Vent: My son unintentionally shamed my brother, who then "told on me" to our parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Often people like this are mentally ill AND they have dysfunctional, overprotective parents. Their parents watch them struggle so much growing up or in young adulthood and they don’t know what to do or how to help, and they usually end up enabling or making the child feel even more helpless. I’ve seen this dynamic in my own family and it is frustrating and a little heartbreaking. 💔

Just be the bigger person Op and try to have some compassion.

Nope. The family knows how to get help. This is not the 1920s. They actively chose not to get help and keep it a big secret. It is one thing for the parents to explain to OP that her brother has struggled since childhood and has tried therapies and meds and is considered a very complex case and then OP can figure out how to share with kids so they are compassionate. It's another thing to NOT get your child help all these years or to do it in secret and gaslight the family and insist all is normal and there is nothing going on and dump the brother on OP without any explanation that there is a serious mental health issue. There is SHAME in having a struggling child and not getting help for that child and thinking you can dump the problem on your other children. OPs parents can even set up boundaries now with the brother and they can get their own therapy for ideas on how to have boundaries and what to say to other adult children about the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the seven year old ask other kids moms why they don’t work? I find this so hard to believe.

You don't think 7YOs are curious about how other families do things? My kids weren't judgy about family differences (except to the extent that other families were more fun than ours), but they absolutely wanted to know why someone had two mommies or only a daddy or went to Florida on vacation or didn't have siblings. And kids in search of information can be relentless.

Have you seriously never had to pull a "We'll talk about it later" with your kids?

This. My kids would definitely have asked. it's being mean. They were curious about everything. Also, at that age they have little career days so they wonder about different types of jobs people do. If Ops brother were employed as say a trashman, he would have been a hero to my son and he would then go brag to his all his friends about his uncle's job and the truck he drives or rides on. My kids consider being a SAHM or SAHD a job, so that they would have been fine with that answer. They would have been confused by am adult who is not retirement age who has no kids, no spouse and doesn't work, and they would ask and we should shut it down. It's much easier when the family doesn't have shame about disability and you know the person is getting help. Then you just explain to your kids and you talk about the importance of getting help for our struggles. it's when there is secrecy and family myths "Uncle Fred is totally fine and has no issues. He just lives with his parents, does nothing all day, doesn't get help, but nothing to see here, he is totally fine."

You don't have to say anything of that. Clearly there is an issue you tell your kid "Uncle Fred is wired different and things are harder for him." OP needs to teach her kid that there are a lot of different people in the world beyond the handful he knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often people like this are mentally ill AND they have dysfunctional, overprotective parents. Their parents watch them struggle so much growing up or in young adulthood and they don’t know what to do or how to help, and they usually end up enabling or making the child feel even more helpless. I’ve seen this dynamic in my own family and it is frustrating and a little heartbreaking. 💔

Just be the bigger person Op and try to have some compassion.

Nope. The family knows how to get help. This is not the 1920s. They actively chose not to get help and keep it a big secret. It is one thing for the parents to explain to OP that her brother has struggled since childhood and has tried therapies and meds and is considered a very complex case and then OP can figure out how to share with kids so they are compassionate. It's another thing to NOT get your child help all these years or to do it in secret and gaslight the family and insist all is normal and there is nothing going on and dump the brother on OP without any explanation that there is a serious mental health issue. There is SHAME in having a struggling child and not getting help for that child and thinking you can dump the problem on your other children. OPs parents can even set up boundaries now with the brother and they can get their own therapy for ideas on how to have boundaries and what to say to other adult children about the situation.

How do you force an adult to get help? Have you any experience with this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often people like this are mentally ill AND they have dysfunctional, overprotective parents. Their parents watch them struggle so much growing up or in young adulthood and they don’t know what to do or how to help, and they usually end up enabling or making the child feel even more helpless. I’ve seen this dynamic in my own family and it is frustrating and a little heartbreaking. 💔

Just be the bigger person Op and try to have some compassion.

Nope. The family knows how to get help. This is not the 1920s. They actively chose not to get help and keep it a big secret. It is one thing for the parents to explain to OP that her brother has struggled since childhood and has tried therapies and meds and is considered a very complex case and then OP can figure out how to share with kids so they are compassionate. It's another thing to NOT get your child help all these years or to do it in secret and gaslight the family and insist all is normal and there is nothing going on and dump the brother on OP without any explanation that there is a serious mental health issue. There is SHAME in having a struggling child and not getting help for that child and thinking you can dump the problem on your other children. OPs parents can even set up boundaries now with the brother and they can get their own therapy for ideas on how to have boundaries and what to say to other adult children about the situation.

How do you force an adult to get help? Have you any experience with this?

You get them help as a child. Once you have an adult you get your own professional help to figure out what boundaries to set. If you let someone live rent free, you have parameters they are capable of with whatever disability. Chores in the house. Trying out several therapists and choosing one. Getting a psychiatric evaluation. As far as we know this family did NOTHING all these years. If they did try to get help, then work with a therapist to figure out how to share his issues with OP so it isn't, this whole pretending nothing is wrong. The fact the mom sends an adult son with loads of laundry to OP and things OP is going to accommodate that is insane. He clearly isn't physically disabled. An intellectually disabled person can do laundry. A mentally ill person can do laundry. If there is some issue that keeps him from being able to do his own darn laundry, it needs to be shared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your son was parroting comments and sentiments you yourself had expressed. You invited someone to your home only to mock him and enlist your elementary school son in the process. That is no way to treat a guest. You owe him an apology. I suggest counseling to deal with your deep rooted latent hostility and anger towards your family. They’re all obviously fine with their living and support arrangements. You, on the other hand, are seething with rage. Please get help soon and stop attacking those who love you.

DH and I are very careful to not talk in front of the kids about my brother. I think it was more that DS doesn't know any grown men without jobs, and was thinking out loud as he struggled to understand the situation. All he sees is my brother sitting or laying on the couch when he's here. He won't even play on the floor with the kids or go outside to draw with chalk on the driveway. Also, we don't invite my brother. My mother calls and announces she's "sending" him over. He used to try to bring dirty laundry thinking I'd do it for him. DH finally told him after the 4th or 5th time that was never going to happen.

I don’t believe you. Seven year olds are not that obsessed with adult jobs, even in DC. You sound high pressure and anxiety ridden OP. I wouldn’t want to be your brother and I wouldn’t want to be your son!

You're speculating about a motive here - that OP's son must be "obsessed with adult jobs" - that is completely unnecessary. Seven year olds ask a lot of questions, about everything. Especially when they don't understand the answers they are getting. It's entirely believable that OP's son asked question after question after question.

Have you ever actually met a seven year old?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often people like this are mentally ill AND they have dysfunctional, overprotective parents. Their parents watch them struggle so much growing up or in young adulthood and they don’t know what to do or how to help, and they usually end up enabling or making the child feel even more helpless. I’ve seen this dynamic in my own family and it is frustrating and a little heartbreaking. 💔

Just be the bigger person Op and try to have some compassion.

Nope. The family knows how to get help. This is not the 1920s. They actively chose not to get help and keep it a big secret. It is one thing for the parents to explain to OP that her brother has struggled since childhood and has tried therapies and meds and is considered a very complex case and then OP can figure out how to share with kids so they are compassionate. It's another thing to NOT get your child help all these years or to do it in secret and gaslight the family and insist all is normal and there is nothing going on and dump the brother on OP without any explanation that there is a serious mental health issue. There is SHAME in having a struggling child and not getting help for that child and thinking you can dump the problem on your other children. OPs parents can even set up boundaries now with the brother and they can get their own therapy for ideas on how to have boundaries and what to say to other adult children about the situation.

How do you force an adult to get help? Have you any experience with this?

You get them help as a child. Once you have an adult you get your own professional help to figure out what boundaries to set. If you let someone live rent free, you have parameters they are capable of with whatever disability. Chores in the house. Trying out several therapists and choosing one. Getting a psychiatric evaluation. As far as we know this family did NOTHING all these years. If they did try to get help, then work with a therapist to figure out how to share his issues with OP so it isn't, this whole pretending nothing is wrong. The fact the mom sends an adult son with loads of laundry to OP and things OP is going to accommodate that is insane. He clearly isn't physically disabled. An intellectually disabled person can do laundry. A mentally ill person can do laundry. If there is some issue that keeps him from being able to do his own darn laundry, it needs to be shared.

How does this help OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your son was parroting comments and sentiments you yourself had expressed. You invited someone to your home only to mock him and enlist your elementary school son in the process. That is no way to treat a guest. You owe him an apology. I suggest counseling to deal with your deep rooted latent hostility and anger towards your family. They’re all obviously fine with their living and support arrangements. You, on the other hand, are seething with rage. Please get help soon and stop attacking those who love you.

DH and I are very careful to not talk in front of the kids about my brother. I think it was more that DS doesn't know any grown men without jobs, and was thinking out loud as he struggled to understand the situation. All he sees is my brother sitting or laying on the couch when he's here. He won't even play on the floor with the kids or go outside to draw with chalk on the driveway. Also, we don't invite my brother. My mother calls and announces she's "sending" him over. He used to try to bring dirty laundry thinking I'd do it for him. DH finally told him after the 4th or 5th time that was never going to happen.

If this is true, then I'm as confused as the seven year old. Does he have mental health problems? I have two failure to launch types in my family, and both have trouble keeping jobs, but by 42 they at least didn't live at home. Of course, that's partly because their parents wouldn't let them.

[Anonymous]

What exactly do your parents want your son to apologize for? He’s 7 years old. They are inquisitive and insistent and all little budding attorneys. Your brother should have had some way to explain himself and the way he is living his life. Maybe as a PP said, you can tell your brother you’re sorry he was uncomfortable. Your son doesn’t need to say anything.

But OP, what do your parents expect to happen when they die? Do they expect you to take over in looking after your brother? Are they going to set up a trust for him, assuming they’ll have assets they can leave for him so he doesn’t blow through everything. If you haven’t had that discussion with them, you should. And if he hasn’t gotten any mental health assessments, he should.

The idea that your brother brought over his dirty laundry for you to do is just mind-blowing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your son was parroting comments and sentiments you yourself had expressed. You invited someone to your home only to mock him and enlist your elementary school son in the process. That is no way to treat a guest. You owe him an apology. I suggest counseling to deal with your deep rooted latent hostility and anger towards your family. They’re all obviously fine with their living and support arrangements. You, on the other hand, are seething with rage. Please get help soon and stop attacking those who love you.

DH and I are very careful to not talk in front of the kids about my brother. I think it was more that DS doesn't know any grown men without jobs, and was thinking out loud as he struggled to understand the situation. All he sees is my brother sitting or laying on the couch when he's here. He won't even play on the floor with the kids or go outside to draw with chalk on the driveway. Also, we don't invite my brother. My mother calls and announces she's "sending" him over. He used to try to bring dirty laundry thinking I'd do it for him. DH finally told him after the 4th or 5th time that was never going to happen.

I don’t believe you. Seven year olds are not that obsessed with adult jobs, even in DC. You sound high pressure and anxiety ridden OP. I wouldn’t want to be your brother and I wouldn’t want to be your son!

You're speculating about a motive here - that OP's son must be "obsessed with adult jobs" - that is completely unnecessary. Seven year olds ask a lot of questions, about everything. Especially when they don't understand the answers they are getting. It's entirely believable that OP's son asked question after question after question.

Have you ever actually met a seven year old?

LOL, NP, but my 7 year old knows that people are all different, in so many ways. I don’t think she’d blink if someone didn’t have a job, because she knows SAH people, retired people. Self employed people, job seeking people, just.. people. Just lie, she wouldn’t be concerned with families with separated parents or same sex parent, or being raised by grandparents.. she gets that everyone is different. Th3 lack of a defined career is such a strange thing for a 7yo to be (apparently) bothered by, if your child has been exposed to anything at all. My guess is they haven’t been, given the tidbit earlier that he hasn’t been exposed to *men* (specifically) without jobs. My kid knows many parents with seasonal jobs and could literally not GAF more.

[Anonymous]

Also, I believe it was unintentional that your son unintentionally shamed your brother, only in that it exposed your unspoken thoughts and judgement about him.


Your post is dripping on condescension, so it’s not like you’re not thinking and projecting this stuff. Yiu just want to look kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often people like this are mentally ill AND they have dysfunctional, overprotective parents. Their parents watch them struggle so much growing up or in young adulthood and they don’t know what to do or how to help, and they usually end up enabling or making the child feel even more helpless. I’ve seen this dynamic in my own family and it is frustrating and a little heartbreaking. 💔

Just be the bigger person Op and try to have some compassion.

Nope. The family knows how to get help. This is not the 1920s. They actively chose not to get help and keep it a big secret. It is one thing for the parents to explain to OP that her brother has struggled since childhood and has tried therapies and meds and is considered a very complex case and then OP can figure out how to share with kids so they are compassionate. It's another thing to NOT get your child help all these years or to do it in secret and gaslight the family and insist all is normal and there is nothing going on and dump the brother on OP without any explanation that there is a serious mental health issue. There is SHAME in having a struggling child and not getting help for that child and thinking you can dump the problem on your other children. OPs parents can even set up boundaries now with the brother and they can get their own therapy for ideas on how to have boundaries and what to say to other adult children about the situation.

How do you force an adult to get help? Have you any experience with this?

You get them help as a child. Once you have an adult you get your own professional help to figure out what boundaries to set. If you let someone live rent free, you have parameters they are capable of with whatever disability. Chores in the house. Trying out several therapists and choosing one. Getting a psychiatric evaluation. As far as we know this family did NOTHING all these years. If they did try to get help, then work with a therapist to figure out how to share his issues with OP so it isn't, this whole pretending nothing is wrong. The fact the mom sends an adult son with loads of laundry to OP and things OP is going to accommodate that is insane. He clearly isn't physically disabled. An intellectually disabled person can do laundry. A mentally ill person can do laundry. If there is some issue that keeps him from being able to do his own darn laundry, it needs to be shared.

How does this help OP?

Read the thread. It was in answer to a question that was asked on the thread.

This is not OPs problem. She needs to just not get drawn into the dramatics. Just simply say that she shut it down and it was not asked in a malicious way. This is her parents not dealing with their son and not wanting to face reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often people like this are mentally ill AND they have dysfunctional, overprotective parents. Their parents watch them struggle so much growing up or in young adulthood and they don’t know what to do or how to help, and they usually end up enabling or making the child feel even more helpless. I’ve seen this dynamic in my own family and it is frustrating and a little heartbreaking. 💔

Just be the bigger person Op and try to have some compassion.

Nope. The family knows how to get help. This is not the 1920s. They actively chose not to get help and keep it a big secret. It is one thing for the parents to explain to OP that her brother has struggled since childhood and has tried therapies and meds and is considered a very complex case and then OP can figure out how to share with kids so they are compassionate. It's another thing to NOT get your child help all these years or to do it in secret and gaslight the family and insist all is normal and there is nothing going on and dump the brother on OP without any explanation that there is a serious mental health issue. There is SHAME in having a struggling child and not getting help for that child and thinking you can dump the problem on your other children. OPs parents can even set up boundaries now with the brother and they can get their own therapy for ideas on how to have boundaries and what to say to other adult children about the situation.

How do you force an adult to get help? Have you any experience with this?

You get them help as a child. Once you have an adult you get your own professional help to figure out what boundaries to set. If you let someone live rent free, you have parameters they are capable of with whatever disability. Chores in the house. Trying out several therapists and choosing one. Getting a psychiatric evaluation. As far as we know this family did NOTHING all these years. If they did try to get help, then work with a therapist to figure out how to share his issues with OP so it isn't, this whole pretending nothing is wrong. The fact the mom sends an adult son with loads of laundry to OP and things OP is going to accommodate that is insane. He clearly isn't physically disabled. An intellectually disabled person can do laundry. A mentally ill person can do laundry. If there is some issue that keeps him from being able to do his own darn laundry, it needs to be shared.

No his personal information does not have to be shared with a sister he isn’t even that close to! OP rightfully stopped the laundry issue on her own as well she should have.

Her brother’s financial dependence on his parents is between them and is their issue to resolve. Unless brother is asking OP for money or long term care, none of this if her business. She just doesn’t like that he doesn’t work and she is entitled to that opinion but that’s all it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often people like this are mentally ill AND they have dysfunctional, overprotective parents. Their parents watch them struggle so much growing up or in young adulthood and they don’t know what to do or how to help, and they usually end up enabling or making the child feel even more helpless. I’ve seen this dynamic in my own family and it is frustrating and a little heartbreaking. 💔

Just be the bigger person Op and try to have some compassion.

Nope. The family knows how to get help. This is not the 1920s. They actively chose not to get help and keep it a big secret. It is one thing for the parents to explain to OP that her brother has struggled since childhood and has tried therapies and meds and is considered a very complex case and then OP can figure out how to share with kids so they are compassionate. It's another thing to NOT get your child help all these years or to do it in secret and gaslight the family and insist all is normal and there is nothing going on and dump the brother on OP without any explanation that there is a serious mental health issue. There is SHAME in having a struggling child and not getting help for that child and thinking you can dump the problem on your other children. OPs parents can even set up boundaries now with the brother and they can get their own therapy for ideas on how to have boundaries and what to say to other adult children about the situation.

How do you force an adult to get help? Have you any experience with this?

I think it’s fairly clear that PP has no real experiencing dealing with this type of complex situation, from assuming all of a person’s issues would be diagnosed in childhood (!) to the idea that a family would know how to get help including for an adult who may not be receptive to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often people like this are mentally ill AND they have dysfunctional, overprotective parents. Their parents watch them struggle so much growing up or in young adulthood and they don’t know what to do or how to help, and they usually end up enabling or making the child feel even more helpless. I’ve seen this dynamic in my own family and it is frustrating and a little heartbreaking. 💔

Just be the bigger person Op and try to have some compassion.

Nope. The family knows how to get help. This is not the 1920s. They actively chose not to get help and keep it a big secret. It is one thing for the parents to explain to OP that her brother has struggled since childhood and has tried therapies and meds and is considered a very complex case and then OP can figure out how to share with kids so they are compassionate. It's another thing to NOT get your child help all these years or to do it in secret and gaslight the family and insist all is normal and there is nothing going on and dump the brother on OP without any explanation that there is a serious mental health issue. There is SHAME in having a struggling child and not getting help for that child and thinking you can dump the problem on your other children. OPs parents can even set up boundaries now with the brother and they can get their own therapy for ideas on how to have boundaries and what to say to other adult children about the situation.

How do you force an adult to get help? Have you any experience with this?

You get them help as a child. Once you have an adult you get your own professional help to figure out what boundaries to set. If you let someone live rent free, you have parameters they are capable of with whatever disability. Chores in the house. Trying out several therapists and choosing one. Getting a psychiatric evaluation. As far as we know this family did NOTHING all these years. If they did try to get help, then work with a therapist to figure out how to share his issues with OP so it isn't, this whole pretending nothing is wrong. The fact the mom sends an adult son with loads of laundry to OP and things OP is going to accommodate that is insane. He clearly isn't physically disabled. An intellectually disabled person can do laundry. A mentally ill person can do laundry. If there is some issue that keeps him from being able to do his own darn laundry, it needs to be shared.

How does this help OP?

Read the thread. It was in answer to a question that was asked on the thread.

This is not OPs problem. She needs to just not get drawn into the dramatics. Just simply say that she shut it down and it was not asked in a malicious way. This is her parents not dealing with their son and not wanting to face reality.

I did read. Which is why PPs advice is useless. Shoulda, coulda, woulda with uncle back when he was a child. He's an adult now. All OP can do is set boundaries for herself. Not insist her brother or her parents do this, do that, make rules, insist on change. Whatever. Not her problem. She can limit decide who is welcome at her house or not and shut down any conversation about her brother when talking to her parents. I know, I've been there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often people like this are mentally ill AND they have dysfunctional, overprotective parents. Their parents watch them struggle so much growing up or in young adulthood and they don’t know what to do or how to help, and they usually end up enabling or making the child feel even more helpless. I’ve seen this dynamic in my own family and it is frustrating and a little heartbreaking. 💔

Just be the bigger person Op and try to have some compassion.

Nope. The family knows how to get help. This is not the 1920s. They actively chose not to get help and keep it a big secret. It is one thing for the parents to explain to OP that her brother has struggled since childhood and has tried therapies and meds and is considered a very complex case and then OP can figure out how to share with kids so they are compassionate. It's another thing to NOT get your child help all these years or to do it in secret and gaslight the family and insist all is normal and there is nothing going on and dump the brother on OP without any explanation that there is a serious mental health issue. There is SHAME in having a struggling child and not getting help for that child and thinking you can dump the problem on your other children. OPs parents can even set up boundaries now with the brother and they can get their own therapy for ideas on how to have boundaries and what to say to other adult children about the situation.

How do you force an adult to get help? Have you any experience with this?

You get them help as a child. Once you have an adult you get your own professional help to figure out what boundaries to set. If you let someone live rent free, you have parameters they are capable of with whatever disability. Chores in the house. Trying out several therapists and choosing one. Getting a psychiatric evaluation. As far as we know this family did NOTHING all these years. If they did try to get help, then work with a therapist to figure out how to share his issues with OP so it isn't, this whole pretending nothing is wrong. The fact the mom sends an adult son with loads of laundry to OP and things OP is going to accommodate that is insane. He clearly isn't physically disabled. An intellectually disabled person can do laundry. A mentally ill person can do laundry. If there is some issue that keeps him from being able to do his own darn laundry, it needs to be shared.

No his personal information does not have to be shared with a sister he isn’t even that close to! OP rightfully stopped the laundry issue on her own as well she should have.

Her brother’s financial dependence on his parents is between them and is their issue to resolve. Unless brother is asking OP for money or long term care, none of this if her business. She just doesn’t like that he doesn’t work and she is entitled to that opinion but that’s all it is.

This dude rolled up with his dirty drawers for his sister to launder, he feels plenty close. He doesn't want to work, his parents won't hold him accountable/get him help and his sister isn't there for it. And his nephew knows it's bonkers. All those things CAN be true!