Excessively dependent mother still completely helpless months after dad's death

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your mother sounds a lot like my MIL. My FIL is still alive and incredibly capable despite being in his late 80s. He does every.single.thing for her, even sleeps on the floor at her command because she won't have him in the same bed or in a separate room. But even he is (FINALLY!) starting to get fed up and it's not pretty.

Wait, what? Your FIL sleeps on the floor? WTF? Why the heck does he agree to that?? At the very least why not move two beds into the bedroom? I would LOVE you to start your own thread and talk more about what’s going on there and what the dynamics are!! You said he’s starting to get fed up? What’s happening and what’s he doing?? How do you and your spouse deal with it all?

OP, you can get aides for $25/hour or less. I’m curious, and sorry if you already said, but what’s your own life like? Partner, kids, friends, hobbies, etc.? You are in a very tough position and you have my sympathy. I posted before but I’ll say it again: you should NOT spend your own retirement money to support your mother. I’m surprised your sister thinks it’s reasonable for you to risk being in a crappy nursing home in sacrifice to your mother’s demands. And at some point the alternate weekends will be too burdensome. Do you all live in the same town?

No, we live in different a different state - my sister 90 minutes away and me an hour away.

Both my sister and I are divorced, and we each have one adult child. We also have friends, but, just speaking for myself, I've been neglectful of my friends these past few months (more so than when my dad was living).

And no, I will not sacrifice my future security by using my own money to keep Mom off Medicaid. I've explained to my sister that other people do the opposite - they transfer money away to their kids to impoverish themselves and GET Medicsid to pay. They don't spend down their own money and then expect their kids to start paying.

To be clear, my mother has not said she wants this. She's not even thinking in terms of running out of money. It's my sister who brought up to me that if Mom runs out, we really should pitch in at that point.

[Anonymous]

OP, I don't have any good advice other than what's already been given but read your post and responses with great interest because we are going through something similar. FIL died two months ago and it's been very hard on my MIL. About 9 months before he died, they had just moved into a senior living community that sounds like your mother's -- very nice community with friendly people, activities, couple meals per day. They had friends already there so they already had a bit of a community there. MIL was the caretaker; FIL was the one who was completely dependent on her (I don't think he knew how to change the channel or operate the dishwasher; though I think he could manage trash). We worried about how he would do if she died; we thought MIL would be fine. She is ok; but all of a sudden she says she is scared of driving (she only drives to local places like the grocery store), she doesn't want to be social (she previously enjoyed getting to know others at her home); she says she can't walk very far (she used to be fairly active). I think it is completely grief and depression. We or other family members visit her every weekend (we live about an hour way), and we're just hoping it gets better. I'd be interested to see how things go with your mom as time goes by; maybe this is a fairly common stage of grief and things improve with time?

[Anonymous]

Also, my sister just called this morning and told me the woman we really need to speak with at the facility is not there today, and we are meeting there tomorrow.

All my mother knows is that my sister is staying one additional day, and I will drive over so the three of us can have lunch. We will then explain to my mother that if she goes back to AL (and this is assuming they'd be willing to take her), she could run out of money and then my sister and I would have to,pay to keep her off Medicaid, risking our own futures. As dependent as she is, she would NOT want that.

We are going to to tell her that we will hire a 3x a week aide. She will then ask why she can't have a FT aide, and we will explain about the Medicaid again.

We will of course NOT have her in the meeting with the staff for additional guidance and suggestions.

And with that, I'm heading out for a few hours. Thanks again for everyone's input.

[Anonymous]

It's too late for you now, OP, but this should have been addressed years ago. I don't say this to castigate you, but more to use your unfortunate circumstance as a lesson for all of us. Just as we have to prepare our kids to one day live without us, we need to bear in mind that older couples may one day be singletons and will have to be able to be able to survive that way. So if we have a parent who knows nothing about their finances, or can't operate any of the household appliances, we should be thinking about helping them gain those skills before it's too late!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would it be $25/hr? If you just want someone to pick up after her Surely you could find that much cheaper.

$25/hour is good. I see horrible elder care whenever I'm at Sibley - there are some real crazy aides who I've seen make their elderly charges cling to walls to walk bc they're too lazy to help them back into the wheelchair for a few feet. It's disgusting. This is not the place to cut costs.

[Anonymous]

My SIL's mom was/is like this however, she has significant health issues, now that she is older they are physical, but she was mentally ill prior. Her dad passed away few years ago and since then mom lived with one dd and now with SIL for the last 6 years at least. She was so clueless at first she would ask her 6 year old grand-kid to feed her while child was hungry and going to school. It sounds like you have the money to throw at the problem I would do that, because if she moves in with you, your life is not your own, nor your kids anymore. It is hell on earth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don't have any good advice other than what's already been given but read your post and responses with great interest because we are going through something similar. FIL died two months ago and it's been very hard on my MIL. About 9 months before he died, they had just moved into a senior living community that sounds like your mother's -- very nice community with friendly people, activities, couple meals per day. They had friends already there so they already had a bit of a community there. MIL was the caretaker; FIL was the one who was completely dependent on her (I don't think he knew how to change the channel or operate the dishwasher; though I think he could manage trash). We worried about how he would do if she died; we thought MIL would be fine. She is ok; but all of a sudden she says she is scared of driving (she only drives to local places like the grocery store), she doesn't want to be social (she previously enjoyed getting to know others at her home); she says she can't walk very far (she used to be fairly active). I think it is completely grief and depression. We or other family members visit her every weekend (we live about an hour way), and we're just hoping it gets better. I'd be interested to see how things go with your mom as time goes by; maybe this is a fairly common stage of grief and things improve with time?

Oh, wow.....very interesting. Quite similar to my situation in many ways. (And here I was concerned that people could identify me with the details: two daughters who lost their father a few months ago, with a dependent mother who moved to a new facility from AL facility two weeks ago. We are probably one in thousands.)

Interesting that even though your MIL was the caretaker, she become so much less capable once your FIL died- despite her relative independence before, due to grief and depression. What scares me more, hearing you say that, is that since my mom was always the dependent one, feeling loved only when she was being "taken care of," she needs that reassurance more than ever. I just hope that she doesn't all of a sudden find it difficult to get dressed, or walk.

Anyway, good luck with your MIL. I'd hope that since she was relatively capable beforehand, once the immediate and strong grief subsides somewhat, she'll get a bit better. Also, a big thing going for her, and that my mom doesn't have (yet) are established friendships with people already in the community.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's too late for you now, OP, but this should have been addressed years ago. I don't say this to castigate you, but more to use your unfortunate circumstance as a lesson for all of us. Just as we have to prepare our kids to one day live without us, we need to bear in mind that older couples may one day be singletons and will have to be able to be able to survive that way. So if we have a parent who knows nothing about their finances, or can't operate any of the household appliances, we should be thinking about helping them gain those skills before it's too late!

You say that because you don't realize the extent of my mother's dependency. We WERE all aware of it (although my sister and I didn't fully appreciate just how bad it was until last year), and my dad, sister, and I all tried to get her to learn some basics (INCLUDING working the TV remote) so that if Dad died first, she wouldn't be completely helpless. She would become enraged, and refuse. We tried for YEARS. The more we pushed, the more she pushed back. It usually ended with her in tears, storming up to her bedroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's too late for you now, OP, but this should have been addressed years ago. I don't say this to castigate you, but more to use your unfortunate circumstance as a lesson for all of us. Just as we have to prepare our kids to one day live without us, we need to bear in mind that older couples may one day be singletons and will have to be able to be able to survive that way. So if we have a parent who knows nothing about their finances, or can't operate any of the household appliances, we should be thinking about helping them gain those skills before it's too late!

You say that because you don't realize the extent of my mother's dependency. We WERE all aware of it (although my sister and I didn't fully appreciate just how bad it was until last year), and my dad, sister, and I all tried to get her to learn some basics (INCLUDING working the TV remote) so that if Dad died first, she wouldn't be completely helpless. She would become enraged, and refuse. We tried for YEARS. The more we pushed, the more she pushed back. It usually ended with her in tears, storming up to her bedroom.

Well if you tried your best then just accept that and move on. You can’t force her to behave the way you want her to behave. You can control your own actions. Don’t take time away from your immediate family or hurt your own finances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don't have any good advice other than what's already been given but read your post and responses with great interest because we are going through something similar. FIL died two months ago and it's been very hard on my MIL. About 9 months before he died, they had just moved into a senior living community that sounds like your mother's -- very nice community with friendly people, activities, couple meals per day. They had friends already there so they already had a bit of a community there. MIL was the caretaker; FIL was the one who was completely dependent on her (I don't think he knew how to change the channel or operate the dishwasher; though I think he could manage trash). We worried about how he would do if she died; we thought MIL would be fine. She is ok; but all of a sudden she says she is scared of driving (she only drives to local places like the grocery store), she doesn't want to be social (she previously enjoyed getting to know others at her home); she says she can't walk very far (she used to be fairly active). I think it is completely grief and depression. We or other family members visit her every weekend (we live about an hour way), and we're just hoping it gets better. I'd be interested to see how things go with your mom as time goes by; maybe this is a fairly common stage of grief and things improve with time?

Oh, wow.....very interesting. Quite similar to my situation in many ways. (And here I was concerned that people could identify me with the details: two daughters who lost their father a few months ago, with a dependent mother who moved to a new facility from AL facility two weeks ago. We are probably one in thousands.)

Interesting that even though your MIL was the caretaker, she become so much less capable once your FIL died- despite her relative independence before, due to grief and depression. What scares me more, hearing you say that, is that since my mom was always the dependent one, feeling loved only when she was being "taken care of," she needs that reassurance more than ever. I just hope that she doesn't all of a sudden find it difficult to get dressed, or walk.

Anyway, good luck with your MIL. I'd hope that since she was relatively capable beforehand, once the immediate and strong grief subsides somewhat, she'll get a bit better. Also, a big thing going for her, and that my mom doesn't have (yet) are established friendships with people already in the community.

Good luck.

Thank you, you too. It is good that MIL has friends there -- a few she knew before and some she was getting to know, but now she says she they're not such good friends or she doesn't like them that much. They're all been kind and friendly and they are very willing to help her adjust FIL's death -- they are all widows (common in a senior home) and have been through it themselves. Again, I think it's grief talking. The bottom line is, when dinner or the activity is over, she goes home to an empty apt and that is just so lonely. That may be part of your mother's problem too. They are not used to it, there has been someone there for 60+ years. It will take time to get used to.

Another thing MIL has been doing is having psychosomatic illnesses where a family member has to rush over to see her, or if she comes visit, she starts "not feeling well" and we have to attend to her and she extends her visit. It's never been anything, again, I think it's grief. It is hard on us, we have two young kids still.

Anyway, good luck to you too. I hope it gets better.

[Anonymous]

OP, your mother may take the position that she will not outlive her finances and therefore the Medicare issue is not a problem. And therefore there is no issue with her returning to the more expensive full-care facility. Be ready to deal with her potential irrational stubbornness along these lines.

[Anonymous]

This is a small thing, but I wonder if she would like an Alexa or Google home device, to ask about the weather, play music, watch videos, etc. I don’t have one myself so I’m not sure what all the functions are, but it would probably work for phone calls too if set up properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a small thing, but I wonder if she would like an Alexa or Google home device, to ask about the weather, play music, watch videos, etc. I don’t have one myself so I’m not sure what all the functions are, but it would probably work for phone calls too if set up properly.

As a much younger widow, I'll just say that I love my Google Home for giving me someone to talk to, and to ask the silly questions I used to bother DH with. "What's the forecast?" "How many teaspoons in a tablespoon?" "Can you turn off the living room light?" "Turn on the TV!" Maybe she'd enjoy having someone to order around again.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know where you live OP but here in DCUM land a good care giver is hard to find and more like $30-50/hr. Friend just went through this with very elderly parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your mother may take the position that she will not outlive her finances and therefore the Medicare issue is not a problem. And therefore there is nco issue with her returning to the more expensive full-care facility. Be ready to deal with her potential irrational stubbornness along these lines.

OP here, and that's a good point. She really has no concept of money. Just the other day she asked me if it's costing her $3000 a month to live there, or $3000 a year. So similarly, she doesn't understand how expensive assisted living is and how she could run out.