Does Georgetown want DMV students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the above discussion for the DMV area? I've lived in several major cities and I have to say that Georgetown is known by the most people. They might have heard of UVA. Might. William and Mary would need some explaining. Maryland is seen as just another large state school such as is found in every state.

Just stop it. It's the University of Virginia. They may not know of its academic reputation, but they know the damn school. It won the NCAA basketball championship just a couple years ago. Nearly 50,000 students applied to UVA this year, the vast majority from out of state. If you truly lived in a "major" city -- NYC, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Houston, you name it -- people know the damned school.

Agree. I live in a different region of country, our town public is always one of top 3 in state, and twice in last 10 years the valedictorian has gone to UVA. It’s national reputation is pretty solid I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the thing.

Hopkins and Georgetown are ranked ahead of UVA in US news. UMD is ranked ahead of UVA in every difficult major, every world university ranking, dominates in research spending and has more national championships, Nobel/Emmy/academy award/Pulitzer/fields medal alumni than all Virginia schools put together. USNA is so much more important than UVA that it’s pitiful.
The North side of the river is dominant in higher education.

Georgetown is ranked 23. UVA is ranked 26. UMD is ranked 58. UVA's rank is the same as Carnegie Mellon's. UMD's is the same as Syracuse's. UVA"s reputation ranking by US News is 18th, tied with Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon and Rice and ahead of Georgetown, UCLA and Wash U. UMD is 43rd in this ranking, tied with UC-Irvine and Case Western.

Says it all.

UMD is ranked in the 50's for world reputation rankings (both USNews and ARWU) while UVA is >100 for both (ranked "150-200" by ARWU).

Based entirely on research output. Has nothing to do with undergraduate reputation and little to do with US reputation.

1. Research output is entirely why schools like MIT, Harvard, Caltech, Stanford et. al. and routinely considered among the best. To argue research has nothing to do with undergraduate reputation is utterly ignorant.

2. The USNews global rankings is based on world reputation, not research output. Meaning they surveyed academics from across the world. Which is much better than what the USNews Reputation Ranking does, surveying American high school counselors (lmao)

The University of Washington has higher research output than MIT, Harvard, Caltech, or Stanford. Does your theory hold up there?

Yes, University of Washington is well-recognized for being a great university. But I find it interesting how you point out one supposed discrepancy but not the rest of the list, which matches extremely well with academic prestige of the university among industry and graduate schools.

Does it? Is Johns Hopkins the most prestigious U.S. university? Or does it happen to have a large government facility located in Laurel Maryland associated with it for reporting purposes? Is Michigan the second most prestigious U.S. university or is it just really big and have a huge focus on research? Are 17 schools more important than MIT or do they just happen to have medical schools/medical centers attached to them while MIT does not? Likewise, are 67 schools more prestigious and influential than Princeton or again, are they ranked higher solely because almost all of them have medical schools/medical centers attached to them while Princeton does not?

Johns Hopkins is unironically prestigious specifically because of its top medical research school, which has absolutely nothing to do with undergraduate education. Washington University at St. Louis is another university that has become very academically reputed due to its stellar medical school.

So yes, research brings lay prestige. Compare Purdue to University of Georgia, which has more lay prestige, despite Georgia being ranked higher?

Why is UNC so well reputed, despite being 90% in-state students? Research output.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the bottom line. There's the Ivy League, Stanford, Caltech, MIT and Chicago and maybe -- maybe -- Duke and Northwestern. After that there are about 15 or 20 big schools where going to one is just as good as going to another. Included among these schools are a half-dozen state schools: Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, UNC and William & Mary. Georgetown is one of these. So if you're living in NOVA, why in the world would you pay more than double for Georgetown? If you want to go into business or engineering, obviously UVA is better, and if you want to major in the humanities or social sciences and go to grad or law school no school you apply to is going to think either school is any better than the other. Georgetown's only standout is its school of foreign service, but that's a niche program.

You are high if you think Georgetown and W&M have the same recognition nationally

Or internationally.

Just stop. Neither is well known internationally, and nobody cares anyway.

This is simply not true. Georgetown is pretty well known internationally, far more than UVA and W&M (which is not even well known regionally)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the above discussion for the DMV area? I've lived in several major cities and I have to say that Georgetown is known by the most people. They might have heard of UVA. Might. William and Mary would need some explaining. Maryland is seen as just another large state school such as is found in every state.

Just stop it. It's the University of Virginia. They may not know of its academic reputation, but they know the damn school. It won the NCAA basketball championship just a couple years ago. Nearly 50,000 students applied to UVA this year, the vast majority from out of state. If you truly lived in a "major" city -- NYC, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Houston, you name it -- people know the damned school.

I mean, I'm sure they know of it the same way every knows of "University of X". Pretty sure every state in the country as a "University of X".

The question is whether they think its equivalent to a Geogetown, or whether its just another state flagship i.e. University of Georgia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the above discussion for the DMV area? I've lived in several major cities and I have to say that Georgetown is known by the most people. They might have heard of UVA. Might. William and Mary would need some explaining. Maryland is seen as just another large state school such as is found in every state.

Just stop it. It's the University of Virginia. They may not know of its academic reputation, but they know the damn school. It won the NCAA basketball championship just a couple years ago. Nearly 50,000 students applied to UVA this year, the vast majority from out of state. If you truly lived in a "major" city -- NYC, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Houston, you name it -- people know the damned school.

I mean, I'm sure they know of it the same way every knows of "University of X". Pretty sure every state in the country as a "University of X".

The question is whether they think its equivalent to a Geogetown, or whether its just another state flagship i.e. University of Georgia.

OK. Name the "major cities" you lived in and what kind of jobs you had. This is an anonymous board. No one will know you. Because I guarantee you that anyone in the cities I just named with professional jobs requiring a high degree of education will know UVA's reputation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the above discussion for the DMV area? I've lived in several major cities and I have to say that Georgetown is known by the most people. They might have heard of UVA. Might. William and Mary would need some explaining. Maryland is seen as just another large state school such as is found in every state.

Just stop it. It's the University of Virginia. They may not know of its academic reputation, but they know the damn school. It won the NCAA basketball championship just a couple years ago. Nearly 50,000 students applied to UVA this year, the vast majority from out of state. If you truly lived in a "major" city -- NYC, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Houston, you name it -- people know the damned school.

Agree. I live in a different region of country, our town public is always one of top 3 in state, and twice in last 10 years the valedictorian has gone to UVA. It’s national reputation is pretty solid I think.

The difference is that away from valedictorians and top public schools, Georgetown is better known.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread certainly devolved. That said, a teacher friend of mine in Virginia mentioned once that her (at a very good public school) students had a really hard time getting in to Georgetown. She said that the outcomes were sometimes quite strange to in terms of cross-admits. Perhaps it’s the premium placed on Catholic or Jesuit school students? Regardless, I think there’s something behind the notion that they don’t really seek out DMV kids.

They don't actively seek out Nova kids because they would have to throw aid at them to get them to attend Georgetown rather than UVA or William & Mary.

UVA and Georgetown are both need-blind, meet-full-need. For low-income families, it’s like a wash, as the EFC is unlikely to come close even to UVA in-state tuition; for middle-class and higher income families, UVA’s lower in-state cost would obviously be a factor.

Nova kids are all in-state for UVA and William & Mary. For in-state students, average net price is lowest at William & Mary for incomes of $0 to $110K and UVA is lowest for incomes over $110K. Georgetown is higher at all incomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the above discussion for the DMV area? I've lived in several major cities and I have to say that Georgetown is known by the most people. They might have heard of UVA. Might. William and Mary would need some explaining. Maryland is seen as just another large state school such as is found in every state.

Just stop it. It's the University of Virginia. They may not know of its academic reputation, but they know the damn school. It won the NCAA basketball championship just a couple years ago. Nearly 50,000 students applied to UVA this year, the vast majority from out of state. If you truly lived in a "major" city -- NYC, Chicago, LA, San Francisco, Houston, you name it -- people know the damned school.

Agree. I live in a different region of country, our town public is always one of top 3 in state, and twice in last 10 years the valedictorian has gone to UVA. It’s national reputation is pretty solid I think.

The difference is that away from valedictorians and top public schools, Georgetown is better known.

Huh? You're not making any sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the thing.

Hopkins and Georgetown are ranked ahead of UVA in US news. UMD is ranked ahead of UVA in every difficult major, every world university ranking, dominates in research spending and has more national championships, Nobel/Emmy/academy award/Pulitzer/fields medal alumni than all Virginia schools put together. USNA is so much more important than UVA that it’s pitiful.
The North side of the river is dominant in higher education.

Georgetown is ranked 23. UVA is ranked 26. UMD is ranked 58. UVA's rank is the same as Carnegie Mellon's. UMD's is the same as Syracuse's. UVA"s reputation ranking by US News is 18th, tied with Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon and Rice and ahead of Georgetown, UCLA and Wash U. UMD is 43rd in this ranking, tied with UC-Irvine and Case Western.

Says it all.

UMD is ranked in the 50's for world reputation rankings (both USNews and ARWU) while UVA is >100 for both (ranked "150-200" by ARWU).

Based entirely on research output. Has nothing to do with undergraduate reputation and little to do with US reputation.

1. Research output is entirely why schools like MIT, Harvard, Caltech, Stanford et. al. and routinely considered among the best. To argue research has nothing to do with undergraduate reputation is utterly ignorant.

2. The USNews global rankings is based on world reputation, not research output. Meaning they surveyed academics from across the world. Which is much better than what the USNews Reputation Ranking does, surveying American high school counselors (lmao)

The University of Washington has higher research output than MIT, Harvard, Caltech, or Stanford. Does your theory hold up there?

Yes, University of Washington is well-recognized for being a great university. But I find it interesting how you point out one supposed discrepancy but not the rest of the list, which matches extremely well with academic prestige of the university among industry and graduate schools.

Does it? Is Johns Hopkins the most prestigious U.S. university? Or does it happen to have a large government facility located in Laurel Maryland associated with it for reporting purposes? Is Michigan the second most prestigious U.S. university or is it just really big and have a huge focus on research? Are 17 schools more important than MIT or do they just happen to have medical schools/medical centers attached to them while MIT does not? Likewise, are 67 schools more prestigious and influential than Princeton or again, are they ranked higher solely because almost all of them have medical schools/medical centers attached to them while Princeton does not?

Johns Hopkins is unironically prestigious specifically because of its top medical research school, which has absolutely nothing to do with undergraduate education. Washington University at St. Louis is another university that has become very academically reputed due to its stellar medical school.

So yes, research brings lay prestige. Compare Purdue to University of Georgia, which has more lay prestige, despite Georgia being ranked higher?

Why is UNC so well reputed, despite being 90% in-state students? Research output.

Hopkins is top in research because of the Applied Physics Laboratory, not because of the medical school (not to say the medical school doesn't do a lot of research). Over 60% of its total comes through the Applied Physics Lab.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the bottom line. There's the Ivy League, Stanford, Caltech, MIT and Chicago and maybe -- maybe -- Duke and Northwestern. After that there are about 15 or 20 big schools where going to one is just as good as going to another. Included among these schools are a half-dozen state schools: Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, UNC and William & Mary. Georgetown is one of these. So if you're living in NOVA, why in the world would you pay more than double for Georgetown? If you want to go into business or engineering, obviously UVA is better, and if you want to major in the humanities or social sciences and go to grad or law school no school you apply to is going to think either school is any better than the other. Georgetown's only standout is its school of foreign service, but that's a niche program.

You are high if you think Georgetown and W&M have the same recognition nationally

Or internationally.

Just stop. Neither is well known internationally, and nobody cares anyway.

This is simply not true. Georgetown is pretty well known internationally, far more than UVA and W&M (which is not even well known regionally)

I have lived as an expat for many years. I can't say I recall any of them being mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the bottom line. There's the Ivy League, Stanford, Caltech, MIT and Chicago and maybe -- maybe -- Duke and Northwestern. After that there are about 15 or 20 big schools where going to one is just as good as going to another. Included among these schools are a half-dozen state schools: Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, UNC and William & Mary. Georgetown is one of these. So if you're living in NOVA, why in the world would you pay more than double for Georgetown? If you want to go into business or engineering, obviously UVA is better, and if you want to major in the humanities or social sciences and go to grad or law school no school you apply to is going to think either school is any better than the other. Georgetown's only standout is its school of foreign service, but that's a niche program.

You are high if you think Georgetown and W&M have the same recognition nationally

Or internationally.

Just stop. Neither is well known internationally, and nobody cares anyway.

This is simply not true. Georgetown is pretty well known internationally, far more than UVA and W&M (which is not even well known regionally)

I have lived as an expat for many years. I can't say I recall any of them being mentioned.

Which, of course, means nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the bottom line. There's the Ivy League, Stanford, Caltech, MIT and Chicago and maybe -- maybe -- Duke and Northwestern. After that there are about 15 or 20 big schools where going to one is just as good as going to another. Included among these schools are a half-dozen state schools: Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, UNC and William & Mary. Georgetown is one of these. So if you're living in NOVA, why in the world would you pay more than double for Georgetown? If you want to go into business or engineering, obviously UVA is better, and if you want to major in the humanities or social sciences and go to grad or law school no school you apply to is going to think either school is any better than the other. Georgetown's only standout is its school of foreign service, but that's a niche program.

You are high if you think Georgetown and W&M have the same recognition nationally

Or internationally.

Just stop. Neither is well known internationally, and nobody cares anyway.

This is simply not true. Georgetown is pretty well known internationally, far more than UVA and W&M (which is not even well known regionally)

I have lived as an expat for many years. I can't say I recall any of them being mentioned.

Which, of course, means nothing.

It is one more data point than you provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the thing.

Hopkins and Georgetown are ranked ahead of UVA in US news. UMD is ranked ahead of UVA in every difficult major, every world university ranking, dominates in research spending and has more national championships, Nobel/Emmy/academy award/Pulitzer/fields medal alumni than all Virginia schools put together. USNA is so much more important than UVA that it’s pitiful.
The North side of the river is dominant in higher education.

Georgetown is ranked 23. UVA is ranked 26. UMD is ranked 58. UVA's rank is the same as Carnegie Mellon's. UMD's is the same as Syracuse's. UVA"s reputation ranking by US News is 18th, tied with Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon and Rice and ahead of Georgetown, UCLA and Wash U. UMD is 43rd in this ranking, tied with UC-Irvine and Case Western.

Says it all.

UMD is ranked in the 50's for world reputation rankings (both USNews and ARWU) while UVA is >100 for both (ranked "150-200" by ARWU).

Based entirely on research output. Has nothing to do with undergraduate reputation and little to do with US reputation.

1. Research output is entirely why schools like MIT, Harvard, Caltech, Stanford et. al. and routinely considered among the best. To argue research has nothing to do with undergraduate reputation is utterly ignorant.

2. The USNews global rankings is based on world reputation, not research output. Meaning they surveyed academics from across the world. Which is much better than what the USNews Reputation Ranking does, surveying American high school counselors (lmao)

The University of Washington has higher research output than MIT, Harvard, Caltech, or Stanford. Does your theory hold up there?

Yes, University of Washington is well-recognized for being a great university. But I find it interesting how you point out one supposed discrepancy but not the rest of the list, which matches extremely well with academic prestige of the university among industry and graduate schools.

Does it? Is Johns Hopkins the most prestigious U.S. university? Or does it happen to have a large government facility located in Laurel Maryland associated with it for reporting purposes? Is Michigan the second most prestigious U.S. university or is it just really big and have a huge focus on research? Are 17 schools more important than MIT or do they just happen to have medical schools/medical centers attached to them while MIT does not? Likewise, are 67 schools more prestigious and influential than Princeton or again, are they ranked higher solely because almost all of them have medical schools/medical centers attached to them while Princeton does not?

Johns Hopkins is unironically prestigious specifically because of its top medical research school, which has absolutely nothing to do with undergraduate education. Washington University at St. Louis is another university that has become very academically reputed due to its stellar medical school.

So yes, research brings lay prestige. Compare Purdue to University of Georgia, which has more lay prestige, despite Georgia being ranked higher?

Why is UNC so well reputed, despite being 90% in-state students? Research output.

Hopkins is top in research because of the Applied Physics Laboratory, not because of the medical school (not to say the medical school doesn't do a lot of research). Over 60% of its total comes through the Applied Physics Lab.

No, Hopkins is top in research because of its top medical research school and APL. The main reason for its prestige among undergraduates though, is its top medical research school.

[Anonymous]

But the point remains that Hopkins is top in research but far from the top in prestige.

[Anonymous]

I think we can all agree that Georgetown is one of the most overrated schools.