Law school financial aid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is changing and this may affect the availability of merit based scholarship awards from law schools. Some law schools are considering abandoning the LSAT and standardized testing as an admissions requirements while other law schools now accept the GRE in lieu of the LSAT.

Many law schools are refusing to supply US News with requested information. If US News stops rating & ranking law schools, then many merit based law school scholarships will disappear as merit scholarships were offered primarily to raise a particular law school's median admissions standards ( undergraduate GPA & LSAT score) in an effort to raise that law school's US News ranking.

[b]Currently the [b]American Bar Association requires colleges to require standardized testing.[/b] So it's not really something that schools can consider abandoning.

The ABA has gone back-and-forth on standardized testing as a requirement.

https://blog.accepted.com/aba-drops-lsat-requirement-beginning-in-2025/

But then:

https://reuters.com/legal/government/aba-pauses-move-nix-lsat-requirement-2023-05-12/

The ABA is just a voluntary trade association. I haven't belonged in decades when it swung left. It has no control over law schools. Deans do not care what it thinks. It can publish articles and suggested models all day long and no one in the legal field cares

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is changing and this may affect the availability of merit based scholarship awards from law schools. Some law schools are considering abandoning the LSAT and standardized testing as an admissions requirements while other law schools now accept the GRE in lieu of the LSAT.

Many law schools are refusing to supply US News with requested information. If US News stops rating & ranking law schools, then many merit based law school scholarships will disappear as merit scholarships were offered primarily to raise a particular law school's median admissions standards ( undergraduate GPA & LSAT score) in an effort to raise that law school's US News ranking.

[b]Currently the [b]American Bar Association requires colleges to require standardized testing.[/b] So it's not really something that schools can consider abandoning.

The ABA has gone back-and-forth on standardized testing as a requirement.

https://blog.accepted.com/aba-drops-lsat-requirement-beginning-in-2025/

But then:

https://reuters.com/legal/government/aba-pauses-move-nix-lsat-requirement-2023-05-12/

The ABA is just a voluntary trade association. I haven't belonged in decades when it swung left. It has no control over law schools. Deans do not care what it thinks. It can publish articles and suggested models all day long and no one in the legal field cares

This might be the single wrongest thing I’ve ever read here and that’s saying a lot. The US Dept of Education has recognized the ABA as the accrediting body for law schools across the country and it’s virtually impossible to join the bar as an attorney without earning a degree from an ABA-accredited law school (unless you read for the law like about 10 lawyers a year do)

As long as the ABA stipulates that law schools must require a standardized test for entry into an accredited law school (as they continue to do) then tests will remain

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law schools are going to be able to tell that she’s not that into it. Great schools will weed out an app like that and they certainly won’t give merit aid. It’s hard enough for any 24 year old to prove to law schools they can hack it, even with obvious recs, internships, and ECs to prove it. Law schools prefer older students.

I recommend she either wait until she’s sure it’s what she wants or can go into debt for the hobby of learning (if she can afford an expensive hobby.) I get it. I love learning too and I fully support intellectual curiosity but law school is no joke and you have to be committed. It also feels wrong to give merit aid to someone who is basically auditing classes instead of someone who will put their degree to work. I’d suggest she wait until she’s about 28 or 30 to decide.

Law schools look at GPA and LSAT. They don't try to figure out if you are interested in becoming an attorney.

This outdated advice.

If you are young, they will 100% be more reluctant to take you and look for evidence you are serious. And even then, they will likely pass you by assuming you can wait until you’re older. They do not want 22 year olds getting panic attacks or dropping out because they’re not ready for the pressure. For the most competitive schools, you have to have multiple internships related to law, not just related ECs. They don’t just want a high LSAT score, they want to know you’ll graduate and pass the bar.

Last year someone with a 3.7/168 got into Harvard but not their friends with 3.8/174 and 4.0/176. Guess which of the three kids had more unpaid internships? Guess which kids worked paid jobs unrelated to law?

It’s really bad advice to tell people it’s “grades and lsat”. Like undergrad, that is just the beginning.

What is your source ? This is total garbage advice.

Undergraduate advisors for pre law and real life experience. Note that the LOWEST stats got in. All from the same university. All same SES.

Garbage advice is : “it’s just lsat and gpa”. Those days are over and just like undergrad, stats are just part of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law schools are going to be able to tell that she’s not that into it. Great schools will weed out an app like that and they certainly won’t give merit aid. It’s hard enough for any 24 year old to prove to law schools they can hack it, even with obvious recs, internships, and ECs to prove it. Law schools prefer older students.

I recommend she either wait until she’s sure it’s what she wants or can go into debt for the hobby of learning (if she can afford an expensive hobby.) I get it. I love learning too and I fully support intellectual curiosity but law school is no joke and you have to be committed. It also feels wrong to give merit aid to someone who is basically auditing classes instead of someone who will put their degree to work. I’d suggest she wait until she’s about 28 or 30 to decide.

Law schools look at GPA and LSAT. They don't try to figure out if you are interested in becoming an attorney.

This outdated advice.

If you are young, they will 100% be more reluctant to take you and look for evidence you are serious. And even then, they will likely pass you by assuming you can wait until you’re older. They do not want 22 year olds getting panic attacks or dropping out because they’re not ready for the pressure. For the most competitive schools, you have to have multiple internships related to law, not just related ECs. They don’t just want a high LSAT score, they want to know you’ll graduate and pass the bar.

Last year someone with a 3.7/168 got into Harvard but not their friends with 3.8/174 and 4.0/176. Guess which of the three kids had more unpaid internships? Guess which kids worked paid jobs unrelated to law?

It’s really bad advice to tell people it’s “grades and lsat”. Like undergrad, that is just the beginning.

What is your source ? This is total garbage advice.

Undergraduate advisors for pre law and real life experience. Note that the LOWEST stats got in. All from the same university. All same SES.

Garbage advice is : “it’s just lsat and gpa”. Those days are over and just like undergrad, stats are just part of it.

+1 I went to the UVA q&a for interested students and the dean was pretty blunt about this. It hurts your chances to be young, yield is incredibly important, and being smart enough isn’t enough. Stats get you a look but it’s much deeper than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law school admissions is changing and this may affect the availability of merit based scholarship awards from law schools. Some law schools are considering abandoning the LSAT and standardized testing as an admissions requirements while other law schools now accept the GRE in lieu of the LSAT.

Many law schools are refusing to supply US News with requested information. If US News stops rating & ranking law schools, then many merit based law school scholarships will disappear as merit scholarships were offered primarily to raise a particular law school's median admissions standards ( undergraduate GPA & LSAT score) in an effort to raise that law school's US News ranking.

[b]Currently the [b]American Bar Association requires colleges to require standardized testing.[/b] So it's not really something that schools can consider abandoning.

The ABA has gone back-and-forth on standardized testing as a requirement.

https://blog.accepted.com/aba-drops-lsat-requirement-beginning-in-2025/

But then:

https://reuters.com/legal/government/aba-pauses-move-nix-lsat-requirement-2023-05-12/

The ABA is just a voluntary trade association. I haven't belonged in decades when it swung left. It has no control over law schools. Deans do not care what it thinks. It can publish articles and suggested models all day long and no one in the legal field cares

This might be the single wrongest thing I’ve ever read here and that’s saying a lot. The US Dept of Education has recognized the ABA as the accrediting body for law schools across the country and it’s virtually impossible to join the bar as an attorney without earning a degree from an ABA-accredited law school (unless you read for the law like about 10 lawyers a year do)

As long as the ABA stipulates that law schools must require a standardized test for entry into an accredited law school (as they continue to do) then tests will remain

I confirm that the ABA accredit law schools, and law schools have to meet their requirements, down to writing requirements and number of instructional minutes. They send ABA reps to each law school every few years to review classes, policies, etc., ensuring compliance.

—Law prof

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law schools are going to be able to tell that she’s not that into it. Great schools will weed out an app like that and they certainly won’t give merit aid. It’s hard enough for any 24 year old to prove to law schools they can hack it, even with obvious recs, internships, and ECs to prove it. Law schools prefer older students.

I recommend she either wait until she’s sure it’s what she wants or can go into debt for the hobby of learning (if she can afford an expensive hobby.) I get it. I love learning too and I fully support intellectual curiosity but law school is no joke and you have to be committed. It also feels wrong to give merit aid to someone who is basically auditing classes instead of someone who will put their degree to work. I’d suggest she wait until she’s about 28 or 30 to decide.

Law schools look at GPA and LSAT. They don't try to figure out if you are interested in becoming an attorney.

This outdated advice.

Last year someone with a 3.7/168 got into Harvard but not their friends with 3.8/174 and 4.0/176. Guess which of the three kids had more unpaid internships? Guess which kids worked paid jobs unrelated to law?

It’s really bad advice to tell people it’s “grades and lsat”. Like undergrad, that is just the beginning.

HLS medians last year were 3.93/174

75th percentile were 3.99/176

So those friends weren’t in any way distinguished in the applicant pool

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/

I apologize for being stupid, but do stats like these refer to all applicants, those who were accepted, or those who enrolled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Law schools are going to be able to tell that she’s not that into it. Great schools will weed out an app like that and they certainly won’t give merit aid. It’s hard enough for any 24 year old to prove to law schools they can hack it, even with obvious recs, internships, and ECs to prove it. Law schools prefer older students.

I recommend she either wait until she’s sure it’s what she wants or can go into debt for the hobby of learning (if she can afford an expensive hobby.) I get it. I love learning too and I fully support intellectual curiosity but law school is no joke and you have to be committed. It also feels wrong to give merit aid to someone who is basically auditing classes instead of someone who will put their degree to work. I’d suggest she wait until she’s about 28 or 30 to decide.

Law schools look at GPA and LSAT. They don't try to figure out if you are interested in becoming an attorney.

This outdated advice.

Last year someone with a 3.7/168 got into Harvard but not their friends with 3.8/174 and 4.0/176. Guess which of the three kids had more unpaid internships? Guess which kids worked paid jobs unrelated to law?

It’s really bad advice to tell people it’s “grades and lsat”. Like undergrad, that is just the beginning.

HLS medians last year were 3.93/174

75th percentile were 3.99/176

So those friends weren’t in any way distinguished in the applicant pool

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/

I apologize for being stupid, but do stats like these refer to all applicants, those who were accepted, or those who enrolled?

Harvard law grad here - those stats are those of last year's incoming/have accepted and have shown up, class. So the class at the 75th percentile has a 3.999 and a 176 LSAT, which means 25% of the students have even higher scores and grades. Yes, it sounds impossible.