Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue is the lifestyle spending, which is fueling the hamster wheel. Private school is what, 40-50K per kid? If OP and her husband could agree on public, that alone could free her to find a more family friendly job, assuming all their other income is currently allocated to other things. But I'm sure it's possible to stop spending elsewhere if you look. Consumer spending on expensive cars and the like should be the first to get cut IMO.

right? totally baffling. I’m positive that the public schools in Bethesda and McLean are full of equally wealthy families. What OP needs to do is tell her DH she’s
getting a lower paced job with no evening hours, then work out the budget. She’ll not even making much money now for the hours she works, so it shouldn’t be that hard to do. OP will still face the iniquity of being the spouse of a law partner, but much better to do that working 40 hrs/week instead of 50.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. We both work in law. DH is working on many more complicated deals now which is why the hours are so bad.

I am at a different firm that is also pretty demanding. Neither of us really has the ability to but back our hours and while I could take somewhat of a step back with less pay,
I can’t find any firms that actually have that option. No one wants a lawyer who is only willing to work 40 hours per week. I have interviewed for in house jobs too in the past but nothing has been the right fit.

I really don’t want to outsource more related to my kids because I want to be with them, which is my top priority in the mornings and after work until they go to bed.

We need a good income because we have one in private elementary, eventually two, a nice house, nice cars, etc. we could certainly be a bit more frugal with cars and things, but not education.

Ask your children what THEY need. Do they want private school, nice house, nice cars, or do they want to know their parents? You sound materialistic and shallow. I hope your nanny shows the kids love and attention.

I think this is unfair. I'm sure OP loves her kids and shows them that. Having to work long hours doesn't make you a bad parent. Let's not mom shame here.

For the record, I'm dad shaming too. 2 parents who see their kid for 30 minutes a day are, in fact, bad parents.

let's be honest here, these two parents are not working multiple jobs to make ends meet. They are working the long hours to sustain a certain lifestyle. Their choices are either quit the rat race and cut back on the spending, or, keep working this much to hire live-in nanny/chef/housekeeper to take care of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am so burnt out but we need the income so me leaving my job really isn’t an option.

Your family can't live on $500k? Half a million dollars? Please.

DH and I make way less than that for the last 10 years and still managed to put 2 kids through private 1st-12th (one is headed to private college full pay) + investment properties and good savings. We saved like crazy for the first 10 years when we made close to $500K but never over that. We still have the old super reliable SUV we bought 19 years ago + a hybrid family sedan. Never saw the need for fancy cars or purses, or jewelry. The biggest splurge, aside from kids' tuition is the annual week-long beach trip.

You can do this. Hop off that hamster wheel before it is too late. You only have a few precious years with the kids and a lot of years after that to keep earning a living.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

Why are you cooking and cleaning at 8pm...?!If I had your income, I would never cook or clean. Ever.

Unless you have 24/7 help, which is REALLY expensive, rich people have to clean up after dinner too.

Are you kidding me? These people make THREE QUARTERS OF A MILLION DOLLARS. If they can't afford a full-time housekeeper, they are doing something wrong. Stack the dinner dishes in the sink to soak, wipe the counters, and let the housekeeper deal with them in the morning.

Why are some of you so bad with money? Really undercuts that idea of meritocracy when rich people are so bad at being rich.

Yep. My aunt and uncle are a neurologist/nurse combo and bring home about 750k. They do precisely that. Dishes in sink. Quick wipe. Housekeeper comes daily in the morning to clean, do laundry, unpack any grocery delivery etc. op, you are bad at being rich because you don’t even realize you are rich.

But are your aunt and uncle also paying for a FT nanny and private school? That’s a chunk of change right there... guessing over $100k/yr.

So assuming they need to gross $200k to pay for the nanny and private school, they only have half a million dollars left. Practically paupers! No way can they afford a housekeeper, amirite?

FFS.

It’s so funny how, when engaging in counting other people’s money, people tend to assume away all taxes.

You couldn't cover one one kid in private school plus one full-time nanny with $200k after taxes? How much are we paying the nanny? Surely OP's 6 yo isn't in boarding school.

Every dollar someone spends on a daily housekeeper, full time nanny, and private school tuition is money they can’t put toward retirement. Obviously if OP spends all their money on improving QOL today they can have tons of luxuries but I assume they’re trying to balance savings against spending.

OP has wants, not needs. If OP doesn’t want to compromise then she has to accept that there will be less time for the family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.

I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.

We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.

We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.

OP you are effing ridiculous. You make $750k/year and “it doesn’t go as far as it should”?! Wtf. You are LOADED and completely out of touch. I can’t even.

How do you not live an overly extravagant lifestyle if $750K is not cutting it. So privileged and don't even realize.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry OP but you are blind. $500k per year should more than cover everything you want. Also, why don’t you buy a new build in Pimmit Hills for $1.6-1.7m? Then you can keep your space, cars, private school but you’ll probably have a tiny mortgage and you’ll be able to see your kids grow up.

I make $175k, my husband makes $250k and we pay for everything you pay for and we’re very comfortable. If my husband was making $500k there is no way I would be working instead of watching my kids grow up. And I’m sure some people would say that for my husbands current income. Which just shows how easy it is to become blind to these things.

But really, half a million dollars is enough for everything you want. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP but you are blind. $500k per year should more than cover everything you want. Also, why don’t you buy a new build in Pimmit Hills for $1.6-1.7m? Then you can keep your space, cars, private school but you’ll probably have a tiny mortgage and you’ll be able to see your kids grow up.

I make $175k, my husband makes $250k and we pay for everything you pay for and we’re very comfortable. If my husband was making $500k there is no way I would be working instead of watching my kids grow up. And I’m sure some people would say that for my husbands current income. Which just shows how easy it is to become blind to these things.

But really, half a million dollars is enough for everything you want. Period.

The majority of American families survive on way less HHI than that....

With a HHI of $750K, OP is crying poor, this is beyond ridiculous and pathetic.

[Anonymous]

If you want to keep working, that’s your choice I guess … but it sounds like you need an evening babysitter to help your kids at night in addition to your daytime nanny. But, honestly, I’d quit and take the income/lifestyle hit, such as it were, because I can’t imagine one income of $500k not being enough. My husband makes $200k and I SAH and it’s more than fine. The public schools around here are excellent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry OP but you are blind. $500k per year should more than cover everything you want. Also, why don’t you buy a new build in Pimmit Hills for $1.6-1.7m? Then you can keep your space, cars, private school but you’ll probably have a tiny mortgage and you’ll be able to see your kids grow up.

I make $175k, my husband makes $250k and we pay for everything you pay for and we’re very comfortable. If my husband was making $500k there is no way I would be working instead of watching my kids grow up. And I’m sure some people would say that for my husbands current income. Which just shows how easy it is to become blind to these things.

But really, half a million dollars is enough for everything you want. Period.

The majority of American families survive on way less HHI than that....

With a HHI of $750K, OP is crying poor, this is beyond ridiculous and pathetic.

She’s not crying poor. She’s objecting to hiring a full domestic staff like she’s a Duchess. Come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. We both work in law. DH is working on many more complicated deals now which is why the hours are so bad.

I am at a different firm that is also pretty demanding. Neither of us really has the ability to but back our hours and while I could take somewhat of a step back with less pay,
I can’t find any firms that actually have that option. No one wants a lawyer who is only willing to work 40 hours per week. I have interviewed for in house jobs too in the past but nothing has been the right fit.

I really don’t want to outsource more related to my kids because I want to be with them, which is my top priority in the mornings and after work until they go to bed.

We need a good income because we have one in private elementary, eventually two, a nice house, nice cars, etc. we could certainly be a bit more frugal with cars and things, but not education.

This sums up working America. We live to work because we WANT so many things! Learn to live more frugally and you know what you get? Time and freedom. Invaluable commodities

[Anonymous]

I would add a part-time housekeeper to take care of absolutely everything that can be covered by someone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't work quite your hours, but I leave the house at 7 to commute and get home at 5:30. I also work after hours for 2-3 hours once kids are in their beds. I am a teacher and make 90,000. My DH works at a college and makes 65,000.

With extra money, I would hire housekeeper to come three days a week for 2-3 hours. So bathrooms get done twice, kitchen each time, good maintenance cleaning and do laundry. It is hard to find a service that will do laundry and put it away but a private person would do it.

I would buy those healthy freezer meals - like eat local kind of things. Not Blue Apron but already prepared frozen. Have nanny put it in the oven at 4:45 and then it is ready at dinner. Open a container of salad and viola.

I would not outsource forms and such. Too much time teaching someone what you need. We don't have too much dry cleaning, but I know they deliver.

I already do grocery delivery.

Life is pretty doable being out of the house 7-5:30. dH gone 8:30-6:30. If we had an extra 600,000 life would be pretty great.

Some perspective. Thank you, PP!!

[Anonymous]

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I am so burnt out but we need the income so me leaving my job really isn’t an option.

Your family can't live on $500k? Half a million dollars? Please.

My thoughts exactly. We both have flexible 40 hour a week jobs and make about 425k a year. Life is great and we feel very fortunate. OP doesn't "need the income" of 750k+.

same. 40 hr/week jobs and an HHI of 300k. We have plenty!!

It IS an option and it is incredibly tone deaf to not think you (OP) are exactly in the position of someone who has a LOT of choices. You could quit your job tomorrow and...what? You would "only" have a 500k income? Yes. That's a ton of options many people don't have at all. You could scale back and make a measly 150k but get your life back and spend more time with your kids? That's also on the table. OP honestly has the world at her fingertips in terms of options and choices. At a certain point, it is about priorities. And if your priority is to keep up with this rat race? Sure, go for it. There are many suggestions in this thread about hiring out EVERYTHING and unless you're a total financial delinquent they are feasible on this income. So do that. I think this sounds miserable, and I am an ambitious and career oriented person (to an extent!) but crying poverty over anything less than 750k a year is total bunk.

[Anonymous]

OP, if you just said you wanted/valued your career/position and that's why you want to make this work, that would be fine. Suppose it was a female surgeon who'd been through years of school and training and didn't want to give it up.

But to say you need to work bc your DH's $500k is not enough $$ for you. Just UGH.

[Anonymous]

Why can’t your husband take a longer break from work to help with dinner and the kids, then work a little bit later until the night?

Don’t mommy track just because he is not stepping up. That’s not fair and you will regret it. He needs to step up for a couple hours in the evenings and be more present for the family.