Discipline for excessive crying

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had kiddie yoga vids that we did that helped work on emotional regulation concepts. Maybe you could find on YT or Amazon? Some kids really DO lag re: emotional regulation, it's really important to model that for them and to step away when you need breaks.

I can’t step away unfortunately. There’s no one home with me to watch her. She’ll follow me room to room weeping and screaming. Those are usually our worst episodes because I desperately need a break, can’t get one, and get so, so overstimulated and frustrated with her.

I’d get some good earbuds and pipe in some music. At least that would greatly reduce the auditory part of the stress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

No no of course you shouldn’t do this when/if you are tapped out!
I just thought you refused out of principle.
I take my words back, then.

[Anonymous]

You’re on a journey that has no clear path. Your daughter sounds like my son. The super controlling high demands sound familiar to me. Age and time will help. (And OT which you can get without any diagnosis with most insurances since Obamacare.) In the meantime, I second the call for an indoor trampoline. I’d add in a sling-type swing she can get into and get movement stimulation, and lots of outdoor play because sun and wind will be good for both of you. Do plenty of Water play in the warmer weather if possible. Offer heavy pressure hugs and rocking if she’ll let you, and a small 3-5 pound weighted blanket. We cosleep because “sleeping “ my child is a verb in this house, and without sleep he’s worse.

We had my son in three day a week OT at age 2 and 3. If you’re in PG county or AA county, call MaryBeth Bray at My Kids Therapy. Get on a waiting list for OT eval and call back repeatedly to take a cancellation appointment any time. Seriously, this will help.

Also, in DC area in general, (actually worldwide because it’s online now) look into Raising Orchids parenting support. The leaders are really talented at helping with root causes, and we all have kids that have issues well beyond the chat in the neighborhood mom’s group- and our kids and selves are getting better with this support.

Try scheduled screen-time for breaks for you and her. People who don’t know, don’t know, so ignore conventional advice. My son has a complex diagnosis of adhd, anxiety, and asd but he’s really atypical, so we don’t share the asd diagnosis except with medical professionals. Try not to get too worried about what to call this (I understand feeling sad…), just focus on the symptoms. The crying is dysregulation, not bad behavior. Kids who can do well do, and my guess is she is holding it together everywhere else. You can look at some google info on sensory processing disorder and observe her like a scientist, you’ll be able to figure out what’s triggering and what helps. Is she an avoider, a seeker, a combination type?

I recommend the trampolines, swings, water, deep pressure because my son needs that. For years, He only slept with the top of his head pushed up against us. And when we swing him, he flies as close to 180 degrees back and forth as we can throw. (Get a safe sack-type swing).

The lack of sleep and need for control are familiar so maybe some of what works here will work for you. Good luck. I’m sure she’s a wonderful girl and you’re a strong mom!

One more thing, you might get her a lycra snuggle suit from Amazon. She can get inside and stretch he body, getting good physical sensory input in every direction. Laugh a lot, mom, some strategies for talking to pda kids might help in getting her more compliant, but don’t go too far down the pda rabbit hole. She’s still little!

[Anonymous]

Calming earplugs for you, that allow you to hear her but help reduce your stress response. Start small. Do a great morning routine with her. Then let her know you are going to a piece of house work. Empty the dishwasher, start or fold laundry - something small. Go do something for 10-15 minutes. If she starts melting down, calmly acknowledge she is unhappy, but that you will do something with her again in a bit. Gradually work up to longer stretches of time. It can also help to calmly sing while they are hollering. Helps keep you calm and communicates to them all is okay - even if they don't feel that way.

[Anonymous]

Twos teacher here. She sounds really dysregulated. and then you get dysregulated too, which I can understand -- it is stressful to be with an upset child who stays upset for long stretches.

Here a a good resource for creating a calm down corner for her, and teach her about it when she's not upset, so she can learn to use it. https://challengingbehavior.org/docs/Calm-Down-Area_Tipsheet.pdf

You can also model this. You can say, "I'm feeling upset right now, I need to take a break and try and calm my body down." You can talk to her about breathing in and out slowly, and that helps calm your body down. Practice this at times when she is not upset, so she can learn it and access it as she gets upset.

https://challengingbehavior.org/docs/Stay-Calm_Infographic.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Twos teacher here. She sounds really dysregulated. and then you get dysregulated too, which I can understand -- it is stressful to be with an upset child who stays upset for long stretches.

Here a a good resource for creating a calm down corner for her, and teach her about it when she's not upset, so she can learn to use it. https://challengingbehavior.org/docs/Calm-Down-Area_Tipsheet.pdf

You can also model this. You can say, "I'm feeling upset right now, I need to take a break and try and calm my body down." You can talk to her about breathing in and out slowly, and that helps calm your body down. Practice this at times when she is not upset, so she can learn it and access it as she gets upset.

https://challengingbehavior.org/docs/Stay-Calm_Infographic.pdf

Lmao

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all those saying autistic, that makes me really sad, but I’ve always thought it was a real possibility. So thanks for those comments. We’ll get her evaluated when she’s a little older.

Any suggestions on how to handle The crying in the meantime?

No, you need to get her evaluated now, because the developmental pediatrician will have resources and suggestions for you. Early intervention is key. Please keep in mind that there are long waiting times for an evaluation sometimes. Also keep in mind that you need answers ASAP because she will be eligible for special programs, as well as services and accommodations in school. Finally, it's never a one-and-done evaluation: there will be several in the course of her life, because she's very young, and each specialist will discover something more every few years.

She seems very bright, and if she is amenable to controlling her sensory overload and emotions, and easing her mental rigidity (all of which she can do with practice, ie, behavioral modification!), then I am sure she will be do great things later on!

In the meantime, look up resources for parenting ASD kids. Try to find something she can use to self-soothe. Right now, the crying is the self-soothing mechanism. You want to exchange it for something else. She sounds sensory-avoidant. My sensory-avoidant kid would jump on the trampoline for hours. He loved hearing me read books to him. Would she like the same thing? Audio books? Classical music? Try things that aren't necessarily kid-friendly - maybe she'll like them.

- wife and mother of twice exceptional ADHD/ASD humans.

Such a helpful response, thank you. OK. So many of you here have pushed me. I just googled our local pediatric developmental behavioral center and have the tab open to email Monday. I didn't actually realize you could diagnose or get evaluated so young. She has never been violent or aggressive or had any of the other obvious "problem" behaviors that are red flags and our pediatricians have always been so incredibly dismissive that it honestly never occurred to me there might be help for our particular challenges. Thank you.

And to the particular pp above, it hadn't occurred to me that the crying might be her form of self-soothing. Maybe because I can't tell what would be upsetting her so badly in so many of the situations in which she cries, so I wouldn't have thought she'd need soothing in those moments. You and another poster both talked about working with her during calm times to identify things that are soothing to her. The obvious ones like pacifiers and stuffed animals have never worked, so I'll work harder for non-conventional ones. Thank you.

PP you replied to. You're welcome. I know it can feel crazy-making to know your kid has issues that no one else is seeing! It happened to me, and it happens so often in these cases.

I'd like to remind everyone here that autism was first described as the "refrigerator mother" theory, when doctors mistakenly thought that emotionally distant mothers were responsible for maladjustment in their child. A very harmful theory indeed, which no one supports today, but you see how in this thread, people (and your own doctors) have questioned your parenting, your description of events and your suffering! It's so easy to fall into that trap of blaming the mother.

Best of luck going forward, OP. You are a good parent. Your child is a good child, even if right now life is terribly fraught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all those saying autistic, that makes me really sad, but I’ve always thought it was a real possibility. So thanks for those comments. We’ll get her evaluated when she’s a little older.

Any suggestions on how to handle The crying in the meantime?

No, you need to get her evaluated now, because the developmental pediatrician will have resources and suggestions for you. Early intervention is key. Please keep in mind that there are long waiting times for an evaluation sometimes. Also keep in mind that you need answers ASAP because she will be eligible for special programs, as well as services and accommodations in school. Finally, it's never a one-and-done evaluation: there will be several in the course of her life, because she's very young, and each specialist will discover something more every few years.

She seems very bright, and if she is amenable to controlling her sensory overload and emotions, and easing her mental rigidity (all of which she can do with practice, ie, behavioral modification!), then I am sure she will be do great things later on!

In the meantime, look up resources for parenting ASD kids. Try to find something she can use to self-soothe. Right now, the crying is the self-soothing mechanism. You want to exchange it for something else. She sounds sensory-avoidant. My sensory-avoidant kid would jump on the trampoline for hours. He loved hearing me read books to him. Would she like the same thing? Audio books? Classical music? Try things that aren't necessarily kid-friendly - maybe she'll like them.

- wife and mother of twice exceptional ADHD/ASD humans.

Such a helpful response, thank you. OK. So many of you here have pushed me. I just googled our local pediatric developmental behavioral center and have the tab open to email Monday. I didn't actually realize you could diagnose or get evaluated so young. She has never been violent or aggressive or had any of the other obvious "problem" behaviors that are red flags and our pediatricians have always been so incredibly dismissive that it honestly never occurred to me there might be help for our particular challenges. Thank you.

And to the particular pp above, it hadn't occurred to me that the crying might be her form of self-soothing. Maybe because I can't tell what would be upsetting her so badly in so many of the situations in which she cries, so I wouldn't have thought she'd need soothing in those moments. You and another poster both talked about working with her during calm times to identify things that are soothing to her. The obvious ones like pacifiers and stuffed animals have never worked, so I'll work harder for non-conventional ones. Thank you.

PP you replied to. You're welcome. I know it can feel crazy-making to know your kid has issues that no one else is seeing! It happened to me, and it happens so often in these cases.

I'd like to remind everyone here that autism was first described as the "refrigerator mother" theory, when doctors mistakenly thought that emotionally distant mothers were responsible for maladjustment in their child. A very harmful theory indeed, which no one supports today, [url]but you see how in this thread, people (and your own doctors) have questioned your parenting, your description of events and your suffering! It's so easy to fall into that trap of blaming the mother.[b]

Best of luck going forward, OP. You are a good parent. Your child is a good child, even if right now life is terribly fraught.

Ok but the mother does play a role. If not, then what is even the point of mothering if it has no effect on our children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

Both things can be true, in my experience. When a child tends to be dysregulated parents can end up walking on eggshells and accomodating constantly. Therapy really helped me create a balance.

For my DS, I know that at 2-3 he was very intimidated by group settings outside of the home and was very very quiet there. There were also very few demands. He was uninterested in interacting with peers, so there were no problems. At home, different story. But around 3 he started to notice his surroundings at preschool and recognize peers as obstacles, and also face more demands on his behavior. Then all h*ll broke loose!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To all those saying autistic, that makes me really sad, but I’ve always thought it was a real possibility. So thanks for those comments. We’ll get her evaluated when she’s a little older.

Any suggestions on how to handle The crying in the meantime?

No, you need to get her evaluated now, because the developmental pediatrician will have resources and suggestions for you. Early intervention is key. Please keep in mind that there are long waiting times for an evaluation sometimes. Also keep in mind that you need answers ASAP because she will be eligible for special programs, as well as services and accommodations in school. Finally, it's never a one-and-done evaluation: there will be several in the course of her life, because she's very young, and each specialist will discover something more every few years.

She seems very bright, and if she is amenable to controlling her sensory overload and emotions, and easing her mental rigidity (all of which she can do with practice, ie, behavioral modification!), then I am sure she will be do great things later on!

In the meantime, look up resources for parenting ASD kids. Try to find something she can use to self-soothe. Right now, the crying is the self-soothing mechanism. You want to exchange it for something else. She sounds sensory-avoidant. My sensory-avoidant kid would jump on the trampoline for hours. He loved hearing me read books to him. Would she like the same thing? Audio books? Classical music? Try things that aren't necessarily kid-friendly - maybe she'll like them.

- wife and mother of twice exceptional ADHD/ASD humans.

Such a helpful response, thank you. OK. So many of you here have pushed me. I just googled our local pediatric developmental behavioral center and have the tab open to email Monday. I didn't actually realize you could diagnose or get evaluated so young. She has never been violent or aggressive or had any of the other obvious "problem" behaviors that are red flags and our pediatricians have always been so incredibly dismissive that it honestly never occurred to me there might be help for our particular challenges. Thank you.

And to the particular pp above, it hadn't occurred to me that the crying might be her form of self-soothing. Maybe because I can't tell what would be upsetting her so badly in so many of the situations in which she cries, so I wouldn't have thought she'd need soothing in those moments. You and another poster both talked about working with her during calm times to identify things that are soothing to her. The obvious ones like pacifiers and stuffed animals have never worked, so I'll work harder for non-conventional ones. Thank you.

PP you replied to. You're welcome. I know it can feel crazy-making to know your kid has issues that no one else is seeing! It happened to me, and it happens so often in these cases.

I'd like to remind everyone here that autism was first described as the "refrigerator mother" theory, when doctors mistakenly thought that emotionally distant mothers were responsible for maladjustment in their child. A very harmful theory indeed, which no one supports today, [url]but you see how in this thread, people (and your own doctors) have questioned your parenting, your description of events and your suffering! It's so easy to fall into that trap of blaming the mother.[b]

Best of luck going forward, OP. You are a good parent. Your child is a good child, even if right now life is terribly fraught.

Ok but the mother does play a role. If not, then what is even the point of mothering if it has no effect on our children?

the PARENTS have a role. OP did not cause her daughter’s neurological differences but can adjust her parenting to affect her behavior, to a certain extent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

hmm and why do you think that is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple thoughts for you, from someone who has gone through toddler hell and come out the other side.

She will literally cry for hours until and unless you do exactly what she wants or I get so frustrated I distract/redirect her, which only works some of the time.

This makes me wonder how often you change your no to a yes. Or if you can sometimes be worn down to start offering bribes (“Want more snack? Would watching a show help you feel better? If you stop crying, you can go with Mommy to Starbucks and get a hot chocolate.”) Basically, I wonder if what started as legitimate high-needs behavior is getting reinforced and rewarded.

You also mention that she will follow you from room to room, weeping wailing. What happens when she does? Do you interact with her? (“Larla, you need to stop crying. Larla! Take deep breaths. Larla, let’s breathe together. Iiiiin and ouuuuuuut.”) Or do you cheerfully go about your business? (“Mommy is going into the family room to fold this laundry. Hmmm, I wonder where the other blue sock is.”)

My two cents would be to help her name her feelings (“You’re thinking about how good a sandwich would taste right now, and are frustrated that I can’t make one while I’m driving”), but don’t get sucked into the theatricality they generate. Acknowledge them, but don’t try to solve them. (“I like sandwiches too. Wouldn’t it be great if we could push a button in the car and have it make us a sandwich?”)

“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen” is an oldie but a goodie. Consistency is hard, but so important. Above all, don’t negotiate with terrorists. Give her tons of attention when she’s calm, but grey rock when the dramatics start.

I never offer bribes, and I never ever change no to yes. I do sometimes eventually redirect, which I thought I wasn’t supposed to do because you’re supposed to give them a chance to self-regulate.

While she’s crying and following me, I’m usually trying to ignore while occasionally acknowledging and affirming: “You’re so Upset I won’t sit on the floor and hold your bear for you.” Yes. That’s very hard.”

I think it’s totally fine to sit on the floor and hold her bear unless you are busy with something else or too tired/upset. Don’t deny it out of principle.
-pp who first suggested ASD

And that is what I did for about the first 18 months of her life. Her demands have always been utterly relentless. Sit here, hold this, give me this, do this, say this. At first I thought I was nurturing a strong sense of self and her preferences so I thought it was fine. But as time has gone on I feel like it's not healthy to act like her slave all day. To be clear, she wants me to do something for her nearly every second of the day. It's not just hold the bear once. It's hold the bear, then sit on a specific spot on the floor, no chair allowed, then put this thing on a doll, then say a word this way not that way...it never ends. So I feel I have to refuse a lot of these requests because it's exhausting and also feels extreme and unhealthy. Where should I draw the line?

This is an interesting observation and is something I have observed from some women who stay at home with their kids and also children with overly indulgent mothers. It’s like the mom or nanny works for the kids and it can’t be healthy in the long term. This kind of dynamic is only possible when a mom has few kids and not a lot going or, or a FT nanny.



There’s a possibility your child just got off on the wrong foot when you indulged the child a great bit. A less gentle way to say it is that your child is spoiled. You demonstrated to your child that she’s in charge and your her space to cater to her every need. You don’t have other things to do - it all revolves around your child. All kids are self-centered, but yours is on another level.

Simply ignore your kid. Wear earplugs. I find it hard to believe your child doesn’t act like this with others, but continues to do so with you, and you’re not encouraging the behavior in some way. It’s like the parents who tell you their kids won’t sleep but whenever the kid screams at night they are in their room to comfort them.

Another solution is to put your child in all-day daycare or preschool next school year.

I agree to a certain extent, but she’s been this extreme and needy from birth. Our night doulas agreed she’s the worst sleeper they’ve ever seen, and they are professionals at this. And as an infant, she was this challenging with everyone, not just me. So I do think she’s high needs but yes, I probably accidentally made it worse by being available and not knowing when to say no.

Since she was born have you been away for a few days apart from her? Do you go out for an afternoon without her, or go on date nights?

The moms I know with these high need babies/toddlers never seem to be apart from their kid.

hmm and why do you think that is?

Because they think they are being good parents but they are actually being the opposite.

They aren’t establishing boundaries and are teaching their child that they work for the child and have nothing going on outside of their child.