Time to cut Israel off

[Anonymous]

Israel is not a monolithic entity with either pure or evil motives. It's a country riven by increasingly severe differences between pretty reasonable people and a bunch of extremists (wonder which country that reminds me of....hmmm). Anyway, under Likud, the extremists have been gaining the upper hand. I question why we should be in any way involved in this mess considering the only thing we are reaping for our assistance is a great deal of ill will around the world, and the fact that the assurance of US backing reinforces the hand of the extremists.

Has anyone ever heard of the King's Torah?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14168618

Excerpt from the article:

The fifth chapter, entitled "Murder of non-Jews in a time of war" has been widely quoted in the Israeli media. The summary states that "you can kill those who are not supporting or encouraging murder in order to save the lives of Jews".

At one point it suggests that babies can justifiably be killed if it is clear they will grow up to pose a threat.

Israeli police investigating allegations of incitement had asked the rabbis to be voluntarily questioned, but took them into custody when they refused.

Both men have strong support among ideological Jewish settlers in the occupied West Bank, but the wider religious community also took up their cause.

Someone explain to me why supporting this is legitimate and why withdrawing support might not entice these whack-jobs to stop holding the rest of the Israeli population hostage and to come to some sort of accomodation with the countries that surround them.

[Anonymous]

If you do not like your geographic location, then move
Israel is in the middle east. It is not a small country next to Canada.
You can make your neighbor nations sound like the devil people and whine and whine.
But you cannot segragate yourself no matter what you do. Desmond Tutu has repeatedly criticized Israel because of the numerous similarities between what is going on Israel and what was apartheid. And from what I hear has even been blacklisted. Maybe you could try and study what was done in South Africa and learn from them. The last I heard some people from South Africa had been there and came back disillusioned because there is absolutely no dialog between the people/nations. Segragation like never before

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Do you mean if we stop vetoing US resolutions, withdraw our $3 billion in aid, and tell the world that we are adopting a neutral and non-interventionist position in the gulf region? Yes. They would stop saying "death to America".

3 billion in aid?
Why?

[Anonymous]

Just to be clear, The King's Torah is a modern book, not part of the actual Torah, right? It sounds like a book of extremist religious speculation by an fringe portion of the religious right in Israel.

Judging Israel based on this may be akin to judging the US based on the Westboro group.

Note: FWIW, I am a non-Zionist secular Jew who does not claim any special expertise on Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just to be clear, The King's Torah is a modern book, not part of the actual Torah, right? It sounds like a book of extremist religious speculation by an fringe portion of the religious right in Israel.

Judging Israel based on this may be akin to judging the US based on the Westboro group.

Note: FWIW, I am a non-Zionist secular Jew who does not claim any special expertise on Israel.

Yes, it's a modern book, written by two whack-jobs. My point is that whack-jobs like these are holding most Israeli citizens, who are no less reasonable than you and me, hostage to this us vs. them dynamic that promotes division and violence, and that Likud does nothing to stop them. We have enough home-grown whack jobs to deal with right now without abetting other people's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just to be clear, The King's Torah is a modern book, not part of the actual Torah, right? It sounds like a book of extremist religious speculation by an fringe portion of the religious right in Israel.

Judging Israel based on this may be akin to judging the US based on the Westboro group.

Note: FWIW, I am a non-Zionist secular Jew who does not claim any special expertise on Israel.

Yes, it's a modern book, written by two whack-jobs. My point is that whack-jobs like these are holding most Israeli citizens, who are no less reasonable than you and me, hostage to this us vs. them dynamic that promotes division and violence, and that Likud does nothing to stop them. We have enough home-grown whack jobs to deal with right now without abetting other people's.

Part of the problem is the nature of government in Israel. It is a parliamentary system in which the two dominant parties cannot reach 50% and form a government (and therefore choose a prime minister) without bringing in fringe parties. So fringe groups hold power that is disproportionate to their size. And they are crazy.

[Anonymous]

Is it true that 10% of the population of Israel is paid by the government to study the bible while attending separate schools and avoiding military service? If that is true, sounds like they have more then enough money and do not need the 3 billion from the US. We could really use that money here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP THANK YOU FOR HAVING THE BALLS, THE COJONAS, THE STEEL WHEELS TO WRITE THIS!

God, I am so F>>>>> SICK of Israel and all these politicians who put ISRAEL BEFORE AMERICA'S BEST INTEREST.

I so embarrassing... it's like WE are sucking on ISRAEL'S DICK. Our whole foreign policy has to first be approved by Tel Aviv and it has made us an honest broker of NOTHING.
And all it does is cost us on and on and on and on.

You aren't subtle and I agree wiith you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:... HAVING THE BALLS, THE COJONAS, ...

Just out of curiosity, was it a typo, or did you intentionally make cojones feminine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it true that 10% of the population of Israel is paid by the government to study the bible while attending separate schools and avoiding military service? If that is true, sounds like they have more then enough money and do not need the 3 billion from the US. We could really use that money here.

I think you are referring to the Ultra-Orthodox portion of the population. The men are supposed NOT to work so they can study the Bible full-time, and guess who gets to do ALL the work, including supporting the family, child-rearing, and so on? The women, of course. Honestly, I think I'd rather wear the hijab, sounds less tiring.
It's getting to be an economic problem to the point where a prominent rabbi came out recently and spoke against this custom, only to be pilloried by so many other rabbis that if I remember correctly, they had to put him under police protection.
Whack-jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, it's a modern book, written by two whack-jobs. My point is that whack-jobs like these are holding most Israeli citizens, who are no less reasonable than you and me, hostage to this us vs. them dynamic that promotes division and violence, and that Likud does nothing to stop them. We have enough home-grown whack jobs to deal with right now without abetting other people's.

it is the wack-jobs who do well.
Study the rise of the nazi party in Germany. Not what they did but how they got into power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't about the money. It is about the implicit security guarantee, and about our representation on the international stage, including what we do as a permanent member of the UN Security Council.

It's about American politics and American Jews.

meaning what?

who has the power?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:meaning what?

who has the power?

Money is your God

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word Palestine comes from "Philistine." In languages such as Arabic and Farsi, "Palestine" is pronounced with an "f", i.e., variants of "Phelesteen."

So there's no disputing that these people lived there side by side with the Jews, if you lend any credence to your Bible.

The Palestinians of today are not the same people as the biblical Philistines. The Romans started using the word when they were in control of the region. Before 1948, Jews in the region were referred to as Palestinians, too, or sometimes Palestinian Jews. There are also ethnic Arab Jews (who are not converts, or at least not recent converts).

I would add this: Israel polices the region. No one else will do the work or spend the money. If you think that Hamas and Hezbollah are just provincial menaces and have nothing to do with us, I suggest you think again. They have global aims, and have recently, to cite one example, been found to be working with drug cartel in Mexico. http://www.businessinsider.com/lulzsec-leak-reveals-terrifying-ties-between-hezbollah-and-mexicos-drug-cartels-2011-7. Hezbollah now runs Lebanon basically unopposed, and they face no opposition externally, except from Israel. Europe is completely unprepared for terrorist problems, and they have no stomach for it anyway. Turkey, which used to be a reliable ally and bulwark against the spread of Islamic extremism, is now consolidating ties with Iran rather than with Europe. (You can debate the many reason for this, but it remains a fact.)

I have personally been to Iran 3 times in the last 3 years, and I know what Islamic extremism looks like. It's not something we have to look at daily here in the States. The Israelis live it. I doubt many Americans would care to change places with them. Would you like to have Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan seething on your borders with Iran just a missile flight away? Think about it before you answer.

I told you your turkey statement was a misread. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-considering-ankaras-request-to-base-predators-in-turkey-to-fight-a-kurdish-group-in-northern-iraq/2011/09/09/gIQA5R1fIK_story.html?hpid=z4

[Anonymous]

It was time two decades before- we are driven by money now and the israelis run the u.s.