At a loss with classroom behavior issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked in elementary self-contained classes in a few different districts and I have seen increasingly more severe behavioral issues over that last few years. My current cross-cat class has more challenging behaviors that the Emotional/Behavioral disorders class I worked in 7 years ago

Curious. Do you have any idea why? I think it is because more people blame bad behavior on "disabilities." I don't question that some kids have disabilities which contribute to bad behavior, but I think some (most?) are due to poor parenting.

I’m not the PP but this article gives a picture of what’s going on.

https://www.penbaypilot.com/article/problems-are-bigger-school-midcoast-educators-tackle-increase-dysregulated-behavior/128920?fbclid=IwAR2UgFspWhYDUTvSo6n0j8-UOVLcmxmnWoO7zWPVTW43-uaIC2mRNzFlycA

[Anonymous]

There are so many more kids with autism that have been out of control at home and they come to school and cannot function. Lots of parents have recognized their child’s need for services for autism and have made that happen, but lots haven’t. Parents now refuse to cooperate with schools and admin backs down. They don’t want complaints going over their heads.

Back in the mid 1980s in FCPS we had self-contained LD classrooms, where the ten kids or so in upper and lower elementary had a calm setting to work on core academics with scaffolded instruction, breaks, and targeted help with behavior. They mainstreamed as they were able to for academics and joined in specials with their grade. Each class had a special ed teacher and at least one IA. Then they decided to throw them all in gen ed with pull out and push in services, and those kids that had viewed their self-contained rooms as safe places to learn were overwhelmed in large settings and acted out. All kids cannot be comfortable in a large group, and not providing what they need in unconscionable, to me. The current trend of the workshop model is too loud, busy, and distracting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have worked in elementary self-contained classes in a few different districts and I have seen increasingly more severe behavioral issues over that last few years. My current cross-cat class has more challenging behaviors that the Emotional/Behavioral disorders class I worked in 7 years ago

Why these increases in behavioral issues??

[Anonymous]

THere are a lot of reasons but in my school, it is lack of parenting in the home and kids growing up on screens. Kids who haven’t been given limits and structure at home often don’t react well to them at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was instructed to not leave specific notes about student X in my sub plans because his parents believe he is being targeted by staff. So I had to make a generic note to watch students near the door. The last time I was out, student x intentionally shut a classmate’s hand in the door —something he has attempted with other kids before. Now the injured kid’s parents are irate that the sub let it happen.

Here is the crux of the issue. The sub didn’t “let” anything happen. The child purposely shut the door on someone’s else’s hand. Blame is misplaced in schools these days.

So, I have to ask--how is that kid's IEP formulated to address this behavior, given that you know it has been attempted with other kids? And would that IEP, as written, have imposed any requirements on whoever was working in the classroom that day as the classroom teacher? And if so, how were those requirements communicated or otherwise addressed re: having a sub?

Where did she mention that the kid had an IEP?

Point taken--but the behavior would indicate an obligation under child find based on the info in the post, I would say

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads make me so angry and rage cry. I've had a crap day and feel like slapping some of these posters.

My kid has some of these issues. The classroom has been cleared because of him. Do you know what we had to do in order to get him an appropriate placement where he is thriving? I'll tell you:

Thousands upon thousands of dollars of therapy, not including the amount of lost work/salary for me. I don't work anymore because it's too hard to manage.

At least 6 meetings with school a year, daily phone calls, IEP meetings, IEP revisions, FBAs/BIPs, etc. private testing. Daily phone call complaints from incompetent teachers, psychologists who told me "you don't seem to care about your kid (she got fired)," and a whole host of garbage comments from other parents.

Advocate and lawyer to help us through the process.
I had to have therapists who were baiting my child removed from the process after they admitted to baiting him to acting out.

More advocate and lawyer costs to get him into his correct placement, where he's thriving and doing very well.

And he's only in second grade. That's right, all of this and he's 7. This is a lifelong process for us. We'll do it again next year, and the year after, and the year after.

You know what I have to be able to do this: Time and Money. A lot of people don't have time and money to do these things. People can't quit their jobs to go to therapy. People can't pay lawyers and advocates to help them. We can and we're fortunate. I go to Special Ed group meetings near me and people are begging for help--they can't afford it, can't take time off, have trauma in their lives, etc.

Yes, some people ignore the problems until it's too late, or don't want their kid labeled, but I really believe that most people are doing the best they can, and, in some cases, they're relying on the school to help them through the process. You can't rely on them. You need need outside help and assistance and a lot of people can't afford that.

I don't want your kid to get his hand slammed in the door, or to have to evacuate the classroom. IT's not fair to any of the kids. But I also hate that this topic comes up once a week on this site and people don't seem to understand the other side of it. The lack of empathy for people on these threads is disgusting.

So I have an idea for you: Go use your voice to vote for candidates that support all aspects of public education, voice your concerns to your school board and principals, work for additional funding for schools, stop bitching about property taxes on your million dollar homes and then complain that we don't have enough aides for the SN kids. Stop thinking that parents aren't doing the best they can. Find some empathy for people who don't fit in the molds. Life is hard enough.

I have empathy and I feel very badly for you, I really do, but my child has started seeing tutors to help with reading and math because she's basically not being taught these subjects due to being in a class with not one, but two disruptive students and only one teacher and one aide. On top of that, all the attention spent on those kids means that other children are acting up more than normal and my child has a classmate constantly picking on and bothering her, and it has seriously impacted her ability to learn, her level of anxiety, and her love of school. We're also considering sending her to a psychologist to help with the anxiety issues. And yes, I've complained and documented and complained some more but apparently there's nothing the school can do for my child who was doing GREAT for two years before being put in this class with children the teachers can't handle. I really don't think this is fair to my child either, and has potentially long-term impacts on my child's mental health and well-being. You are not the ONLY one suffering.

This has nothing to do with one child. Your child is having tutors as they are struggling and probably also need assessed. Your child having anxiety probably is genetic or also something else going on. If its that bad ,send her to private. You don't get that these parents are doing the best they can and many are not equip to handle these indues and honestly, it doesn't sound like you can if you have to get tutors for a young child vs. working with them AND you are ignoring your child mental health.

No wonder your child has behavioral issues, his mom is a bully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m the teacher who was told to be vague in the note to the sub. I am really not looking forward to Tuesday. We are supposed to do a class activity with scissors. It’s from our curriculum and one of those experiences that basically every student does at this grade. Yesterday, my AP told me that I could not problem-solve either of two logical solutions:
A) send Larlo to another class with an alternative lesson.
B) do an alternative lesson with the entire class.

No. We have to give him “the opportunity to make mistakes and learn from them.”

I requested a second adult be present. No word yet.

Hi, I'm also a teacher. I have two pieces of advice for you. 1) Document, in writing, your concern for the safety of the student and the entire class. Specifically, write the words, "I feel unsafe. I am afraid the safety of my students is in jeopardy." (assuming you do feel this way) Send the email to the principal, the superintendent and your union president and to the school board. 2) If ANYTHING happens, please, please, please SUE THE CRAP OUT OF YOUR DISTRICT. They are obligated to provide you with a safe working environment. Period. That could mean more support for said student, it could mean an alternative lesson, it could mean an alternative placement, it could mean a 1:1 aide, it could mean an emergency psych hold for the child or any number of other things.
I have 100% sympathy for the parents of children who are violent or disruptive and in general, I do NOT blame them. They are doing the best they can for their incredibly challenging children. I cannot imagine living 24/7 with such a kid. The mental health stress placed on the parents is just enormous. But it is NOT my job or your job to worry about that. It IS my job and your job to teach students, including those with behavior issues. However, when the issues threaten safety, it is NO LONGER OUR JOB as gen ed teachers. It just isn't. I had a kid that harmed other children and harmed staff many, many times this year. It took me going to the superintendent and putting it in writing that I felt unsafe and I was worried about the safety of the other kids, along with an incredible principal, to get the kid outplaced.

I have simply come to the point where I am ready to resign and take legal action against my district in the future if I am placed in a similar situation. I'm a gen ed teacher and have had my share of hard kids. There are hard kids and then there are UNSAFE kids. I can deal with hard kids. I refuse to deal, in a gen ed room, with unsafe kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These threads make me so angry and rage cry. I've had a crap day and feel like slapping some of these posters.

My kid has some of these issues. The classroom has been cleared because of him. Do you know what we had to do in order to get him an appropriate placement where he is thriving? I'll tell you:

Thousands upon thousands of dollars of therapy, not including the amount of lost work/salary for me. I don't work anymore because it's too hard to manage.

At least 6 meetings with school a year, daily phone calls, IEP meetings, IEP revisions, FBAs/BIPs, etc. private testing. Daily phone call complaints from incompetent teachers, psychologists who told me "you don't seem to care about your kid (she got fired)," and a whole host of garbage comments from other parents.

Advocate and lawyer to help us through the process.
I had to have therapists who were baiting my child removed from the process after they admitted to baiting him to acting out.

More advocate and lawyer costs to get him into his correct placement, where he's thriving and doing very well.

And he's only in second grade. That's right, all of this and he's 7. This is a lifelong process for us. We'll do it again next year, and the year after, and the year after.

You know what I have to be able to do this: Time and Money. A lot of people don't have time and money to do these things. People can't quit their jobs to go to therapy. People can't pay lawyers and advocates to help them. We can and we're fortunate. I go to Special Ed group meetings near me and people are begging for help--they can't afford it, can't take time off, have trauma in their lives, etc.

Yes, some people ignore the problems until it's too late, or don't want their kid labeled, but I really believe that most people are doing the best they can, and, in some cases, they're relying on the school to help them through the process. You can't rely on them. You need need outside help and assistance and a lot of people can't afford that.

I don't want your kid to get his hand slammed in the door, or to have to evacuate the classroom. IT's not fair to any of the kids. But I also hate that this topic comes up once a week on this site and people don't seem to understand the other side of it. The lack of empathy for people on these threads is disgusting.

So I have an idea for you: Go use your voice to vote for candidates that support all aspects of public education, voice your concerns to your school board and principals, work for additional funding for schools, stop bitching about property taxes on your million dollar homes and then complain that we don't have enough aides for the SN kids. Stop thinking that parents aren't doing the best they can. Find some empathy for people who don't fit in the molds. Life is hard enough.

I have empathy and I feel very badly for you, I really do, but my child has started seeing tutors to help with reading and math because she's basically not being taught these subjects due to being in a class with not one, but two disruptive students and only one teacher and one aide. On top of that, all the attention spent on those kids means that other children are acting up more than normal and my child has a classmate constantly picking on and bothering her, and it has seriously impacted her ability to learn, her level of anxiety, and her love of school. We're also considering sending her to a psychologist to help with the anxiety issues. And yes, I've complained and documented and complained some more but apparently there's nothing the school can do for my child who was doing GREAT for two years before being put in this class with children the teachers can't handle. I really don't think this is fair to my child either, and has potentially long-term impacts on my child's mental health and well-being. You are not the ONLY one suffering.

This has nothing to do with one child. Your child is having tutors as they are struggling and probably also need assessed. Your child having anxiety probably is genetic or also something else going on. If its that bad ,send her to private. You don't get that these parents are doing the best they can and many are not equip to handle these indues and honestly, it doesn't sound like you can if you have to get tutors for a young child vs. working with them AND you are ignoring your child mental health.

Two sides to this and both have legitimate points of view. My child was in a class that was evacuated every few weeks in two different grades. I never even heard about it from her but a few parents mentioned it to me and I saw it happen once while volunteering. Not one of the kids seemed visibly upset. The evacuation was really quick and they just went to another classroom to continue the lesson. This was early elementary so it gave the kids a movement break and they continued with their lesson and were moved back into their classroom in about 5 minutes after another adult was able to come down and help the child who was upset.

DD has a friend with anxiety, and, her parents discovered a few years later, a learning disability. This situation was very difficult for her and the parents initially were in denial and blamed their DD's not being able to learn on the upset child. They did move her to a different classroom but found she was still struggling academically. This was about HER issue, not the other child's issue.

Public school is chaotic my friend and your child will encounter behavioral issues throughout K-12 so if this is making your child struggle you do have a right to bring it up with the administration but just know most students do fine with these disruptions.

Oh, ok, you're absolutely right, MY CHILD is the one who has problems, not PP's. I have the feeling that next year, when DD is in a class full of peers and not constantly evacuated from class and doesn't have shit thrown at her multiple times a week, she'll be doing a lot better. Have YOU ever had a desk thrown at you when you were at work? Multiple times? Threatened with scissors and sharp pencils??? You'd probably be anxious in that case, too. You and PP are real peaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked in elementary self-contained classes in a few different districts and I have seen increasingly more severe behavioral issues over that last few years. My current cross-cat class has more challenging behaviors that the Emotional/Behavioral disorders class I worked in 7 years ago

Why these increases in behavioral issues??

There is an elephant in the room......no one wants to acknowledge the epidemic and everyone tiptoes around it.

We talk about the symptoms. We talk about the therapies. We talk about the medications. We talk about the schools "not doing enough". But we don't talk about the epidemic that I predict will cripple the country in more ways than one in the coming decades.



An entire generation is sick. Mentally and physically. Yet most people don't see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was instructed to not leave specific notes about student X in my sub plans because his parents believe he is being targeted by staff. So I had to make a generic note to watch students near the door. The last time I was out, student x intentionally shut a classmate’s hand in the door —something he has attempted with other kids before. Now the injured kid’s parents are irate that the sub let it happen.

Here is the crux of the issue. The sub didn’t “let” anything happen. The child purposely shut the door on someone’s else’s hand. Blame is misplaced in schools these days.

So, I have to ask--how is that kid's IEP formulated to address this behavior, given that you know it has been attempted with other kids? And would that IEP, as written, have imposed any requirements on whoever was working in the classroom that day as the classroom teacher? And if so, how were those requirements communicated or otherwise addressed re: having a sub?

Where did she mention that the kid had an IEP?

Point taken--but the behavior would indicate an obligation under child find based on the info in the post, I would say

I take it you don't have experience working in education. Not every student with significant behavioral issues will get an IEP. Most will go through the EMT process at some point, but that doesn't necessarily mean it ends in an IEP. There is a student I'm thinking of who is currently at my school. He has severe behavioral issues, have been through the EMT process and mom hasn't shown up to any of the meetings. We got her to have a phone conference at one. We have a therapist based at our school and we recommended that this student start seeing the therapist. Mom said OK but then wouldn't actually send in the paper that would allow the therapist to meet with him. Finally an administrator went to their house at a time we figured mom would be home and mom signed the paper. The child has been seeing the therapist for months, but there's been no positive change. In fact, his behavior is getting worse.

When there is a sub admin wants us to basically allow him to do whatever he wants to avoid a blowup. He roams the hallways and causes disruptions in other rooms but we have to allow it. We just have to have the sub notify the office that he's left the room and then just let it be. He has physically harmed both other students and other teachers, not to mention the verbal abuse we all have to endure daily. We are collecting an enormous amount of data and documenting every event on an ABC chart (antecedent/behavior/consequence). The issue is that we're not allowed to administer any type of consequence since we're a PBIS school. Even if we get to the point where it's determined that he qualifies for an IEP, I'm not confident it will help this child, and his behavior is already allowed by admin (which he knows so he knows he can keep pushing the envelope) so giving him further protection from an IEP will only be detrimental to himself and others. An IEP is not a magical piece of paper that turns an emotionally dysregulated child into an emotionally regulated child when there are so many outside factors beyond our control. I know that won't be a popular opinion but it's mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:THere are a lot of reasons but in my school, it is lack of parenting in the home and kids growing up on screens. Kids who haven’t been given limits and structure at home often don’t react well to them at school.

And the school systems are prohibiting consequences. We have "restorative justice" where a student does a Community Circle to be welcomed back into the community. There is no apology, no consequence, no nothing. If the teacher says anything then it is the teacher who is the problem. These children with emotional and behavioral problems haven't had limits and structures at home. Then they get to school where they also don't have limits and structures because administrators are worried about upsetting a parent. And, frankly, parents of the other kids are letting all these dingbat adults get away with not handling the situation appropriately.

Parents, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE stand up for your child's right to be educated in an environment without fear and without constant disruption. ADVOCATE FOR YOUR CHILD! It is not fair that 1-5% of the children in a school are wreaking havoc over the rest of the school. YOUR CHILD DESERVES BETTER!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked in elementary self-contained classes in a few different districts and I have seen increasingly more severe behavioral issues over that last few years. My current cross-cat class has more challenging behaviors that the Emotional/Behavioral disorders class I worked in 7 years ago

Why these increases in behavioral issues??

There is an elephant in the room......no one wants to acknowledge the epidemic and everyone tiptoes around it.

We talk about the symptoms. We talk about the therapies. We talk about the medications. We talk about the schools "not doing enough". But we don't talk about the epidemic that I predict will cripple the country in more ways than one in the coming decades.



An entire generation is sick. Mentally and physically. Yet most people don't see.

This. So, so much this. This country is going down. We're poisoning our kids and THE KIDS ARE NOT ALRIGHT.

I don't know when people will wake up. Probably when it's too late. It's probably already too late. I'm guessing the next generation of kids will be pretty much infertile. And yet people are so blind and arrogant and in denial. It's tragic.

[Anonymous]

These two posts do t name the “epidemic” to which hey refer... what is the epidemic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These two posts do t name the “epidemic” to which hey refer... what is the epidemic?

Sounds like they mean mental illness...but they’re being very drama queeny about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These two posts do t name the “epidemic” to which hey refer... what is the epidemic?

Sounds like they mean mental illness...but they’re being very drama queeny about it.

I think they are antivaxxers. See the infertility reference.