Median Guys have to step up @ t20/t30’s - the girls are blowing them out of the water

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the generation of boys who spent their entire high school career being told by teachers and schools that they were privileged and entitled because of their gender, so sit down, shut up, don't ask questions and don't contribute, until everyone else less priveleged than you has had your stay. They learned that lesson well.

Then, they were the covid kids, where they spent their late high school and early college years isolated in their rooms on their computers.

They are not prepared because the training during their formative years was a disaster, and in some ways, designed to achieve this outcome.

Oh please. My teenage DD can tell you that the boys in her class sure never keep their opinions to themselves.

Those are the dumb / insolent ones. They probably also believe college is a scam. That's not who we're talking about here.

Correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only worry about the males in my own household and they are crushing it. Always had straight As w/out helicopter parents. Always did their work w.out being reminded, great at scheduling. High rigor courses with a busy sports schedule, a club and lots of community service. Part-time summer jobs, etc. Oldest made it to an Ivy unhooked and top in his courses (w/out stress or feeling pressured--plenty of time for other things)--even won a departmental award Freshmen year. Very pro-active, lots of relationships w/ professors, etc. Solves his own problems, etc. Sophomore study abroad at prestigious university--lots of independence. Fantastic intership.

I attribute a lot to letting them fail. Letting them deal with the politics of travel sports and not stepping in. They figured out. They dug in, found other teams, trained harder and harder--felt the harshness after putting themselves out there. And, then seeing failure turn into opportunity and new directions.

We always had the mantra 'when one door closes or you are rejected, there is opportunity for better with a different door'. I always told them it wasn't meant to be and they are better off---and that has always been the case. What they thought they wanted--they see they were lucky not to get it. An a-hole coach and disappointed players, etc.--while being someone better with a great coach--apply this to everything else.

I get tired of the 'girl moms/dads' on this board. Blah, blah, blah...hopefully, they can find a good partner to date/marry being so superior to everyone else.

Congrats?? You realize this little anecdote means absolutely nothing on a macro level, right? Your kids are not the norm. These are well documented statistics. Girls ARE outperforming boys. It IS an issue with regards to dating and marriage. It even had an impact on the moron who is president right now. Boys are less educated and more conservative. Why would an educated ambitious woman want to be with an uneducated MAGA guy?

I just read an article about this actually. Educated women are marrying less educated men because that's who is available.

WSJ just ran a big article…actually said they aren’t marrying at all and becoming single parents by choice.

In fact, the article said working class women with jobs are marrying less than educated women.

From WSJ:

American women have never been this resigned to staying single. They are responding to major demographic shifts, including huge and growing gender gaps in economic and educational attainment, political affiliation and beliefs about what a family should look like.

“The numbers aren’t netting out,” said Daniel Cox, director of the survey center at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a conservative think tank. He ticked off the data points: More women than men are attending college, buying houses and focusing on their friendships and careers over dating and marriage.

The share of women ages 18 to 40 who are single—that is, neither married nor cohabitating with a partner—was 51.4% in 2023, according to an analysis of census data by the Aspen Economic Strategy Group, up from 41.8% in 2000.

These numbers don’t specify whether women are looking for love or swearing it off, but more-nuanced surveys show that single women appear less interested in getting married now than they used to be. They also seem less keen on getting hitched than their male peers.

The challenges of finding a romantic partner have been made more complicated by a growing divide in education and career prospects between men and women. In 2024 47% of American women ages 25-34 had a bachelor’s degree, according to Pew, compared with 37% of men. A bachelor’s degree increases net lifetime earnings by an estimated $1 million, according to a 2024 report from Georgetown University.

Men’s economic struggles seem to be having the biggest effect on women without a college degree, whose marriage rates by age 45 have plummeted from 79% to 52% for those born between 1930 and 1980, according to research by Cornell University economist Benjamin Goldman. “Young men without a degree are struggling so much as a group that there simply aren’t enough with steady jobs and earnings for non-college women to date,” said Goldman.

For Christina Ralstin, a 31-year-old wildland firefighter in rural Republic, Wash., who didn’t go to college, buying a house was confirmation she didn’t need a partner to be content. She paid $90,000 for a two-bedroom on half an acre of land in 2022.

If women are fine being single, why does the article make it seem like women are the real victims of men's poverty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only worry about the males in my own household and they are crushing it. Always had straight As w/out helicopter parents. Always did their work w.out being reminded, great at scheduling. High rigor courses with a busy sports schedule, a club and lots of community service. Part-time summer jobs, etc. Oldest made it to an Ivy unhooked and top in his courses (w/out stress or feeling pressured--plenty of time for other things)--even won a departmental award Freshmen year. Very pro-active, lots of relationships w/ professors, etc. Solves his own problems, etc. Sophomore study abroad at prestigious university--lots of independence. Fantastic intership.

I attribute a lot to letting them fail. Letting them deal with the politics of travel sports and not stepping in. They figured out. They dug in, found other teams, trained harder and harder--felt the harshness after putting themselves out there. And, then seeing failure turn into opportunity and new directions.

We always had the mantra 'when one door closes or you are rejected, there is opportunity for better with a different door'. I always told them it wasn't meant to be and they are better off---and that has always been the case. What they thought they wanted--they see they were lucky not to get it. An a-hole coach and disappointed players, etc.--while being someone better with a great coach--apply this to everything else.

I get tired of the 'girl moms/dads' on this board. Blah, blah, blah...hopefully, they can find a good partner to date/marry being so superior to everyone else.

Congrats?? You realize this little anecdote means absolutely nothing on a macro level, right? Your kids are not the norm. These are well documented statistics. Girls ARE outperforming boys. It IS an issue with regards to dating and marriage. It even had an impact on the moron who is president right now. Boys are less educated and more conservative. Why would an educated ambitious woman want to be with an uneducated MAGA guy?

I just read an article about this actually. Educated women are marrying less educated men because that's who is available.

WSJ just ran a big article…actually said they aren’t marrying at all and becoming single parents by choice.

In fact, the article said working class women with jobs are marrying less than educated women.

From WSJ:

American women have never been this resigned to staying single. They are responding to major demographic shifts, including huge and growing gender gaps in economic and educational attainment, political affiliation and beliefs about what a family should look like.

“The numbers aren’t netting out,” said Daniel Cox, director of the survey center at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a conservative think tank. He ticked off the data points: More women than men are attending college, buying houses and focusing on their friendships and careers over dating and marriage.

The share of women ages 18 to 40 who are single—that is, neither married nor cohabitating with a partner—was 51.4% in 2023, according to an analysis of census data by the Aspen Economic Strategy Group, up from 41.8% in 2000.

These numbers don’t specify whether women are looking for love or swearing it off, but more-nuanced surveys show that single women appear less interested in getting married now than they used to be. They also seem less keen on getting hitched than their male peers.

The challenges of finding a romantic partner have been made more complicated by a growing divide in education and career prospects between men and women. In 2024 47% of American women ages 25-34 had a bachelor’s degree, according to Pew, compared with 37% of men. A bachelor’s degree increases net lifetime earnings by an estimated $1 million, according to a 2024 report from Georgetown University.

Men’s economic struggles seem to be having the biggest effect on women without a college degree, whose marriage rates by age 45 have plummeted from 79% to 52% for those born between 1930 and 1980, according to research by Cornell University economist Benjamin Goldman. “Young men without a degree are struggling so much as a group that there simply aren’t enough with steady jobs and earnings for non-college women to date,” said Goldman.

For Christina Ralstin, a 31-year-old wildland firefighter in rural Republic, Wash., who didn’t go to college, buying a house was confirmation she didn’t need a partner to be content. She paid $90,000 for a two-bedroom on half an acre of land in 2022.

If women are fine being single, why does the article make it seem like women are the real victims of men's poverty?

It doesn’t say they are fine being single…more resigned to being single and making the best of the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

So what are the bottom half boys (ie 1/4th the overall class) at t20s doing?

Because that section of the class is a disaster and looks like they are only in school to balance the dating pool and give the girls attending some entertainment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

So what are the bottom half boys (ie 1/4th the overall class) at t20s doing?

Because that section of the class is a disaster and looks like they are only in school to balance the dating pool and give the girls attending some entertainment

Exactly. The bottom half of girls are doing much better than the bottom half of guys. It doesn’t matter that the top boys are starting their own tech startups. That’s like saying that everyone is doing financially well because Bill Gates has a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

So what are the bottom half boys (ie 1/4th the overall class) at t20s doing?

Because that section of the class is a disaster and looks like they are only in school to balance the dating pool and give the girls attending some entertainment

Exactly. The bottom half of girls are doing much better than the bottom half of guys. It doesn’t matter that the top boys are starting their own tech startups. That’s like saying that everyone is doing financially well because Bill Gates has a lot of money.

Bottom half of a T20 is still pretty strong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Why is it that boys aren't at the same level do you think? Has anything changed since first posting this discussion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Why is it that boys aren't at the same level do you think? Has anything changed since first posting this discussion?

The smart ones go into STEM/finance, because that's where the money is. They don't have the luxury of being able to pursue their passions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the generation of boys who spent their entire high school career being told by teachers and schools that they were privileged and entitled because of their gender, so sit down, shut up, don't ask questions and don't contribute, until everyone else less priveleged than you has had your stay. They learned that lesson well.

Then, they were the covid kids, where they spent their late high school and early college years isolated in their rooms on their computers.

They are not prepared because the training during their formative years was a disaster, and in some ways, designed to achieve this outcome.

If your son did this, then that is a parenting fail. Stop blaming others first you not parenting your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Why is it that boys aren't at the same level do you think? Has anything changed since first posting this discussion?

The smart ones go into STEM/finance, because that's where the money is. They don't have the luxury of being able to pursue their passions.

Weird post. Can you find it in the realm of possibilities that STEM could be someone’s passion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This year I’m on the hiring team as the senior/director person in our org’s entry level (consulting, political, policy type shop)…

and one thing I’ve noticed is the boys we are receiving from t20s are not good (on paper or even the few we’ve given interviews to just to get some boys in the hiring pipeline.) the boy interviews have been disasters so far

Granted we don’t get the top boys who go to more prestigious firms, or the stem boys, but the median liberal arts
/social science boys we see in our applicant pool vs the girls is night and day.

The girls even make pro-sports small talk with me better than the boys!

Btw these are all private college t20:t30 class of 2024 or 2025 grads

Caution: read this thread’s title carefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

My kid at a top state school (he had top stats as well) is excellent at STEM. He interviewed at quant funds where it is purely techical and he did great and interned there. He also got funding for his startup. He has a girlfriend who is very personable and driven so I think he is doing just fine despite having average social skills. He is now taking personal coaching to pitch to investors, hitting the gym and reading up on sports to make small talk. He was very immature in HS compared to his sister. His ambition and drive which kicked in during college. I think for boys it just takes time but society does not seem to have patience when it comes to boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

My kid at a top state school (he had top stats as well) is excellent at STEM. He interviewed at quant funds where it is purely techical and he did great and interned there. He also got funding for his startup. He has a girlfriend who is very personable and driven so I think he is doing just fine despite having average social skills. He is now taking personal coaching to pitch to investors, hitting the gym and reading up on sports to make small talk. He was very immature in HS compared to his sister. His ambition and drive which kicked in during college. I think for boys it just takes time but society does not seem to have patience when it comes to boys.

This is my DS. Late bloomer. Got some drive in college, and now headed to a quant firm for internship this summer (two quant firm , one FAANG , and two other big tech offers). He interviews very well.

DS has always been academically "gifted", but lacked drive in HS so didn't go to a T10, but his stats were super high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here

Interviewed a boy from Penn today

We wanted to hang up in the middle of the interview but couldn’t since he interned in a senate office we’re friends with.

The amount of “likes” and “umm” and even a a random “like awesome”

After him we interviewed a girl from vassar and her vocabulary, cadence, tone….it was akin to being in the jungle observing two completely different species

Smart boys don’t go into politics or want to live in DC. I mean, come on.

Then what are the smartest boys doing? I mean the top 10%. Not all of them are going into finance. I’d say at least a few go into politics/law.

The smartest boys are starting their own tech start ups.

Next up is finance and law, maybe medicine.

The end.

My kid at a top state school (he had top stats as well) is excellent at STEM. He interviewed at quant funds where it is purely techical and he did great and interned there. He also got funding for his startup. He has a girlfriend who is very personable and driven so I think he is doing just fine despite having average social skills. He is now taking personal coaching to pitch to investors, hitting the gym and reading up on sports to make small talk. He was very immature in HS compared to his sister. His ambition and drive which kicked in during college. I think for boys it just takes time but society does not seem to have patience when it comes to boys.

This is my DS. Late bloomer. Got some drive in college, and now headed to a quant firm for internship this summer (two quant firm , one FAANG , and two other big tech offers). He interviews very well.

DS has always been academically "gifted", but lacked drive in HS so didn't go to a T10, but his stats were super high.

What year is he (and age) and what changed in college? Is in the software side? I feel my DS is also a late bloomer too.