We can’t afford it but she wants it. What do I say?

[Anonymous]

Op, be very careful. I personally know people who lost their house due to paying for private school. You’ve gotten lots of great ideas. I think the three with the most merit are:

1. Look at retirement projections together over wine. Maybe she’ll see reality.

2. Look at the cost of religious schools for high school. Maybe you can find something in your budget.

3. Look at how much tutoring and extension you could afford on even half of that money.

Let us know how it goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the same boat brother. Wife rules the roost on this. I see no benefit in private

The private school obsession mania is driven by the mothers. Not the fathers.

THis phenomenon needs to be stupid. More often than not mothers dont even bring in the income to afford it.

So much sexism dripping from this post. Mothers are usually the ones who want their kids to go to go private school because it’s mothers who usually know more about how the education of their children is going, because mothers are usually the ones who actually care enough to find out. Dismissing a concern as “mania” because it’s women who typically have the concern is so gross.

I am team OP here, but as somebody struggling with my kids in public school and based on the sorry state of public education everywhere, I am 99.99% sure his wife has very valid concerns.

I agree with this and it was stated more eloquently than I could have. My husband is pretty clueless about what is going on at school. Thankfully he listens to my concerns.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public schools often do a better job in college admissions than privates. Spend extra money on tutors and extracurricular academic programs which will be a tiny amount compared to private school. Your kids will be top dogs at the public and have great college options, including for merit aid.

Focus on math, writing, and science tutoring.

Everybody wins and you can still save for college and retirement.

+1. We have a high HHI of $600K, can afford private (not in DC area), kids go to a good public school (not the best in the area). We spend a ton of money on enrichment, tutoring. Feels like we get better ROI vs. paying for privates.

+1. We are in the same boat. Applied to private last year but turned it down bc the $50K/year is just stupid. Instead, we save money, spend on enrichment and live a stress-free life. It is so nice to not worry about a tuition bill that would hamstring us.

OP, I went to a fancy private school. I had a wonderful experience and credit a lot of my life experiences to that private school. However, my younger sibling who went to a public school is pretty on par with salary and career as myself. I make $450K (attorney) and he makes $450K (doctor). One in private and the other in public. WE also both went to the same state flagship school.

I think way too much stock is put in private school. If your kid is in a good public with parents who support and foster education, your DC will be just fine. Save the money,

This just occurred to me, reading your post. I wonder if a family with a $900k HHI feels less pressure to go to private because you've already proved your worth and you might not have class anxiety. I wonder if OP's wife doesn't feel as secure, and so she's pushing to send the kids to private because she feels she needs the validation of the kids being in private - and also I wonder if she feels the kids need to be socialized around the super rich kids in a way you don't because you're so wealthy.

Sort of the same way that rich people can bang around in a sh***y car because they don't have to prove anything to anyone, but someone who is more middle class feels the need to drive a good car in order to prove they belong.

(And I believe anyone with a HHI of $220k is doing awesome and should feel very good about what they've gotten in this hard life, but it may be that OP's wife feels like she wants to open up a different world to her kids or feels some class anxiety.)

Just to correct, our HHI is not $900K - it's about $650K. The $450 and $450K was the example of how my younger brother and I - despite going to private v public school - both make the same salary.

That said, I recognize that at $650HHI we still likely feel less pressure to validate our decisions and/or standing. 6 years ago, our HHI was around $200K and I did struggle with public v private - in part because it seemed like the shiny, out of reach option that we could not afford. After we went through the application process and I realized that private schools were not what I thought they were, I feel a bit more confident in our decision. Plus, the benefit of time and experience is that you see how things are turning out. My DD in 8th is doing great and the math enrichments have really paid off.

All that said, OP's wife should not bankrupt them for private school. It's a long road and hopefully they can gain wealth through savings and come out ahead.

Ah sorry, I read your post too quickly. But I do wonder if that idea stands - that someone with a very high HHI is free of class anxiety in a way that someone like OP's wife is not.

And again, $200k is a very very very nice HHI - but maybe the thing is it's just on the cusp of wealthy, and that provokes some of this stuff OP and his wife are going through.

Then again I can easily picture someone with an HHI of $900k feeling anxiety that they aren't bringing in a million, and needing to prove themselves to THAT group of people or whatever.

I think that mentality likely drives 90% of private school admissions. It's a keeping up with the Joneses parade.

Are some of you unaware of what is going on in some school systems? My older kids went to public and I assumed my younger ones would, too. Then Covid happened and they’re now in private. It’s not a keeping up with the Joneses for many people. Have you seen the latest scores from MCPS? It’s concerning.

Same here. We have a HHI in the 7 figures and DC were in public schools until the pandemic hit. Distance learning was a disaster (and seeing the teachers teach first hand was really eye-opening). Anyway, DC are now in private and the academics are so much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, be very careful. I personally know people who lost their house due to paying for private school. You’ve gotten lots of great ideas. I think the three with the most merit are:

1. Look at retirement projections together over wine. Maybe she’ll see reality.

2. Look at the cost of religious schools for high school. Maybe you can find something in your budget.

3. Look at how much tutoring and extension you could afford on even half of that money.

Let us know how it goes.

LOL!

[Anonymous]

In 20 years your kids will be cursing you for saddling them with college debt because you weren't able to cover their higher ed costs after blowing your money on private high school. I know people who have done this and they are completely over extended even though their oldest hasn't even started college yet. It's a hot mess. Their house and cars are in disrepair because they can't afford basic maintenance and repairs. They have no financial cushion. They can't even afford to have their old tires changed on their car even though they are bald. And their kids think it's not big deal to demand money so they can keep up with their wealthy classmates at the private school.

OP, you must fund the essentials. Extras and luxuries come after the essentials are all in place. And an emergency fund is an essential. So is your retirement. Next comes college savings. Then, after all that is taken care of, you can consider making an unnecessary expenditure on private K-12. Tell your wife that you're willing to go together to speak with a financial advisor about this. No advisor will say yes to her crazy idea.

[Anonymous]

Middle school private is the best education dollar of all

College can be cheap. 2 years cc and 2 years commuting state school

But being forced to do tons of homework in middle school sets a kid up for life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public schools often do a better job in college admissions than privates. Spend extra money on tutors and extracurricular academic programs which will be a tiny amount compared to private school. Your kids will be top dogs at the public and have great college options, including for merit aid.

Focus on math, writing, and science tutoring.

Everybody wins and you can still save for college and retirement.

+1. We have a high HHI of $600K, can afford private (not in DC area), kids go to a good public school (not the best in the area). We spend a ton of money on enrichment, tutoring. Feels like we get better ROI vs. paying for privates.

+1. We are in the same boat. Applied to private last year but turned it down bc the $50K/year is just stupid. Instead, we save money, spend on enrichment and live a stress-free life. It is so nice to not worry about a tuition bill that would hamstring us.

OP, I went to a fancy private school. I had a wonderful experience and credit a lot of my life experiences to that private school. However, my younger sibling who went to a public school is pretty on par with salary and career as myself. I make $450K (attorney) and he makes $450K (doctor). One in private and the other in public. WE also both went to the same state flagship school.

I think way too much stock is put in private school. If your kid is in a good public with parents who support and foster education, your DC will be just fine. Save the money,

This just occurred to me, reading your post. I wonder if a family with a $900k HHI feels less pressure to go to private because you've already proved your worth and you might not have class anxiety. I wonder if OP's wife doesn't feel as secure, and so she's pushing to send the kids to private because she feels she needs the validation of the kids being in private - and also I wonder if she feels the kids need to be socialized around the super rich kids in a way you don't because you're so wealthy.

Sort of the same way that rich people can bang around in a sh***y car because they don't have to prove anything to anyone, but someone who is more middle class feels the need to drive a good car in order to prove they belong.

(And I believe anyone with a HHI of $220k is doing awesome and should feel very good about what they've gotten in this hard life, but it may be that OP's wife feels like she wants to open up a different world to her kids or feels some class anxiety.)

Just to correct, our HHI is not $900K - it's about $650K. The $450 and $450K was the example of how my younger brother and I - despite going to private v public school - both make the same salary.

That said, I recognize that at $650HHI we still likely feel less pressure to validate our decisions and/or standing. 6 years ago, our HHI was around $200K and I did struggle with public v private - in part because it seemed like the shiny, out of reach option that we could not afford. After we went through the application process and I realized that private schools were not what I thought they were, I feel a bit more confident in our decision. Plus, the benefit of time and experience is that you see how things are turning out. My DD in 8th is doing great and the math enrichments have really paid off.

All that said, OP's wife should not bankrupt them for private school. It's a long road and hopefully they can gain wealth through savings and come out ahead.

Ah sorry, I read your post too quickly. But I do wonder if that idea stands - that someone with a very high HHI is free of class anxiety in a way that someone like OP's wife is not.

And again, $200k is a very very very nice HHI - but maybe the thing is it's just on the cusp of wealthy, and that provokes some of this stuff OP and his wife are going through.

Then again I can easily picture someone with an HHI of $900k feeling anxiety that they aren't bringing in a million, and needing to prove themselves to THAT group of people or whatever.

I think that mentality likely drives 90% of private school admissions. It's a keeping up with the Joneses parade.

Are some of you unaware of what is going on in some school systems? My older kids went to public and I assumed my younger ones would, too. Then Covid happened and they’re now in private. It’s not a keeping up with the Joneses for many people. Have you seen the latest scores from MCPS? It’s concerning.

Yawn. Yes, I have. We have all read the same things that you do. I still don't think the private schools are worth anywhere near $50K per kid. If it were $25K, maybe. What I found, in our application process, that the private school kids were not more academically inclined than the other AAP or honors public school kids, but they were richer. I don't think it is worth it for our family to pay $150K per year for the next 6 years just for my kids to go to school with rich kids. We do math enrichment, among other things. My children have all tested great, do well in honors/AAP, and have a ton of other extracurriculars. All for less than what I would've spent on one kid at private. Instead of bleeding the $150K in private school, I invest it and can gift to kids when they're older. They'll get far more use out of the cash than spending a decade trying to keep up with the uber-rich trust fund class.

So it might be worth it to you but - been there, and it wasn't worth all that.

You applied to a school with $50k tuition and determined the student body would be richer and this was a surprise to you?
You sound super out of touch. There are a lot of choices in between a bad public school and a $50k school. There is a whole lot more to school than math enrichment and test scores. My kids left MCPS and could barely write a paper. The English curriculum is terrible. But they sure could take a standardized test!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to show her the actual numbers. You have to be prepared with your own financial bottom line on retirement, emergency savings, and college savings.

People like your wife are "fuzzy thinkers" about money. You cannot let their fuzziness, denial, and wishful thinking ruin your own finances.

Sorry to say you'll just have to be very assertive and put your foot down.

If she insists, you may have no other option than to separate finances, if you don't already. That is, you get your own bank account, and your paycheck goes there. You contribute 50% of the joint expenses, and then what you have decided into retirement, emergency savings, and college fund. If she thinks she can pay for private school entirely out of her own money, then she can do that. But I assume she cannot.

I know this sounds harsh, but you can't let her ruin your and your children's economic futures.

It’s doesn’t sound harsh, it sounds clueless. What are you 80? Put the little woman in her place…
Follow this advice, Op, and it won’t end well.

PP here. I am actually in this scenario with the genders reversed, so. It is actually MORE crucial for women to operate this way if there are intractable disagreements about money.

Regardless of gender, I'm not sure what you think a financial partner is supposed to do when the other party wants to spend money the partnership does not have or that creates financial risk. The "separate finances" approach is not fairy tale, but (short of divorce) it's the best way to manage a financially irresponsible partner.

They need to put their heads together and find something that's agreeable. Only send for high school and keep them in public for the middle school. Look for a cheaper alternative. Cut out vacations.
Marriages don't work out to just say - nope - we'll do separate finances and that's that. There is some middle ground that you need to find.

Ideally that’s how it works. But if one spouse is financially irresponsible or exploitative, the other spouse has to protect themselves. OP’s wife is trying to pressure him into pretty seriously prejudicing his finances in an irrational way.

OPs wife could say he doesn’t care about their education. We’re not there yet - there is still time to come to a mutual agreement.

And she would be exaggerating. Whereas he is not exaggerating. This isn’t a “both sides” disagreement.

[Anonymous]

How is this even a debate? That’s a no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middle school private is the best education dollar of all

College can be cheap. 2 years cc and 2 years commuting state school

But being forced to do tons of homework in middle school sets a kid up for life

Interesting theory. Can you elaborate?

I am same HHI as OP and cannot afford private. I am going to go the tutoring route instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to show her the actual numbers. You have to be prepared with your own financial bottom line on retirement, emergency savings, and college savings.

People like your wife are "fuzzy thinkers" about money. You cannot let their fuzziness, denial, and wishful thinking ruin your own finances.

Sorry to say you'll just have to be very assertive and put your foot down.

If she insists, you may have no other option than to separate finances, if you don't already. That is, you get your own bank account, and your paycheck goes there. You contribute 50% of the joint expenses, and then what you have decided into retirement, emergency savings, and college fund. If she thinks she can pay for private school entirely out of her own money, then she can do that. But I assume she cannot.

I know this sounds harsh, but you can't let her ruin your and your children's economic futures.

It’s doesn’t sound harsh, it sounds clueless. What are you 80? Put the little woman in her place…
Follow this advice, Op, and it won’t end well.

PP here. I am actually in this scenario with the genders reversed, so. It is actually MORE crucial for women to operate this way if there are intractable disagreements about money.

Regardless of gender, I'm not sure what you think a financial partner is supposed to do when the other party wants to spend money the partnership does not have or that creates financial risk. The "separate finances" approach is not fairy tale, but (short of divorce) it's the best way to manage a financially irresponsible partner.

They need to put their heads together and find something that's agreeable. Only send for high school and keep them in public for the middle school. Look for a cheaper alternative. Cut out vacations.
Marriages don't work out to just say - nope - we'll do separate finances and that's that. There is some middle ground that you need to find.

Ideally that’s how it works. But if one spouse is financially irresponsible or exploitative, the other spouse has to protect themselves. OP’s wife is trying to pressure him into pretty seriously prejudicing his finances in an irrational way.

OPs wife could say he doesn’t care about their education. We’re not there yet - there is still time to come to a mutual agreement.

And she would be exaggerating. Whereas he is not exaggerating. This isn’t a “both sides” disagreement.

PP was responding to a comment implying that OP’s wife is exploitative. I agree with PP - it’s not exploitative to want to stretch to pay for private; that would be the same as saying OP doesn’t care about his kids’ education.

They take care of these kids together, and one partner doesn’t get to make all the financial or educational decisions. I do see OP’s side more on this but I think he should first try to mentally set aside his financial concerns and listen to why his wife really wants their kids in private, and then together they can be creative to see how they can take care of those concerns without blowing up their finances. They can get creative. In our family I did that and I wound up homeschooling for two years and I still do weekend enrichment. OP has more options than just flat-out saying no and getting into credit card debt.

[Anonymous]

What is her plan to double her salary? Ask her that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think either one of you is necessarily wrong. It’s hard without more facts. Obviously we’re getting your side and you don’t seem to believe they are good either. How involved are you with your kids schools - who is sitting and doing their homework with them? Do your kids have any challenges with schools? Is it possible to move to an area with better public schools? Can you cut vacation to make up the deficit?
We left public during Covid and it’s stressed our finances. I absolutely believe it’s been worth it though.
I would also look at catholic schools and at least apply for financial aid.

You think it’s worth it because confirmation bias. It was actually a dumb decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to show her the actual numbers. You have to be prepared with your own financial bottom line on retirement, emergency savings, and college savings.

People like your wife are "fuzzy thinkers" about money. You cannot let their fuzziness, denial, and wishful thinking ruin your own finances.

Sorry to say you'll just have to be very assertive and put your foot down.

If she insists, you may have no other option than to separate finances, if you don't already. That is, you get your own bank account, and your paycheck goes there. You contribute 50% of the joint expenses, and then what you have decided into retirement, emergency savings, and college fund. If she thinks she can pay for private school entirely out of her own money, then she can do that. But I assume she cannot.

I know this sounds harsh, but you can't let her ruin your and your children's economic futures.

It’s doesn’t sound harsh, it sounds clueless. What are you 80? Put the little woman in her place…
Follow this advice, Op, and it won’t end well.

PP here. I am actually in this scenario with the genders reversed, so. It is actually MORE crucial for women to operate this way if there are intractable disagreements about money.

Regardless of gender, I'm not sure what you think a financial partner is supposed to do when the other party wants to spend money the partnership does not have or that creates financial risk. The "separate finances" approach is not fairy tale, but (short of divorce) it's the best way to manage a financially irresponsible partner.

They need to put their heads together and find something that's agreeable. Only send for high school and keep them in public for the middle school. Look for a cheaper alternative. Cut out vacations.
Marriages don't work out to just say - nope - we'll do separate finances and that's that. There is some middle ground that you need to find.

Ideally that’s how it works. But if one spouse is financially irresponsible or exploitative, the other spouse has to protect themselves. OP’s wife is trying to pressure him into pretty seriously prejudicing his finances in an irrational way.

OPs wife could say he doesn’t care about their education. We’re not there yet - there is still time to come to a mutual agreement.

And she would be exaggerating. Whereas he is not exaggerating. This isn’t a “both sides” disagreement.

PP was responding to a comment implying that OP’s wife is exploitative. I agree with PP - it’s not exploitative to want to stretch to pay for private; that would be the same as saying OP doesn’t care about his kids’ education.

They take care of these kids together, and one partner doesn’t get to make all the financial or educational decisions. I do see OP’s side more on this but I think he should first try to mentally set aside his financial concerns and listen to why his wife really wants their kids in private, and then together they can be creative to see how they can take care of those concerns without blowing up their finances. They can get creative. In our family I did that and I wound up homeschooling for two years and I still do weekend enrichment. OP has more options than just flat-out saying no and getting into credit card debt.

I don’t know if OP’s wife is exploitative, but it can certainly happen.

I don’t disagree that if OP can, he should get to common ground and listen.

But, my concern when I hear stories like this is that the spouse is just not thinking clearly at all. It is truly not rational to say you’re going to spend down your emergency and college funds and not save for retirement. OP seems befuddled by this and not sure what to do. In this type of scenario I think it is VERY important for the sane spouse to have very clear bottom lines and understand that the other spouse’s views are objectively unacceptable.

If you’ve never been in the scenario of having to deal with a spouse, partner, boss, parent who is not attached to reality … you are lucky. When the person on the other side of the relationship is not reasonable, you cannot rely on the things that you would do with a normal person. They don’t respond to that. Because they are not normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think either one of you is necessarily wrong. It’s hard without more facts. Obviously we’re getting your side and you don’t seem to believe they are good either. How involved are you with your kids schools - who is sitting and doing their homework with them? Do your kids have any challenges with schools? Is it possible to move to an area with better public schools? Can you cut vacation to make up the deficit?
We left public during Covid and it’s stressed our finances. I absolutely believe it’s been worth it though.
I would also look at catholic schools and at least apply for financial aid.

You think it’s worth it because confirmation bias. It was actually a dumb decision.

I am a public school parent and I think it’s highly that PP is wrong. Covid has been abysmal for so many students, especially those who were supposed to be learning foundational topics like reading for K and advanced math for middle and high school, and of course the impact is even worse for a kid with even the smallest special need. You just cannot learn as well over a computer, and private schools did much less of that. This isn’t even factoring in the fact that private schools are far more likely to have a content-rich curriculum and good writing composition instruction, and much less of a problem with behavioral issues in the transition back to the classroom. This is reflected in data. It’s not confirmation bias unless PP’s public school option was a unicorn.