2024 US News rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Dartmouth has been wildly overrated for a while, so this new ranking isn’t surprising to me.

Top 15 all look about accurate to me.

True. Dartmouth is truly the lowest ivy. People think it's Cornell because Cornell stats gets dragged down because of its agriculture and hotel schools. But Dartmouth is hands down the easiest ivy to get into.

Dartmouth is #18 - so lowest ranked Ivy by far

Once again I ask what evidence to you have to make that determination? I don't think you have any.

So the evidence of the fact that it is over-rated is the fact that it is currently the lowest rated Ivy?

Circular reasoning at best, but IMHO very faulty reasoning regardless.

Where would it be ranked if it didn't play sportsball against HYP?

More speculation without foundation or evidence. Try again.

As a rhetorical question it’s obviously speculative as many if not most arguments on rankings are.

However, as an actual question, I find it quite interesting. All else equal, where would an Ivy school rank if the actual Ivy sports league didn’t exist? College education is obviously so much about signaling / reputation and there are strong feedback loops - if high stat students go to a school other high stat students will apply and as that is part of the ranking it strengthens the quality of the signal / reputation.

Would love to see Raj Chetty of Harvard address this question and provide a non-speculative answer. I would not bet too much on the league brand being insignificant, but I wouldn’t expect it too be that important either. But now I’m just speculating…

Hitchen's razor states that which can be presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Indeed. That's why solid empirical work would be interesting.

However, the more consequential principle is that "Which is presented with evidence will be dismissed and ignored when it doesn't serve a self interest", Anonymous (circa 2023).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

This.

? I don't think public school parents care whether the private school parents send their kids to expensive privates so that they don't have to mingle with the masses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

This.

? I don't think public school parents care whether the private school parents send their kids to expensive privates so that they don't have to mingle with the masses.

+1 It's good to avoid the schools that rich kids want to go to because they are usually choosing a place where they can slack off because they know they have the connections anyway. This distorts the "outcomes/ROI" measures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

This.

? I don't think public school parents care whether the private school parents send their kids to expensive privates so that they don't have to mingle with the masses.

+1 It's good to avoid the schools that rich kids want to go to because they are usually choosing a place where they can slack off because they know they have the connections anyway. This distorts the "outcomes/ROI" measures.

That's very true. Hard to measure just how "successful" the college is in terms of outcomes due to those family connections.

I think a list that shows the SES movement of the students is a good indication of how well those students turn out. Most of the kids in large publics probably don't have the family connections to get a high paying job.

My kid is at a large public and said they know some kids at the expensive private colleges who have family connections to get great internships. That distorts the success measure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

This.

? I don't think public school parents care whether the private school parents send their kids to expensive privates so that they don't have to mingle with the masses.

+1 It's good to avoid the schools that rich kids want to go to because they are usually choosing a place where they can slack off because they know they have the connections anyway. This distorts the "outcomes/ROI" measures.

That's very true. Hard to measure just how "successful" the college is in terms of outcomes due to those family connections.

I think a list that shows the SES movement of the students is a good indication of how well those students turn out. Most of the kids in large publics probably don't have the family connections to get a high paying job.

My kid is at a large public and said they know some kids at the expensive private colleges who have family connections to get great internships. That distorts the success measure.

Except a lot of the wealthy kids seem to go to out of state publics these days too. And many of the expensive private schools offer significant financial aid to lower income families--and merit aid to MC/UMC just above the cut-offs for financial aid--often making them a better deal.
NyTimes has a good social mobility analysis of all the different schools. You can't just go by public/private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Dartmouth has been wildly overrated for a while, so this new ranking isn’t surprising to me.

Top 15 all look about accurate to me.

True. Dartmouth is truly the lowest ivy. People think it's Cornell because Cornell stats gets dragged down because of its agriculture and hotel schools. But Dartmouth is hands down the easiest ivy to get into.

Dartmouth is #18 - so lowest ranked Ivy by far

Once again I ask what evidence to you have to make that determination? I don't think you have any.

So the evidence of the fact that it is over-rated is the fact that it is currently the lowest rated Ivy?

Circular reasoning at best, but IMHO very faulty reasoning regardless.

Where would it be ranked if it didn't play sportsball against HYP?

More speculation without foundation or evidence. Try again.

As a rhetorical question it’s obviously speculative as many if not most arguments on rankings are.

However, as an actual question, I find it quite interesting. All else equal, where would an Ivy school rank if the actual Ivy sports league didn’t exist? College education is obviously so much about signaling / reputation and there are strong feedback loops - if high stat students go to a school other high stat students will apply and as that is part of the ranking it strengthens the quality of the signal / reputation.

Would love to see Raj Chetty of Harvard address this question and provide a non-speculative answer. I would not bet too much on the league brand being insignificant, but I wouldn’t expect it too be that important either. But now I’m just speculating…

Hitchen's razor states that which can be presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Indeed. That's why solid empirical work would be interesting.

However, the more consequential principle is that "Which is presented with evidence will be dismissed and ignored when it doesn't serve a self interest", Anonymous (circa 2023).

It’s Hitchens’s Razor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

This.

Interesting. Most of the private school kids (oh, sorry!! "Independent schools") we know are indeed attending both in-state and OOS large publics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

Thanks for talking about the elephant in the room. Why would a parent send their kid to a private/independent school with its small class and individualized attention only to have them go across the country to attend classes with 500 other students at Berkeley or UCLA.

I dunno. But I see a lot of large colleges on the top private schools’ matriculation lists so somebody is. And many of the larger privates have pretty big intro classes too. By your logic, everyone should be going to liberal arts colleges.

I never said that or implied that (ever heard of a mid-sized university?). I did however look at top privates in NYC and it seems very few go to large publics in California (or elsewhere):

https://www.dalton.org/programs/high-school/college-counseling
https://www.horacemann.org/academic-life/college-counseling
https://www.brearley.org/about/college-matriculations-2018-2022
https://trinityschoolnyc.myschoolapp.com/ftpimages/390/download/download_4530575.pdf

Interesting to see how Dartmouth isn’t as popular at these elite nyc schools now

Dartmouth was the same as Duke at one and Brown at another. By that logic I guess those larger schools are less popular.

Dartmouth is #18

That's just because US News took away class size, faculty terminal degree, high school graduating percentile, alumni giving, etc, all key indicators of academic and peer quality, as well as student happiness and satisfaction.

Save your breath. These days facts and logic are no match for lip-biting empathy & chin-quivering concern for upward mobility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

This.

? I don't think public school parents care whether the private school parents send their kids to expensive privates so that they don't have to mingle with the masses.

+1 It's good to avoid the schools that rich kids want to go to because they are usually choosing a place where they can slack off because they know they have the connections anyway. This distorts the "outcomes/ROI" measures.

LOL, the places where the kids slack off are the ones that have high acceptance rates. There's a reason for that lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

This.

Interesting. Most of the private school kids (oh, sorry!! "Independent schools") we know are indeed attending both in-state and OOS large publics.

This is true, but there is usually a large cohort that gain admission to the top 20 private schools, which are generally their preference. Not every kid is going to get into a top 20. At my small private about 25% got into a top 20 school last year. Much higher % than at any public school of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

Thanks for talking about the elephant in the room. Why would a parent send their kid to a private/independent school with its small class and individualized attention only to have them go across the country to attend classes with 500 other students at Berkeley or UCLA.

I dunno. But I see a lot of large colleges on the top private schools’ matriculation lists so somebody is. And many of the larger privates have pretty big intro classes too. By your logic, everyone should be going to liberal arts colleges.

I never said that or implied that (ever heard of a mid-sized university?). I did however look at top privates in NYC and it seems very few go to large publics in California (or elsewhere):

https://www.dalton.org/programs/high-school/college-counseling
https://www.horacemann.org/academic-life/college-counseling
https://www.brearley.org/about/college-matriculations-2018-2022
https://trinityschoolnyc.myschoolapp.com/ftpimages/390/download/download_4530575.pdf

Interesting to see how Dartmouth isn’t as popular at these elite nyc schools now

Dartmouth was the same as Duke at one and Brown at another. By that logic I guess those larger schools are less popular.

Dartmouth is #18

That's just because US News took away class size, faculty terminal degree, high school graduating percentile, alumni giving, etc, all key indicators of academic and peer quality, as well as student happiness and satisfaction.

Save your breath. These days facts and logic are no match for lip-biting empathy & chin-quivering concern for upward mobility.

This is the new affirmative action!! Access to the poors to bump up their USNWR rankings! Sorry richies!

[Anonymous]

My kids are wealthy and it makes no difference where they go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are wealthy and it makes no difference where they go to college.

Thank you, Mr. Howell. I hope you & Gilligan get rescued soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The experience of a student at a wealthy private is typically very different from the experience at a large public with a limited budget.

Generally speaking, course availability and getting the classes you actually want each semester can be a big difference between the two.

+1000
Just as the experience at an independent HS is very different from that a large public HS. What some people will never understand (ahem, public school parents) is that parents who pay to send their kids to elite HS's aren't interested in having their with the masses at large public colleges, regardless of rankings.

Thanks for talking about the elephant in the room. Why would a parent send their kid to a private/independent school with its small class and individualized attention only to have them go across the country to attend classes with 500 other students at Berkeley or UCLA.

I dunno. But I see a lot of large colleges on the top private schools’ matriculation lists so somebody is. And many of the larger privates have pretty big intro classes too. By your logic, everyone should be going to liberal arts colleges.

I never said that or implied that (ever heard of a mid-sized university?). I did however look at top privates in NYC and it seems very few go to large publics in California (or elsewhere):

https://www.dalton.org/programs/high-school/college-counseling
https://www.horacemann.org/academic-life/college-counseling
https://www.brearley.org/about/college-matriculations-2018-2022
https://trinityschoolnyc.myschoolapp.com/ftpimages/390/download/download_4530575.pdf

Interesting to see how Dartmouth isn’t as popular at these elite nyc schools now

Dartmouth was the same as Duke at one and Brown at another. By that logic I guess those larger schools are less popular.

Dartmouth is #18

That's just because US News took away class size, faculty terminal degree, high school graduating percentile, alumni giving, etc, all key indicators of academic and peer quality, as well as student happiness and satisfaction.

Save your breath. These days facts and logic are no match for lip-biting empathy & chin-quivering concern for upward mobility.

They’re still using facts - just not ones you don’t value. As for logic, the only thing less logical than ranking universities is you being offended by it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are wealthy and it makes no difference where they go to college.

Thank you, Mr. Howell. I hope you & Gilligan get rescued soon.

Enjoy working for my kids soon.