justifiable affair?

[Anonymous]

All these "stay married for the kids" and "what about the kids" and "I'd leave, but we have kids" posts make me want to shake some sense into the lot of you.

Your kids are NOT IDIOTS. They know something's up. Moreover, they know you're unhappy with your marriage. They'll see other parents who hug, kiss, hold hands, etc. and recognize that those things don't happen in their home. They will internalize the lack of loving companionship you and your spouse model as "normal marriage" and it will be your damn fault! If your spouse leaves you so devoid of physical companionship and intimacy that you're thinking of cheating, and you're using your KIDS as a reason to stay? Please take a good, long look at what your actions are actually teaching your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is exactly when an affair is justifiable. When you would do your spouse more harm by leaving them then by having a discreet affair. My DW went years with zero desire after the kids were born. I had a couple affairs that allowed me to stay married and sane. She regained her libido, I am faithful now, we are very happy family.

OP, you need to put on your own oxygen mask before assisting others.

You don't get to decide (for someone else!) when an affair is justifiable. Doubt your wife would feel the same.

+1M

I wonder if PPs DW knew the plane was going down, or if PP just stepped out to "stay married and sane" and his DW never even knew. "I am faithful now" Suuuuuure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not that "touching someone else to fill a need" is the problem. It's the willful, deliberate, calculated breach of trust that ruins a relationship

when you get married, there is the marital contract/trust that part of being married is maintaining physical and emotional intimacy. So if one spouse unilaterally decides that this part of the relationship is over, why is that not a willful, deliberate, calculated breach of trust? "I am going to stay married and use my spouse for all the financial and other kinds of supper s/he offers, but I am going to renege on part of the deal, in the knowledge that I can make it very painful for the spouse to leave and place all the blame on them. This is not to say that all partners who cheat do so because they have experienced a breach of trust, but that is sometimes the case.

Cheating is about as justified/unjustified as regularly denying your partner affection. I really dont see why one is sorta kinda excusable but the other is an immediate dealbreaker?

Honestly, I was very black or white on cheating until I was cheated on and then, suddenly it didn't seem as simple as that. There was no lack of intimacy in our marriage but there were other issues that I honestly ignored because, we had 80 percent, so the 20 percent didn't matter IMO, except, it very much mattered to my husband.

Was it hurtful that he cheated? Hell yes. Trust broken, betrayal -- all that. Was it right? No. But after going through that, I am always kind sad for some of the people here who think that people are not going to do stupid things when they feel cornered and caged because of lack of intimacy and they had tried to change or discuss or seek counseling or do all of those things. I mean they have programs for people to go hug babies at hospitals because touch is a NEED and for the person you love to just snatch it away and say "gone forever, deal" seems like a recipe for what is happening all over the place -- people stepping out on their spouses.

The reality is that marriage and monogamy are damn difficult. We let our guard down when we are intimate with someone else. When that person betrays us it unleashes every insecurity possible. I do not think that every cheater is evil. I do not think that every cheating circumstance should mean the end of a marriage. I think a good person can make a mistake. Does that mean the entire relationship should be judged on an incident?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not that "touching someone else to fill a need" is the problem. It's the willful, deliberate, calculated breach of trust that ruins a relationship

when you get married, there is the marital contract/trust that part of being married is maintaining physical and emotional intimacy. So if one spouse unilaterally decides that this part of the relationship is over, why is that not a willful, deliberate, calculated breach of trust? "I am going to stay married and use my spouse for all the financial and other kinds of supper s/he offers, but I am going to renege on part of the deal, in the knowledge that I can make it very painful for the spouse to leave and place all the blame on them. This is not to say that all partners who cheat do so because they have experienced a breach of trust, but that is sometimes the case.

Cheating is about as justified/unjustified as regularly denying your partner affection. I really dont see why one is sorta kinda excusable but the other is an immediate dealbreaker?

Honestly, I was very black or white on cheating until I was cheated on and then, suddenly it didn't seem as simple as that. There was no lack of intimacy in our marriage but there were other issues that I honestly ignored because, we had 80 percent, so the 20 percent didn't matter IMO, except, it very much mattered to my husband.

Was it hurtful that he cheated? Hell yes. Trust broken, betrayal -- all that. Was it right? No. But after going through that, I am always kind sad for some of the people here who think that people are not going to do stupid things when they feel cornered and caged because of lack of intimacy and they had tried to change or discuss or seek counseling or do all of those things. I mean they have programs for people to go hug babies at hospitals because touch is a NEED and for the person you love to just snatch it away and say "gone forever, deal" seems like a recipe for what is happening all over the place -- people stepping out on their spouses.

The reality is that marriage and monogamy are damn difficult. We let our guard down when we are intimate with someone else. When that person betrays us it unleashes every insecurity possible. I do not think that every cheater is evil. I do not think that every cheating circumstance should mean the end of a marriage. I think a good person can make a mistake. Does that mean the entire relationship should be judged on an incident?

I don't think so but clearly plenty of folks calling people whores, sluts, trash, pigs and whatnot in this thread and others about infidelity believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - yes, he's made it clear open marriage would not be ok. it feels stuck in a corner when he can't / won't have sex, isn't open to me fulfilling that elsewhere, and desperately wants to stay married.

i want to stay married also but not retire my sex life at the ripe old age of 31 which he has unilaterally done

You've created a false dilemma where you can't leave him. You're making yourself into a hostage, and putting hte gun in his hand (the variant where he puts the gun to his head and threatens to kill himself if you leave)...and he hasn't done that.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from saying "this does not work for me". Tell him you either want an open relationship or a divorce, and if you know the open relationship is out of the question, then just skip the choice and tell him you want a divorce.

My ex-wife was like this and I wasted 15 prime years of my peak sexuality and looks on someone who really didn't like sex or didn't like having it with me (I think it wasn't personal). Please do not do that. It is not a matter of choosing between your own life or his life. You are responsible for your life and your well-being; he is responsible for his life and well-being. He is choosing the meds over sex with you. It makes no difference whether this is "justifiable" or not - it matters only that this is his choice. He will live without you.

The only instance in which I think an affair is justifiable is if your incapacitated and legally incompetent spouse can no longer take care of themselves and are dependent upon you, and further, can no longer meet your needs, then the kinder thing is to continue to take care of them rather than abandon them in order to get your needs met. If they are unable to meet their end of the relationship, however, they can't expect you to continue to behave as if that part of the relationship is operative.

It's important to note: why they are not meeting your needs is not the question here. It doesn't matter if it's "beyond their control" or not, or if it's somehow a "socially acceptable" choice or not. Marriage is not a suicide pact. People cannot unilaterally drop their end of the bargain and then expect to hold their partner hostage to a promise. Whether or not you only end parts of your relationship (sex) or all of it, is up to people to work out.

The sanctimonious jerks who think it's somehow OK to just force their partner to be celibate because they themselves no longer want sex, and somehow wanting sex is...base or shameful...get really really tiresome. They wouldn't say the same thing about their partner unilaterally ditching any other part of the relationship.

"Marriage is not a suicide pact." I love that. A new favorite quote from this board, along with "Marriage is not a joyless test of endurance."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not that "touching someone else to fill a need" is the problem. It's the willful, deliberate, calculated breach of trust that ruins a relationship

when you get married, there is the marital contract/trust that part of being married is maintaining physical and emotional intimacy. So if one spouse unilaterally decides that this part of the relationship is over, why is that not a willful, deliberate, calculated breach of trust? "I am going to stay married and use my spouse for all the financial and other kinds of supper s/he offers, but I am going to renege on part of the deal, in the knowledge that I can make it very painful for the spouse to leave and place all the blame on them. This is not to say that all partners who cheat do so because they have experienced a breach of trust, but that is sometimes the case.

Cheating is about as justified/unjustified as regularly denying your partner affection. I really dont see why one is sorta kinda excusable but the other is an immediate dealbreaker?

Honestly, I was very black or white on cheating until I was cheated on and then, suddenly it didn't seem as simple as that. There was no lack of intimacy in our marriage but there were other issues that I honestly ignored because, we had 80 percent, so the 20 percent didn't matter IMO, except, it very much mattered to my husband.

Was it hurtful that he cheated? Hell yes. Trust broken, betrayal -- all that. Was it right? No. But after going through that, I am always kind sad for some of the people here who think that people are not going to do stupid things when they feel cornered and caged because of lack of intimacy and they had tried to change or discuss or seek counseling or do all of those things. I mean they have programs for people to go hug babies at hospitals because touch is a NEED and for the person you love to just snatch it away and say "gone forever, deal" seems like a recipe for what is happening all over the place -- people stepping out on their spouses.

The reality is that marriage and monogamy are damn difficult. We let our guard down when we are intimate with someone else. When that person betrays us it unleashes every insecurity possible. I do not think that every cheater is evil. I do not think that every cheating circumstance should mean the end of a marriage. I think a good person can make a mistake. Does that mean the entire relationship should be judged on an incident?

I don't think so but clearly plenty of folks calling people whores, sluts, trash, pigs and whatnot in this thread and others about infidelity believe it.

I called the OP a pig in this or another cheating thread. People make mistakes. We're human. Its the planned and/or habitual cheating along with the self-serving excuses that accompany it that makes me sick. The lack of ownership too i.e. not telling your partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't trip and fall into someone else's pants.

Actually, this is EXACTLY how I ended up in an affair.

[Anonymous]

All affairs I had were justifiable. They told me their bf has dough, but phucks like a virgin, so they must get it somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All these "stay married for the kids" and "what about the kids" and "I'd leave, but we have kids" posts make me want to shake some sense into the lot of you.

Your kids are NOT IDIOTS. They know something's up. Moreover, they know you're unhappy with your marriage. They'll see other parents who hug, kiss, hold hands, etc. and recognize that those things don't happen in their home. They will internalize the lack of loving companionship you and your spouse model as "normal marriage" and it will be your damn fault! If your spouse leaves you so devoid of physical companionship and intimacy that you're thinking of cheating, and you're using your KIDS as a reason to stay? Please take a good, long look at what your actions are actually teaching your children.

Oh please, more of this deluded black and white thinking. Cheating = broken marriage, family, individual nonsense.

I had two affairs that lasted several months. No one had a clue. I was actually slightly more affectionate with my spouse because the affair was a safety valve that took the pressure of the sexual aspect of the marriage that my spouse wouldn't participate in. My kids had no clue either unless they had surveillance on my when I was away on business, which would be pretty sophisticated for a 3 and 5 year old.

For some reason, its soooo impossible for people to believe that a marriage could be working in every respect - love, respect, finance, companionship, child-rearing - but the sex just doesn't happen because one person doesn't feel the desire any more. Or that everyone would be better off if the spouse that wanted more sex just ripped up the family and threw it in the trash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All these "stay married for the kids" and "what about the kids" and "I'd leave, but we have kids" posts make me want to shake some sense into the lot of you.

Your kids are NOT IDIOTS. They know something's up. Moreover, they know you're unhappy with your marriage. They'll see other parents who hug, kiss, hold hands, etc. and recognize that those things don't happen in their home. They will internalize the lack of loving companionship you and your spouse model as "normal marriage" and it will be your damn fault! If your spouse leaves you so devoid of physical companionship and intimacy that you're thinking of cheating, and you're using your KIDS as a reason to stay? Please take a good, long look at what your actions are actually teaching your children.

My kids, yes, absolutely knew. They didn't KNOW what was going on, but they knew (know) that dh and I were off, and that (as my child on announced at the dinner table) my AP (somebody they knew a little) had a crush on me.

Totally depends on ages and the kid. And your ability to hide it, too. Though my kids never said I had a crush on my AP, thank goodness, they have made it clear I need to love my husband more. And have told me not to cheat on dh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't trip and fall into someone else's pants.

Actually, this is EXACTLY how I ended up in an affair.

Was it Jared Fogey before he lost all the weight?

[Anonymous]

Some people who cheat are driven to do so when they otherwise never would because of the desperation they feel at being so cut off and pushed away by their spouse. I think it's easy to say on your wedding day or in good patches "I would NEVER cheat, it's despicable" and then quite another when you have endured years of a spouse telling you they're not interested in sex. It warps your thinking and pushes you to do something you might otherwise never have done or would previously have found abhorrent.

Men and women alike try to push through for their kids, but you can only go without affection and kindness for so long. If your spouse is not providing that, and is actively shutting down every attempt you make at connection, you are going to become desperate and do some things you never though you would. Including affairs. And sorry, for the spouses who put their partners through that wringer, nope, I don't feel sorry for you when you find out that after 2-3 years of you forcing celibacy upon your spouse, they moved on and found a way to deal. I feel actually not one bit of sympathy.

The reason spouses who deny their partners sex get angry when they find out their partner got it somewhere else is because suddenly the peaceful equilibrium that was working for them is in jeopardy. If the spouse is getting sex somewhere else, and they are happier, it's only a matter of time before they realize "I don't have to live in misery for the rest of my life." The spouse who cut off sex but still had a full-time parenting partner and someone to help out around the house and provide financial support suddenly finds out they might lose that because their spouse no longer feels responsible to hold up THOSE ends of the marriage bargain when the other partner has decided they will no longer be living up to theirs. And THAT'S why they get pissed. Suddenly they have to either change their act and be a loving spouse, or lose all the benefits they had in their dutiful spouse.

If OP decides her husband's fragile psyche can't handle divorce and chooses to have an affair, good for her and I don't feel the least bit sorry for the husband. Nor do I feel sorry for any wife who tells her husband sex and affection are off the table and expects him to happily do the dishes and bring in a paycheck and handle bedtime for the kids. Sooner or later, your spouse is going to wake up and realize they can be happier without you and that's your fault and a consequence of YOUR choices.

[Anonymous]

^^^^^ that. Actions have consequences. If you withhold affection and intimacy from your partner they may cheat. That cheating may lead to divorce. But ALL of those actions have consequences not just the cheating. If you are willing to take that risk by cutting them off from your love, from touch etc. then to be all betrayed and hurt when your spouse steps out is just dumb.

[Anonymous]

I'd be out so fast.

[Anonymous]

Why waste years in a bad relationship. Of course you shouldn't cheat, what nonsense. Are you that young or immature?

Get divorced, then find someone you want to be with. Allow him the opportunity to find someone more compatible.