I hate being stuck at $230k HHI and feel poor AF

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that OP feels poor because her DH makes half her income.

It is a paucity mentality that comes from not marrying a good provider for a DH. Also, no kids is fine, but, if they do have kids, the mom may not be able to work or take time off because she is the bread-winner.

OP feels poor because she is in a catch-22 situation. I bet she cannot even get out of this marriage because she will have to pay alimony.

NP but this is such a stupid attitude. I make over twice as much as my husband (we both make about $20K more than OP and her husband each). We have two kids and DH works from home full-time which gives us SO MUCH flexibility with the kids. If DH made more money, he'd probably have to work more hours and we'd never see him. I much prefer our current scenario. OP is just dumb and doesn't know how to manage her money. This has nothing to do with her husband (unless he's a big spender and the reason they aren't saving).

It depends on the individuals. In your case, your DH has a flexible job and it sounds like he pulls his weight. That's not true for everyone. It's not uncommon in marriages where women outearn men for the women to STILL be the default parent. If your DH made what he currently makes now, but his job was not flexible and he wasn't picking up your slack at home, how would you feel about his income?

OP doesn't have kids so I don't think this applies to her, but I know with kids it's a serious issue. Even men who think they want to be equal parenting partners sometimes change their tune once the baby comes along. My DH talked a big game but then pulled a lot of classing man BS once our kid was born -- re re-negged on taking paternity leave alone with the baby (claimed work wouldn't let him but really he was scared), avoided any task he found at all unpleasant, refused to take the lead on anything kid related, etc. Dealing with that behavior PLUS earning double his income? Would have made me livid.

[Anonymous]

Single mom here and I make 1/2 of your HHI in base income, bonus plus OT is good for another 20-30k a year, plus another 3,000+ a month in child support (that is rarely paid on time), 1.7 mil in retirement and investments, 60k in cash, no car payment and a sub 1k mortgage and I’m always fearful of it all falling apart and I always feel like there isn’t enough money, but you know what? I also know that much of my fear is in my head…

There will never be enough money to make me feel comfortable. It’s my personality it always has been. At first it was fun, but then it started to weigh me down. So I started spending some of it on fun stuff. Travel mostly.

No doubt I’ll drop dead way before I get to enjoy the fruits of my labor and it will all go to my DD who I hope will at least enjoy it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that OP feels poor because her DH makes half her income.

It is a paucity mentality that comes from not marrying a good provider for a DH. Also, no kids is fine, but, if they do have kids, the mom may not be able to work or take time off because she is the bread-winner.

OP feels poor because she is in a catch-22 situation. I bet she cannot even get out of this marriage because she will have to pay alimony.

NP but this is such a stupid attitude. I make over twice as much as my husband (we both make about $20K more than OP and her husband each). We have two kids and DH works from home full-time which gives us SO MUCH flexibility with the kids. If DH made more money, he'd probably have to work more hours and we'd never see him. I much prefer our current scenario. OP is just dumb and doesn't know how to manage her money. This has nothing to do with her husband (unless he's a big spender and the reason they aren't saving).

It depends on the individuals. In your case, your DH has a flexible job and it sounds like he pulls his weight. That's not true for everyone. It's not uncommon in marriages where women outearn men for the women to STILL be the default parent. If your DH made what he currently makes now, but his job was not flexible and he wasn't picking up your slack at home, how would you feel about his income?

OP doesn't have kids so I don't think this applies to her, but I know with kids it's a serious issue. Even men who think they want to be equal parenting partners sometimes change their tune once the baby comes along. My DH talked a big game but then pulled a lot of classing man BS once our kid was born -- re re-negged on taking paternity leave alone with the baby (claimed work wouldn't let him but really he was scared), avoided any task he found at all unpleasant, refused to take the lead on anything kid related, etc. Dealing with that behavior PLUS earning double his income? Would have made me livid.

You're quoting me and my DH only started working from home about a year ago, and actually worked in person all through Covid where I was home managing one kid virtual schooling and another kid in daycare. No, I absolutely did not resent him, he had a job to do and unfortunately he had to be in person to do it. I'm so sorry that you and other people have such shitty relationships with their spouses. WOW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I make 150k and my spouse around 75k. After yearly bonuses, we pull in about 230k. It sucks. I constantly, constantly feel like we still have to watch our spending and can never relax and spend without worrying. Every time the car or house needs to be fixed, I cringe. Every time I go to the grocery store, I cringe spending $120.

We do not have an insane mortgage. We took out $540k, which is only 2.4x our income....not absurd. A lot of pain is self inflicted....I max out my 401k while my spouse puts away 13%. Yet I constantly feel stretched and feel like we live paycheck to paycheck too much. We have zero kids. I'm reading this forum and seeing people making $150k or so claiming they have $60k in saving for emergencies $700k+ in retirements, and no problems upgrading their house or paying for repairs. Wtf? How is this possible?

If we make this much and feel terrible about finances God help the rest of Americans and their median HHIs below $70k. Basically, no one is saving anything for retirement? I can't imagine needing a $1800 in car repairs and making $70k hhi.

You're hardly poor (we make less than you) but you make a good point about the rest of the US. I think its true - the masses are not saving for retirement. I have no idea how this is all going to play out....

[Anonymous]

You are definitely doing something seriously wrong. Seek financial counseling (not investment advice) to figure out what that is.

You should be living a very comfortable life. You have to figure if the problem is in your head or your habits (e.g., extravagant cars, eating out too much, spending too much in gifts/clothes/hobbies/vacations , whatever).

(I am so glad to have come from a middle class family because it is second nature for me to live within/beneath our means)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is your net worth, OP?

In total, only about $280k.

It took a long time to pay off student loans, then got hit with job losses which blew up savings, then had to go to grad school to break through a glass ceiling.....I've really only had a stable professional job for about 5 years. Life has sucked and thrown S my way multiple times. So yes, that's why I have no choice but to max 401k as much as I can because I got destroyed by student loans, recessions, job losses, and time spent for more education to try to advace my career.

But you were able to pay cash for the sidewalk repair and the car repair, right? That's amazing. Most Americans could not have done that. Celebrate your wealth!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are definitely doing something seriously wrong. Seek financial counseling (not investment advice) to figure out what that is.

You should be living a very comfortable life. You have to figure if the problem is in your head or your habits (e.g., extravagant cars, eating out too much, spending too much in gifts/clothes/hobbies/vacations , whatever).

(I am so glad to have come from a middle class family because it is second nature for me to live within/beneath our means)

OP isn't doing anything wrong. He's not extravagant and has no debt. The issue is that his income is, on paper, a very good HHI, but in reality it simply means he lives a decently comfortable life. Judging from this thread, it seems that is main "luxury" is being able to max out his retirement benefits and that is where the surplus money is going. The irony is that we're supposed to be responsible and max out our retirements, yet apparently in doing so we're also criticized for not checking our privilege when we also wonder why we aren't having a lavish lifestyle people assume you get with a higher HHI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that OP feels poor because her DH makes half her income.

It is a paucity mentality that comes from not marrying a good provider for a DH. Also, no kids is fine, but, if they do have kids, the mom may not be able to work or take time off because she is the bread-winner.

OP feels poor because she is in a catch-22 situation. I bet she cannot even get out of this marriage because she will have to pay alimony.

There is something to this. I mean, if no kids I think it's less of a big deal. But I have always outearned my DH and it became a real issue when we had a kid because he doesn't pull his weight with childcare but he also makes way less so he's not helping to outsource any of it either. It results in a LOT of resentment because if I'm going to be the breadwinner by a lot, at the very least I expect him to make it easier for me to do my job by contributing more at home. Instead he sets his job up to be as inflexible as possible (I do drop off and pick up on my own three days a week because he claims he has to be in the office by 8am on days he's in the office, and his commute is further so he's never home in time for pick up either) and is totally checked out on a lot of kid-centric tasks like school, camp, and activities.

We actually had a pretty egalitarian marriage before kids and therefore the income imbalance didn't bother me, but I really underestimated how much of the parenting would fall to me by default, and how little he'd do to counteract that. So now I look at his income and it annoys me because I'm exhausted all the time, do so much more at home and with our kid, and yet he fights me tooth and nail on anything that might make my life easier (house cleaners, additional childcare, meal kits, etc.) because he claims we "can't afford it."

Whatever, people on here will tell me "you married him" and I did, but I also think this is a broader problem about men not doing their fair share and it's why, if I had it to do over again, I'd look for a partner who earned as much if not more than me because then when he didn't help at home or with kids, at least I could remind myself that he was an equal partner or even the breadwinner financially, and that's a meaningful contribution.

I am a sahm married to a good earner.

As a wohm I was making 1/4 of what my DH was making. Childcare and household planning and logistics inevitably fell on me because in-spite of my DH being a very involved family man (he cooks), he was myopic in terms of what was needed for a smooth running home and for the best interests of the kids. And since I was a lowly paid worker bee at work, I did not have the flexibility to take off at work or wfh as he did. He had to put in his share of parent duty.

My DH at first threw money at the problem - cleaners, cook, landscaper etc. But, they also need to be managed. Eventually, even with all of that, there was work to be done at home and things ere stressful. Also, he (and I) had a vision for how life would go for our kids and that was not happening even with childcare. Finally, he begged me to be at home and I told him that I needed all the outsourcing that was in place and more. And I was never going back to work ever again in this life. Once, I had my financial security in place - I became a sahm.

Although I had always wanted a career, and it hurt a lot to give up my dream, I did feel immense satisfaction for my time with my kids and that became my new dream. I also have made the most of my situation and I would say that I am happy and fulfilled.

I tell my DD to plan wisely so that she can have a career, get married to a high earner and live close to us so that I can help. I intend to do the same for my future DIL.

Heh I'm sure your future DIL can't wait to hear your advice about how she should live close to you for her own good. Your daughter probably loves that advice, too.

Hopefully, ds will marry a girl from our culture and not someone from the culture of DCUM DILs. If he does he too will have wpp. You cannot protect your kids from all idiocy.

Get with the times lady. I come from a very conservative culture and young women getting married now can’t stand their MIL’s and do everything in their power to live far away from them.

You are assuming that your very conservative culture is the same as my culture.

I am with the times. Also, very aware of the unequal pay/inflexible jobs/substandard childcare/child's education/household realities that most mothers face in this country. The kind of childcare, emotional/financial support that is provided by parents to their ACs in our culture is the kind of help that DCUM posters rage that they don't have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that OP feels poor because her DH makes half her income.

It is a paucity mentality that comes from not marrying a good provider for a DH. Also, no kids is fine, but, if they do have kids, the mom may not be able to work or take time off because she is the bread-winner.

OP feels poor because she is in a catch-22 situation. I bet she cannot even get out of this marriage because she will have to pay alimony.

NP but this is such a stupid attitude. I make over twice as much as my husband (we both make about $20K more than OP and her husband each). We have two kids and DH works from home full-time which gives us SO MUCH flexibility with the kids. If DH made more money, he'd probably have to work more hours and we'd never see him. I much prefer our current scenario. OP is just dumb and doesn't know how to manage her money. This has nothing to do with her husband (unless he's a big spender and the reason they aren't saving).

Do you have blinders on or are you stupid and dumb? Or are you humble bragging? Your DH is at home. You make $40K more than OP. You already have 2 kids and your DH is working from home and that gives you a lot of flexibility.

That is not the reality of OP. Her DH is not working from home. He is not available to provide her flexibility. There is no reason to think that by making less money her DH can work from home like your husband. Your example is not replicable. OP has the entire hard journey of pregnancy, birth, and the care of young children ahead of her if she choose to even have kids.

She is more stuck at $230k HHI than you are at $270K HHI with 2 kids and an at-home spouse.

OP has no kids. What flexibility would she want from DH? She is in her 40s. I don't think she is planning to have kids.
This is not what she complained about. She complained about $230k not being enough money for DINKS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. I'm a single mom to two college-aged kids, and we live off $110k/mo plus $1200/mo child support, which covers my mortgage.

Where do you live? And how are you paying for college?

I live in Anacostia. I bought 17 years ago. We use DC Tag, financial aid, and the rest out of pocket. I made sure my kids went to schools that were affordable.

Wow. I’m also a single mom, 120k, one rising HS freshman, $750/month child support, bought in Anacostia 15 years ago. Not used to these stats on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

“Our Income”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
This year has been bad. We had to spend $10k installing brand new brick steps because the stairs to our house were terrible, crumbling, and.had a bad foundation. Right exact at the same.time, a bad storm ruined our fence and we had to replace 100' for about $4k. Simultaneously, our 2016 Mazda needed a lot of maintenance and required about $4000 in repairs etc. Just non-stop hit after hit.

The $10,000 repair for new brick steps was a surprise I am sure. Did you have anything already budgeted for home repair?

Was $10,000 the cheapest repair you could do? Did you get a few quotes? I would think that rebuilding new steps to like a porch would be more like $5000-$7000 and I wonder how good you are at finding the cheapest acceptable options. The same thing for the $4000 for 100 ' of fence. Did you get three quotes first?

What was wrong with your Mazda? Are you going to the dealer or to a local mechanic? Are you getting fleeced basically?

$10k for the steps was quite fair. It was a massive job. The mason we hired was excellent. Yes, I got multiple quotes. I didn't go with the cheapest job because we also wanted quality work that would last forever. He had to dig like 5-8 feet down in order to get below the frost line and build a brand new foundation. The stairs were damaged because it had a bad foundation..he did incredible, beautiful work.

The fence was also from multiple quotes. We actually got a good deal on the 100' of fencing. Other places were quoting way higher. They built it from scratch. Good quality job.

The Mazda needed all new suspension, spark plugs, brakes, etc. etc. They ended up finding issues like cracked control arms and needed to replace struts. ... basically a complete overhaul. It added up quick with all of the other maintenance. It has 110k miles, so much of the repairs and maintenance are due to the age of the car. And I've been going to the same mechanic for 10+ years..he's never ripped me off.

OK. So with a car with 110,000 miles, you could definitely expect you will need to save for repairs. You need to send $200-$400 every month. Repairs should be zero surprise.

The $10,000 steps- I guess that was necessary. Yes at $230,000 income level a $10,000 repair will hurt! (Our HHI is $170,000 so I understand) still how much do you already set aside for home maintenance? You need to do that.

Not OP but OP never said that they didn't have money to pay for the home and car repairs. They paid for it. It's just that these expenses eat up a lot of money and $230k is a lot of money as people think.

Yes the underlying problem doesn’t seem to be OP’s actual expenses so much as OP “feeling poor” because unexpected large expenses have an impact on her savings. I think she just needs to reframe her thinking to “feel rich” when she *can* afford these expenses at all without having to take out loans or go hungry.

Exactly, it sounds like OP's finances are actually just fine. It's more a question of psychology.

I agree with this. I also think a lot of people spend money on things they think are a standard expense, but they are actually a luxury. They don’t understand that most people aren’t spending money on these things or that being able to elect a more luxurious/expensive option means you have means.

I have a few friends who are like this. They complain about money but spend so much on things that aren’t a necessity. They don’t view their wants are wants, but needs, and when they spend all their money on those wants and don’t have much left, they cry poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This year has been bad. We had to spend $10k installing brand new brick steps because the stairs to our house were terrible, crumbling, and.had a bad foundation. Right exact at the same.time, a bad storm ruined our fence and we had to replace 100' for about $4k. Simultaneously, our 2016 Mazda needed a lot of maintenance and required about $4000 in repairs etc. Just non-stop hit after hit.

We just let ours crumble and sock the money into 401k and college funds.

The $10,000 repair for new brick steps was a surprise I am sure. Did you have anything already budgeted for home repair?

Was $10,000 the cheapest repair you could do? Did you get a few quotes? I would think that rebuilding new steps to like a porch would be more like $5000-$7000 and I wonder how good you are at finding the cheapest acceptable options. The same thing for the $4000 for 100 ' of fence. Did you get three quotes first?

What was wrong with your Mazda? Are you going to the dealer or to a local mechanic? Are you getting fleeced basically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yawn. Your house was too expensive. You have plenty of money. We make far less and bought a house much less than yours and are plenty comfortable.

Explain how 2.4x hhi mortgage is too expensive.

I don't think the house is too much, it's everything else. Plug your credit/debit cards into Rocket Money or one of those other tracking apps; it will automatically tell you where all that money is going. You don't make enough income to go to a sit-down restaurant every weekend AND order food delivery twice a week AND take an airplane vacation every year AND get hair/nails every month and and and.

Run the numbers and see where it is all going.

[Anonymous]

Leave DC. I didn't start to feel comfortable in the DC area til we crested 700k.