This is the first year in 13 years that I have completely dropped the rope with DH’s family

[Anonymous]

Also, as mentioned before I don't like my in laws, but it's not sexist for me to remind my husband to plan a visit with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, as mentioned before I don't like my in laws, but it's not sexist for me to remind my husband to plan a visit with them.

I don’t think anyone is saying it is sexist for you to choose to do that on your own. What would be sexist is expecting you to do that because you’re a woman, excusing him from responsibility because he’s a man, and placing all the blame on you when he fails.

[Anonymous]

I’m celebrating with you, OP. Good for you. Ignore the ignorant, guilting responses you’re about to get on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

There’s an easy solution. Your nephew can step up and access restored!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After a horrific blow up last spring in which I was blamed and made the scapegoat. In the summer I said to him, no more. I don’t mind seeing them but you will do 100% of the hosting and need to be home for 100% of their visit- taking off work if necessary.

Therefore, for the holidays this year we are:

Not seeing or hosting them (he never planned it)

Not exchanging adult gifts (he decided he didn’t want to do it despite me saying that for years)

Also, he was in charge of giving them all the kids gift ideas as they want specific links to things to buy for the kids and want to chose from the options. He keeps complaining about this and it’s unclear if he’s done it as of today (I have provided these links the last 13 years).

I feel so free and happier than I have been in years! Why didn’t I do this earlier?!

I will one day advise my adult daughter- do not do the work for the husbands family, make him step up and do it. You cannot win. If you do it well, no one seems to care and you have just done a ton of work. If you mess up, you’ll be criticized. None of this is good for your marriage or yourself.

Yeah OP! Great job! I am the OP who started the damned if you do... thread, and I completely agree with you. If we (the moms) did not put forth all our effort, nothing would get done, until it becomes too much. The husbands are not helpless, they are grown men, they can deal with their families. Now, we give the young adult cousins money (I have to remind him that they thought his amount was too cheap), and DH has to buy his parents their gifts. He also does an annual gift for the whole family, that no matter how many times I remind him, he will order it last minute. Maybe they should remind him!

I would try so hard, and nothing would ever be good enough, so what is the point?

We barely feel welcome at the family dinners (we rotate 3 or 4 holidays per year, and are glad to host our rotation), after all we have done for the family.

Well done for you, I say!

Wow. Then the next year, they should get nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m celebrating with you, OP. Good for you. Ignore the ignorant, guilting responses you’re about to get on this thread.

Girl, I am! L’chaim!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

Excuses, excuses. He has time to make a phone call and book tickets (if necessary) online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.

If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.

Nope. Join us in 2022.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

That's on your nephew, not his wife.

You are absolutely correct. It’s my nephew who is primarily at fault here. But the reality is that he is working crazy hours and traveling constantly and has little time. His wife has much more flexibility to make these kinds of things happen. She is the stay at home. It is not her “fault”. But the net result is the same. We rarely see them. It’s easy to say the obvious things that she is not responsible. And she isn’t. But it’s the kids that miss out.

You are still blaming the niece? It is plain as day that your nephew does not care that his kids have no relationship with you and your family. He does not care.

If the nephew’s wife is SAH then yes the responsibility really should be hers. It’s sort of part of the deal. If he’s busting his buns to support her and the family she can reach out on his behalf.

DP here. I really don't care how many hours he works. If his family is difficult, HE gets to deal with them, gifts included.

Nope sorry. That’s not how it works if you are the SAH. Unless they are pure evil or something. Giving them some gift ideas really isn’t the “emotional labor” you think it is.

Nope, sorry. That IS how it works. They are HIS family and it is HIS responsibility. I’m quite sure his big fancy office and big fancy hotels have phones and internet for him to make plans with HIS family and order gifts online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maintaining relationships with one's family of origin is not a spouse's responsibility under any circumstances. I never even contemplated picking up a rope when we got married. DH can be as close or as distant from his family as he wants. I support him in his action or inaction. This has never been an issue in our marriage.

Well goody two shoes for you.

Oh. You’re 12. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

Why is that the OP’s problem??

Good for you, OP! I did the same when my kids were younger and shocker: my DH didn’t pick up any of the physical or emotional labor. That has, indeed, resulted in a less close relationship with his side of the family but how/why am I supposed to do everything for both sides?!?!

There’s that ridiculous ohrase again - “emotional labor”. Gag! Stop with that nonsense. Maintaining relationships is not “liabor”. I’m not saying you have to put the work into his side of the family but that term you keep using is utter crap.

Since it's so easy, why don't you do it for her then?

My dh doesn't even know if/when we're visiting his parents (who are a 3 hour drive away) over the Christmas holidays. Yes, Christmas is in 6 days. His family could help him by picking up the phone and calling but they won't. He's slammed. I work even longer hours, make more money, and have already planned everything else for our family and kids. No way am I adding to my burden.

Your first comment is just childish. You sound like a toddler.

As for the rest, we’ll then sure. If YOU are carrying the bigger load with money and career, yes HE should do the “emotional labor” more. See how it works? It’s called team work.

So just to be clear, you judge the amount of work someone is doing by the amount of money they make doing it?

I judged YOUR comments on YOUR situation.

OK, first of all, I'm a different poster -- there are more than one of us here who disagree with you.

Second of all, you said:

If YOU are carrying the bigger load with money and career, yes HE should do the “emotional labor” more. See how it works? It’s called team work

I want to know if you mean that money/career = the bigger load.

It says “bigger load with money and career”. The indication is that if there is a SAH partner, that partner should take on more of the domestic duties of which “emotional labor” tends to traditionally fall under. That division of the family responsibilities - one partner more career/money, the other more domestic- is as old as time. No where did I say that money/ career =the bigger load of the responsibilities. That was what YOU read into it. What YOU wanted to see. The work is pretty evenly divided. And that division of labor obviously looks different when both partners are working. I am only commenting on the SAH partner situation.

It's weird that you think you get to decide how a family with a SAHP divides up the labor. Do you also have strong feelings on who does the taxes or mows the lawn?

I seem to have touched a nerve. Go have a cup of tea and relax.

LOL! Who else had “I Touched A Nerve” on their predictable PP Bingo Card? I did, right underneath “You’re Just Jealous.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every argument on this board about sex and division of labor can be broken down into two factions: those who believe that, on avg, men and women have the exact same aptitude for emotional intelligence and executive functioning , and those who believe that, on avg, these skill sets differ noticably btwn the sexes.

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. That being said, my in-laws kind of irritate me and I have long since delegated direct communication and logistical planning to my DH. But the fact remains that if I didn't remind and actively encourage my DH to plan visits, it would never happen. Not bc he doesn't love them or want to see them and make sure they have a good relationship with our kids, but bc he just doesn't operate in a world where maintaining relations (outside of our marriage) is a priority. From talking to friends, I don't think he's that much of an outlier.

I think if you don't want to directly communicate with in laws and leave it to dh there can be good reasons for that, but if you take on literally every other aspect of your family's social lives except for in-law maintenance, you owe it to your kids and spouse to provide some reminders to your spouse to get it done

You completely missed the point. The arguments aren't about aptitudes but about gendered roles. Specifically, that women should be managing familial relationships.

As a DW and mother of peole with ADHD/Executive Functioning xhallenges, there are a zh!t ton of compensating techiques that can be employed to compensate for weaknesses IF the relationships are deemed important. EQ/EF are explanations, not excuses. It is unacceptable to delegate based on gender.

Agree 1 million %

Ok, but if one spouse is handling all aspects of family social life except the in-law maintenance, then they need to be honest about why that's the one thing they won't touch with a 10 ft pole. I agree with posters who say it's the kids who lose. If you wouldn't let your DH handle the rest of the family social calendar bc it would impact you and or the kids negatively, this shouldn't be treated any differently.

Do you not know what Google calendar is? THAT is the familt calendar. If my DH wants to do something with his family, all he needs to do is CHECK THE CALENDAR. He then needs to PUT it on the calendar and send me an invite.

Maintaing a calendar is a life skill that every single person needs to have. People with EF especially need it. If the can do it for work, they xan do it for family.

And the kids don't lose. They learn that people, including their fathers, will make an effort when they deem it worthy. If their paternal relatives wznt z relationship, they, too can make an effort. Another important lesson is to recognize the misogyny that makes women responsible for managing relationships simply because their female.

There's a big difference btwn scheduling a dentist appointment and maintaining relationships. What other relationships does DH handle for your family? Playdates? Sleepovers? Carpools? If he handles those things too, then those tasks are evenly distributed. If he doesn't, then it's odd to single out this single relationship. You know he doesn't do those things well, and you know he'll let the relationship with the inlaws slide. If you like the inlaws, you wouldn't let this happen bc that would negatively impact the kids and you. But if you dislike the inlaws, its a relief.

I don't think you realize that not everyone feels the same way you do. If my DH wants our kids to have a relationship with his family, he can make that happen. His family can make that happen. I have enough on my plate and do not choose to take up a burden that 'family' has chosen to drop. You may think that negatively impacts kids, I certainly don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if this is a generational thing. Millennial here - and I agree with the PP who said she does not recognize this dynamic in her marriage. For those in the thick of it, how does it begin? I am newly (ish) married, and I guess I just can’t imagine my in laws calling me instead of their son (my DH) to plan things, even though we are really close. So, my question is, how does this dynamic develop in a family?

I’m Gen X. My husband is 55. He has always handled everything with his family. And he is really good at it. He is generally more thoughtful than I am when it comes to gift giving, etc. He is also just really close with his family — my family is more complicated and not as close. His family is an hour away and we see them once or twice a month. But the reality is that this is unusual. For many generations, the expectation was that the wife managed the family/home front. And this still exists as shown in a boatload of studies about what division of labor looks like. It starts with your MIL calling the “new wife” to organize the holidays. It starts with women doing all the Xmas shopping. It starts with the idea that the mom controls access to the kids. [u]I know so many in the grandparent generation (varying from being in their 50s-80s) that completely blame the wife if they don’t get enough phone calls from their sons, etc. I usually gently call them out on it, but they don’t change their minds.

This may be getting better, but it still exists for many families.

Well summarized, pp. I’d also add that the ILs get tired of asking their son questions that he doesn’t know the answer and want to cut to the chase (wife). How many dads can come up with more than one gift idea or are aware of school/holiday obligations for the entire family?

Well, if you continue to infantilize them and allow them to employ weaponized incompetence, they never will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After a horrific blow up last spring in which I was blamed and made the scapegoat. In the summer I said to him, no more. I don’t mind seeing them but you will do 100% of the hosting and need to be home for 100% of their visit- taking off work if necessary.

Therefore, for the holidays this year we are:

Not seeing or hosting them (he never planned it)

Not exchanging adult gifts (he decided he didn’t want to do it despite me saying that for years)

Also, he was in charge of giving them all the kids gift ideas as they want specific links to things to buy for the kids and want to chose from the options. He keeps complaining about this and it’s unclear if he’s done it as of today (I have provided these links the last 13 years).

I feel so free and happier than I have been in years! Why didn’t I do this earlier?!

I will one day advise my adult daughter- do not do the work for the husbands family, make him step up and do it. You cannot win. If you do it well, no one seems to care and you have just done a ton of work. If you mess up, you’ll be criticized. None of this is good for your marriage or yourself.

I have been married for 34 years, so take my opinions as you will. 55 years old. Adult kids and now grandkids. The advise you plan to give your daughter sucks. My husband's family IS my family. My family IS his family. To be honest, you sound kinda awful. The kind of behaviors you listed do not bode well for a long, happy marriage. Be sure to prepare for life as a single mother in case I'm right.

You’re a fossil. Take a seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this was a good decision for you personally, but what effect does this have on your kids? Will they now get unwanted gifts from the in-laws? Will their relationship with them suffer.

In my extended family one of my nephews wives does a similar divide and conquer with her husband. The net result is that we rarely get to see those kids. Her family gets a massive amount of time and access. Over time the relationship and respect towards that family has deteriorated. It’s unfortunate because we love them dearly but rarely get to see those kids. I see my other nieces and nephews and their children regularly. It’s a close and functional family but there is always this undercurrent of tension.

Why are you blaming your nephew's DW for a decision THEY made as a couple? You need to recognize your misogyny and just stop blaming women!