2024 US News rankings

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what you all think, Princeton is the finest undergrad institution in the country.

In all seriousness, would the P still be in HYPSM if not for USNWR over the last 20 years? Princeton's lack of professional schools and limited number of truly elite grad schools make it not fit with the others at this point in the overall university sense.
Princeton and Dartmouth do care about undergrads but are still way too big and have way too many grad students (that top profs actually pick) to give you the type of undergrad experience you'd get at an Amherst, Swarthmore, or Williams.

There wouldn't be a HYPSM category at all without a P.

It's like a game when everyone gets the same prize, doesn't it make that "prize" feel less valuable? It is human nature to want something other people can't have so attaining HYPSM is not just about the actual education etc. It's about how you feel you (ie your kid) won the game.

I think that is part of PP's point. Princeton isn't quite "winning the game" in the same way as Harvard and Stanford. The name doesn't have the same universal recognition and prestige as those two and Yale either.

Agree

?? For anyone interested in STEM, Princeton >> Yale. Honestly I believe HPSM are in a class of their own for undergrad, with Yale, Caltech, Duke, Penn right behind

What STEM areas in Princeton so strong in? If Yale doesn't belong in that group, Princeton doesn't either. You could just list HSM and I'd understand that more.

If lower Ivy boosters keep trying to pick away at HYPSM, maybe we’ll believe that Cornell and Columbia are just as good. Keep plugging away!

Cornell and Columbia ARE better than Harvard and Yale in STEM.

I have no bone in this fight. But Yale in particular should not be regarded as a top 10 school.

LOL let's not get ahead of ourselves. Harvard is better than every ivy aside from Princeton in STEM. Its weakest facet is the "T" in STEM, and that's mostly because they let that work get done by MIT a 10 minute trip across the river. Harvard is top or close to top in the world at math and science.

Sorry to interrupt this c!r€le jerk, in which each of you is apparently staring longingly at a selfie to keep up the passion, but what river do you cross to get from Harvard to MIT?

Charles river

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's no doubt that HYPSM opens all the doors. The people doing all the hiring are of an older generation and might still believe there'a meritocracy going on. Times change.

But let's break it down. Yale has clearly lost the plot over the past twenty years. Invested nothing into engineering or computer science. Their business school is a certification program for rich foreigners. It's DEI Central. Yale students get very upset when a grown-up suggests they are responsible for their own Halloween costumes. And they will destroy anyone for any reason at all. Sounds pleasant.

Harvard is all in with the Jared Kushner model. Sprinkle a few talented kids to hide the absolute douchebaggery of most students. Everyone is connected. Country club school. Easy classes and easy grades. Mediocre. Rich kid school. As opposed to smart kid school.

I will pause here for a moment and say I have insomnia and I'm looking for distractions.

Princeton. They're trying. All those resources. Fantastic financial aid. Pretty good in STEM. The Eating Clubs are not great but I get how they're trying to keep traditions while modernizing. Princeton is rolling with things in a smart way. It's not for everyone. But I am pro-Princeton. If you can get in, go for it.

What the hell is wrong with Stanford? It used to be the cool school. We're a Stanford family. But anyone that went there in the 90s or earlier wouldn't recognize it today. Cold. Lifeless. Scared. It's the North Korea of academia today. Lifeless drones marching off to Sand Hill. Pathetic.

MIT is alright. They're not messing around. They actually require tests scores. Your legacy or family name doesn't matter. Good stuff. But it's a really difficult place for a lot of students. Not a MIT student. But used to socialize. It's not a wonderful campus. And you can feel the pressure. When an MIT student chooses to party, they are unleashing a lot of pressure. Not healthy, but in fairness the MIT students I knew were in fraternities.

So the point of this is that Northeastern is the best school. Obviously.

This has some fair points, but Harvard still tends to accept many academically-oriented legacies and athletes. There are many other schools where the less academic legacies and athletes end up but Harvard gets to pick who they want. Of course there are some knuckleheads but that's true of any school outside of MIT and Caltech. IMO right now it's H > PSM > Caltech Yale Duke Penn Columbia > Brown Chicago Northwestern Hopkins Williams Amherst Swarthmore Pomona

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what you all think, Princeton is the finest undergrad institution in the country.

In all seriousness, would the P still be in HYPSM if not for USNWR over the last 20 years? Princeton's lack of professional schools and limited number of truly elite grad schools make it not fit with the others at this point in the overall university sense.
Princeton and Dartmouth do care about undergrads but are still way too big and have way too many grad students (that top profs actually pick) to give you the type of undergrad experience you'd get at an Amherst, Swarthmore, or Williams.

There wouldn't be a HYPSM category at all without a P.

It's like a game when everyone gets the same prize, doesn't it make that "prize" feel less valuable? It is human nature to want something other people can't have so attaining HYPSM is not just about the actual education etc. It's about how you feel you (ie your kid) won the game.

I think that is part of PP's point. Princeton isn't quite "winning the game" in the same way as Harvard and Stanford. The name doesn't have the same universal recognition and prestige as those two and Yale either.

Agree

?? For anyone interested in STEM, Princeton >> Yale. Honestly I believe HPSM are in a class of their own for undergrad, with Yale, Caltech, Duke, Penn right behind

What STEM areas in Princeton so strong in? If Yale doesn't belong in that group, Princeton doesn't either. You could just list HSM and I'd understand that more.

If lower Ivy boosters keep trying to pick away at HYPSM, maybe we’ll believe that Cornell and Columbia are just as good. Keep plugging away!

Cornell and Columbia ARE better than Harvard and Yale in STEM.

I have no bone in this fight. But Yale in particular should not be regarded as a top 10 school.

LOL let's not get ahead of ourselves. Harvard is better than every ivy aside from Princeton in STEM. Its weakest facet is the "T" in STEM, and that's mostly because they let that work get done by MIT a 10 minute trip across the river. Harvard is top or close to top in the world at math and science.

Sorry to interrupt this c!r€le jerk, in which each of you is apparently staring longingly at a selfie to keep up the passion, but what river do you cross to get from Harvard to MIT?

Charles river

that would be "The Charles".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale has a professor, Zareena Grewal, who is a filthy, pathetic defender of Hamas terrorism, so I'd say Yale is losing out when it comes to anything approaching decency these days. Small wonder it has fallen behind schools that were once its peers.

+1 Not for the professor but for the relative weakness in STEM. That's why people on here are using HPSM more, and Yale is being grouped with Caltech, Duke, Penn, and Columbia.

A Yale professor was hounded mercilessly for suggesting that Yale students were mature enough to pick out their own Halloween costumes, yet another professor defends Hamas terrorism (taking the position that Israelis are, by definition, not civilians) and it's crickets. For a once-leading university, it appears to be without any sense of purpose now other than to incubate "progressive" scum who, if taken seriously, would turn it into New Haven Community Free College.

Did someone from Yale run over your dog or something? You sound unhinged. Let it go.

Don't have a dog in the fight but the PP isn't unhinged. . The incident about the halloween costumes actually happened (around six years ago) and the Hamas terrorism matter is current. People remember when wacky things happen.

+1. https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/halloween-costume-controversy

Thank you. Eight years ago. Sadlym the faculty involved lost their home and appointment. I'm not a Yalie but this episode was upsetting to many many alums. it was not Yale's finest hour

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's no doubt that HYPSM opens all the doors. The people doing all the hiring are of an older generation and might still believe there'a meritocracy going on. Times change.

But let's break it down. Yale has clearly lost the plot over the past twenty years. Invested nothing into engineering or computer science. Their business school is a certification program for rich foreigners. It's DEI Central. Yale students get very upset when a grown-up suggests they are responsible for their own Halloween costumes. And they will destroy anyone for any reason at all. Sounds pleasant.

Harvard is all in with the Jared Kushner model. Sprinkle a few talented kids to hide the absolute douchebaggery of most students. Everyone is connected. Country club school. Easy classes and easy grades. Mediocre. Rich kid school. As opposed to smart kid school.

I will pause here for a moment and say I have insomnia and I'm looking for distractions.

Princeton. They're trying. All those resources. Fantastic financial aid. Pretty good in STEM. The Eating Clubs are not great but I get how they're trying to keep traditions while modernizing. Princeton is rolling with things in a smart way. It's not for everyone. But I am pro-Princeton. If you can get in, go for it.

What the hell is wrong with Stanford? It used to be the cool school. We're a Stanford family. But anyone that went there in the 90s or earlier wouldn't recognize it today. Cold. Lifeless. Scared. It's the North Korea of academia today. Lifeless drones marching off to Sand Hill. Pathetic.

MIT is alright. They're not messing around. They actually require tests scores. Your legacy or family name doesn't matter. Good stuff. But it's a really difficult place for a lot of students. Not a MIT student. But used to socialize. It's not a wonderful campus. And you can feel the pressure. When an MIT student chooses to party, they are unleashing a lot of pressure. Not healthy, but in fairness the MIT students I knew were in fraternities.

So the point of this is that Northeastern is the best school. Obviously.

This has some fair points, but Harvard still tends to accept many academically-oriented legacies and athletes. There are many other schools where the less academic legacies and athletes end up but Harvard gets to pick who they want. Of course there are some knuckleheads but that's true of any school outside of MIT and Caltech. IMO right now it's H > PSM > Caltech Yale Duke Penn Columbia > Brown Chicago Northwestern Hopkins Williams Amherst Swarthmore Pomona

It should be M>=S>H>P>Y.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s Harvard or bust. No other college matters. They are all Harvard rejects.

+1. If people have to go further, it is H > MIT=S > P=Y.

S >/= H > YPM

Only portions of MIT, Yale, and Princeton are equivalent to Stanford and Harvard.

Yale is a great school and wouldn't be the first in the HYPSM group to get dropped given its prestige and name recognition.
They have already stepped up a lot in STEM over the last few years. They are not Stanford or MIT but are now in the same league as Princeton.
Niche ranks Yale as a top 10 CS school and they are above Harvard and Princeton in CodeSignal's ranking based on student coding skill.

H > S and all other schools. The quality of the students is the most important factor for a university. Look at the cross admits data comparing schools, H is the best school, way better than S that is second. https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/col...=Stanford+University

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s Harvard or bust. No other college matters. They are all Harvard rejects.

+1. If people have to go further, it is H > MIT=S > P=Y.

S >/= H > YPM

Only portions of MIT, Yale, and Princeton are equivalent to Stanford and Harvard.

Yale is a great school and wouldn't be the first in the HYPSM group to get dropped given its prestige and name recognition.
They have already stepped up a lot in STEM over the last few years. They are not Stanford or MIT but are now in the same league as Princeton.
Niche ranks Yale as a top 10 CS school and they are above Harvard and Princeton in CodeSignal's ranking based on student coding skill.

H > S and all other schools. The quality of the students is the most important factor for a university. Look at the cross admits data comparing schools, H is the best school, way better than S that is second. https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/col...=Stanford+University

You do understand that the Parchment link you provided shows they DON'T have a difference in that Harvard Stanford matchup that is statistically significant at a 95% confidence level, right?

[Anonymous]

The quality of professors (publication not teaching) and grad students is more important to a research university. We get so hung up on undergrads here. They are now just the facade at the Harvards and Stanfords of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's no doubt that HYPSM opens all the doors. The people doing all the hiring are of an older generation and might still believe there'a meritocracy going on. Times change.

But let's break it down. Yale has clearly lost the plot over the past twenty years. Invested nothing into engineering or computer science. Their business school is a certification program for rich foreigners. It's DEI Central. Yale students get very upset when a grown-up suggests they are responsible for their own Halloween costumes. And they will destroy anyone for any reason at all. Sounds pleasant.

Harvard is all in with the Jared Kushner model. Sprinkle a few talented kids to hide the absolute douchebaggery of most students. Everyone is connected. Country club school. Easy classes and easy grades. Mediocre. Rich kid school. As opposed to smart kid school.

I will pause here for a moment and say I have insomnia and I'm looking for distractions.

Princeton. They're trying. All those resources. Fantastic financial aid. Pretty good in STEM. The Eating Clubs are not great but I get how they're trying to keep traditions while modernizing. Princeton is rolling with things in a smart way. It's not for everyone. But I am pro-Princeton. If you can get in, go for it.

What the hell is wrong with Stanford? It used to be the cool school. We're a Stanford family. But anyone that went there in the 90s or earlier wouldn't recognize it today. Cold. Lifeless. Scared. It's the North Korea of academia today. Lifeless drones marching off to Sand Hill. Pathetic.

MIT is alright. They're not messing around. They actually require tests scores. Your legacy or family name doesn't matter. Good stuff. But it's a really difficult place for a lot of students. Not a MIT student. But used to socialize. It's not a wonderful campus. And you can feel the pressure. When an MIT student chooses to party, they are unleashing a lot of pressure. Not healthy, but in fairness the MIT students I knew were in fraternities.

So the point of this is that Northeastern is the best school. Obviously.

This has some fair points, but Harvard still tends to accept many academically-oriented legacies and athletes. There are many other schools where the less academic legacies and athletes end up but Harvard gets to pick who they want. Of course there are some knuckleheads but that's true of any school outside of MIT and Caltech. IMO right now it's H > PSM > Caltech Yale Duke Penn Columbia > Brown Chicago Northwestern Hopkins Williams Amherst Swarthmore Pomona

It should be M>=S>H>P>Y.

That other school in Cambridge, come on? Maybe a few departments but no way at the university-wide level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s Harvard or bust. No other college matters. They are all Harvard rejects.

+1. If people have to go further, it is H > MIT=S > P=Y.

S >/= H > YPM

Only portions of MIT, Yale, and Princeton are equivalent to Stanford and Harvard.

Yale is a great school and wouldn't be the first in the HYPSM group to get dropped given its prestige and name recognition.
They have already stepped up a lot in STEM over the last few years. They are not Stanford or MIT but are now in the same league as Princeton.
Niche ranks Yale as a top 10 CS school and they are above Harvard and Princeton in CodeSignal's ranking based on student coding skill.

H > S and all other schools. The quality of the students is the most important factor for a university. Look at the cross admits data comparing schools, H is the best school, way better than S that is second. https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/col...=Stanford+University

You do understand that the Parchment link you provided shows they DON'T have a difference in that Harvard Stanford matchup that is statistically significant at a 95% confidence level, right?

I happen to know statistics very well. If you do a statistical testing comparing H vs. S, the 2-sided P-value would be < 0.05 for sure. Go figure...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s Harvard or bust. No other college matters. They are all Harvard rejects.

+1. If people have to go further, it is H > MIT=S > P=Y.

S >/= H > YPM

Only portions of MIT, Yale, and Princeton are equivalent to Stanford and Harvard.

Yale is a great school and wouldn't be the first in the HYPSM group to get dropped given its prestige and name recognition.
They have already stepped up a lot in STEM over the last few years. They are not Stanford or MIT but are now in the same league as Princeton.
Niche ranks Yale as a top 10 CS school and they are above Harvard and Princeton in CodeSignal's ranking based on student coding skill.

H > S and all other schools. The quality of the students is the most important factor for a university. Look at the cross admits data comparing schools, H is the best school, way better than S that is second. https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/col...=Stanford+University

You do understand that the Parchment link you provided shows they DON'T have a difference in that Harvard Stanford matchup that is statistically significant at a 95% confidence level, right?

Did you see the lower bound of the 95% CI for H is higher than the point estimate for S? And similarly, the higher bound of the 95% CI for S is lower than the point estimate of H?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's no doubt that HYPSM opens all the doors. The people doing all the hiring are of an older generation and might still believe there'a meritocracy going on. Times change.

But let's break it down. Yale has clearly lost the plot over the past twenty years. Invested nothing into engineering or computer science. Their business school is a certification program for rich foreigners. It's DEI Central. Yale students get very upset when a grown-up suggests they are responsible for their own Halloween costumes. And they will destroy anyone for any reason at all. Sounds pleasant.

Harvard is all in with the Jared Kushner model. Sprinkle a few talented kids to hide the absolute douchebaggery of most students. Everyone is connected. Country club school. Easy classes and easy grades. Mediocre. Rich kid school. As opposed to smart kid school.

I will pause here for a moment and say I have insomnia and I'm looking for distractions.

Princeton. They're trying. All those resources. Fantastic financial aid. Pretty good in STEM. The Eating Clubs are not great but I get how they're trying to keep traditions while modernizing. Princeton is rolling with things in a smart way. It's not for everyone. But I am pro-Princeton. If you can get in, go for it.

What the hell is wrong with Stanford? It used to be the cool school. We're a Stanford family. But anyone that went there in the 90s or earlier wouldn't recognize it today. Cold. Lifeless. Scared. It's the North Korea of academia today. Lifeless drones marching off to Sand Hill. Pathetic.

MIT is alright. They're not messing around. They actually require tests scores. Your legacy or family name doesn't matter. Good stuff. But it's a really difficult place for a lot of students. Not a MIT student. But used to socialize. It's not a wonderful campus. And you can feel the pressure. When an MIT student chooses to party, they are unleashing a lot of pressure. Not healthy, but in fairness the MIT students I knew were in fraternities.

So the point of this is that Northeastern is the best school. Obviously.

This has some fair points, but Harvard still tends to accept many academically-oriented legacies and athletes. There are many other schools where the less academic legacies and athletes end up but Harvard gets to pick who they want. Of course there are some knuckleheads but that's true of any school outside of MIT and Caltech. IMO right now it's H > PSM > Caltech Yale Duke Penn Columbia > Brown Chicago Northwestern Hopkins Williams Amherst Swarthmore Pomona

Just to be clear, MIT has a large group of recruited athletes that get assistance from admissions (they have football and a large number of sports). Sports are important to prominent MIT alumni too, like Koch. It isn't like Caltech in that regard. DCUM has been confused about this a few times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s Harvard or bust. No other college matters. They are all Harvard rejects.

+1. If people have to go further, it is H > MIT=S > P=Y.

S >/= H > YPM

Only portions of MIT, Yale, and Princeton are equivalent to Stanford and Harvard.

Yale is a great school and wouldn't be the first in the HYPSM group to get dropped given its prestige and name recognition.
They have already stepped up a lot in STEM over the last few years. They are not Stanford or MIT but are now in the same league as Princeton.
Niche ranks Yale as a top 10 CS school and they are above Harvard and Princeton in CodeSignal's ranking based on student coding skill.

H > S and all other schools. The quality of the students is the most important factor for a university. Look at the cross admits data comparing schools, H is the best school, way better than S that is second. https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/col...=Stanford+University

You do understand that the Parchment link you provided shows they DON'T have a difference in that Harvard Stanford matchup that is statistically significant at a 95% confidence level, right?

Did you see the lower bound of the 95% CI for H is higher than the point estimate for S? And similarly, the higher bound of the 95% CI for S is lower than the point estimate of H?

I'll give you that the limited Parchment data likely does support Harvard but it isn't a strong example to throw out something the site itself warns isn't statistically significant at a 95% confidence level. Note that the 95% confidence interval for Stanford also goes above 50% (and Harvard's goes below 50%).
I don't like personal attacks on these boards but that just isn't strong support at all of your H is "way better than" S

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s Harvard or bust. No other college matters. They are all Harvard rejects.

+1. If people have to go further, it is H > MIT=S > P=Y.

S >/= H > YPM

Only portions of MIT, Yale, and Princeton are equivalent to Stanford and Harvard.

Yale is a great school and wouldn't be the first in the HYPSM group to get dropped given its prestige and name recognition.
They have already stepped up a lot in STEM over the last few years. They are not Stanford or MIT but are now in the same league as Princeton.
Niche ranks Yale as a top 10 CS school and they are above Harvard and Princeton in CodeSignal's ranking based on student coding skill.

H > S and all other schools. The quality of the students is the most important factor for a university. Look at the cross admits data comparing schools, H is the best school, way better than S that is second. https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/col...=Stanford+University

You do understand that the Parchment link you provided shows they DON'T have a difference in that Harvard Stanford matchup that is statistically significant at a 95% confidence level, right?

I happen to know statistics very well. If you do a statistical testing comparing H vs. S, the 2-sided P-value would be < 0.05 for sure. Go figure...

You should come work for me

[Anonymous]

Harvard's football team might even be on par with Stanford's this year. It is painful to see Stanford getting crushed by Colorado like this!