Median Guys have to step up @ t20/t30’s - the girls are blowing them out of the water

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Why is it that boys aren't at the same level do you think? Has anything changed since first posting this discussion?

Because smart and ambitious boys, who want to make money and do something cool and have a family one day, do not want to go into “policy” or other fake DC jobs. They want to start companies, solve big engineering problems, make a lot of money, etc. You’re scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

My kid at a top state school (he had top stats as well) is excellent at STEM. He interviewed at quant funds where it is purely techical and he did great and interned there. He also got funding for his startup. He has a girlfriend who is very personable and driven so I think he is doing just fine despite having average social skills. He is now taking personal coaching to pitch to investors, hitting the gym and reading up on sports to make small talk. He was very immature in HS compared to his sister. His ambition and drive which kicked in during college. I think for boys it just takes time but society does not seem to have patience when it comes to boys.

This is pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is probably a different post but I was thinking recently the college applications really don’t reflect a lot of important social skills, and that may show up more with the boys.

This is off point but as an example, my son has had a girlfriend for over a year. It obviously takes some time that he could otherwise be filling with extracurrriculars for his college applications. But, he’s developing real skills in treating women with respect and kindness, considering the needs of others, etc. He interacts well with her parents and has developed something of a bond with her dad, who is from a different culture. These all seem like solid life skills to me that will probably make him a better college citizen and employee some day. But the colleges are filtering for people who don’t have these life experiences, because they have up this social time to instead start a pointless non profit or win some prize at a competition for something you’ll never use. I’m not really throwing shade at those kids — that was my older kid and that’s a fine way to be. But the colleges are definitely not capturing the real breadth of skills we might want out future citizens to have.

Really, you just list having a girlfriend for over a year as a major achievement, comparable with being involved in a non profit or winning a competition. Did you run out of reasons to be proud of your son? True that some nonprofits are fake, competitions might not be relevant, but let’s not kid ourselves here, so is having a girlfriend, which most kids do, while starting a nonprofit and winning a competition is objectively more rare and requires more effort than making out with a girl.

NP. I would cry tears of joy if my gifted, mildly autistic son were able to land a nice girlfriend. Socially skills are really complex if you don’t understand them naturally. At this point, we’re resigned to him needing to make money first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

My kid at a top state school (he had top stats as well) is excellent at STEM. He interviewed at quant funds where it is purely techical and he did great and interned there. He also got funding for his startup. He has a girlfriend who is very personable and driven so I think he is doing just fine despite having average social skills. He is now taking personal coaching to pitch to investors, hitting the gym and reading up on sports to make small talk. He was very immature in HS compared to his sister. His ambition and drive which kicked in during college. I think for boys it just takes time but society does not seem to have patience when it comes to boys.

This is pathetic.

Why is it pathetic to work on things to improve oneself. This whole thread is about boys not having good social skills and presence. Some people have to take tutoring in math and others in presenting or pitching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Feminism was never about equality; it was always about female supremacy.

[Anonymous]

These days, a good percentage of smart boys are attracted to engineering. For engineering, the list of good schools is different than the standard top 20 schools. A lot of state flagships have great engineering programs with very capable and talented male students.

So for hiring smart boys, I would definitely look at STEM grads from public or STEM oriented private universities. They are generally going to bring raw brain power, discipline, and a familiarity with teamwork and cooperation. Even Wall Street is recruiting engineering grads.

There are also a lot of very driven boys attracted to finance/econ/business. At the better schools, these are your go-getters. Networking tends to be very important for them, so they may be a little more socially adept than your engineering grads, who tend to prefer very direct and straightforward communication.

The reality is it's a different world than 30 years ago. There aren't a lot of smart and ambitious boys studying public policy or political science these days - even at the elite schools. It's generally a very limited pool of male students in these majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

My kid at a top state school (he had top stats as well) is excellent at STEM. He interviewed at quant funds where it is purely techical and he did great and interned there. He also got funding for his startup. He has a girlfriend who is very personable and driven so I think he is doing just fine despite having average social skills. He is now taking personal coaching to pitch to investors, hitting the gym and reading up on sports to make small talk. He was very immature in HS compared to his sister. His ambition and drive which kicked in during college. I think for boys it just takes time but society does not seem to have patience when it comes to boys.

This is my DS. Late bloomer. Got some drive in college, and now headed to a quant firm for internship this summer (two quant firm , one FAANG , and two other big tech offers). He interviews very well.

DS has always been academically "gifted", but lacked drive in HS so didn't go to a T10, but his stats were super high.

What year is he (and age) and what changed in college? Is in the software side? I feel my DS is also a late bloomer too.

He's 20.5, a senior, CS major.

One thing that I think helped him grow up is that his HS gf who was at another college broke up with him. He was gutted, but had to learn to over come it. IMO, having a long distance GF was holding him back, not to mention she seemed a bit controlling (per DS). After getting over the breakup, he seemed to want to try new things and have more drive. I think it also helped that he had an internship that summer out of state. He had a ton of fun, met new people, and did really well at work.

All of this helped him to find his drive. Some kids just need a kick in the pants to get them started. He's having his best life so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

My kid at a top state school (he had top stats as well) is excellent at STEM. He interviewed at quant funds where it is purely techical and he did great and interned there. He also got funding for his startup. He has a girlfriend who is very personable and driven so I think he is doing just fine despite having average social skills. He is now taking personal coaching to pitch to investors, hitting the gym and reading up on sports to make small talk. He was very immature in HS compared to his sister. His ambition and drive which kicked in during college. I think for boys it just takes time but society does not seem to have patience when it comes to boys.

This is pathetic.

Why is it pathetic to work on things to improve oneself. This whole thread is about boys not having good social skills and presence. Some people have to take tutoring in math and others in presenting or pitching.

Authenticity sells. Pretense doesn’t. Integrity means something. Conformity does too — something different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Test Optional means recruiting is like a box of chocolates.