Where do private schools really get you in life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a public school and then attended three Ivies. I now teach at a top university. My education prepared me well and I never felt otherwise — I was at the top of my class at a very competitive Ivy.

The biggest difference I notice is that private school kids can be more confident and more entitled. This makes sense as they are used to having more resources, including things like adult attention and encouragement. They don’t feel bad asking for my time and they can be surprised if they don’t do as well as they expect. This is the opposite of public school kids who often expect nothing, even when they have access to more.

I suspect many of the differences also come down to social class and other factors. I just didn’t know a lot of things about how the world worked, connections, etc. My parents didn’t have any of that stuff. They just taught me to work hard and do my best. I think private schools encourage self-discovery and have a lot of resources for students to orient themselves to the world outside school.

Using one example, where a top student in ivy is from the public school system, to argue that the public school is as good as or better than the private school is not a fair comparison. Rather, the question should be if the same person is educated in a private school, would he even do better?

I think for most kids, the answer is YES. The reason is simple. The parents have paid significant amount of money, thus the private school offers smaller classes, more extra curriculums, and being more responsive to parents feedbacks.

The real question is if the investment is worth the difference/improvement. I think this depends on the kids and the parents. Note that all the top public school are in rich neighborhood. While these kids are in public school system, their parents are resource rich and likely invest significantly outside of the school.

NP: DH and I went to public, and kids went public then private. The bolded rings true to me. On the asking or not asking for time, this is encouraged in private school and you are actually not going to get a very good recommendation if you don't "show intellectual curiosity" by doing it. On the other hand, it is generally (not always) viewed as a weakness in public schools, where only people who need help go to the teachers; otherwise, you are an annoying suck up taking the teacher's time away from kids who need it. Also true is the greater opportunity to engage in extra curricular activities. Each of my kids is now engaged in at least three activities that would have been closed off to them had they gone to the public high school, either due to lack of room, or too much competition, or lack of interest in something that is now required, not optional. They have grown so much from these experience that they otherwise would not have had. They aren't great at all of it, but they get to do it. They have watched their friends who went to the public middle and high schools drop activities they used to love, one by one, because they didn't make the team, got cut from the play, and so on, mostly because there just isn't room for everyone to be involved, and so lots of kids who aren't the superstars end up with nothing, and for quite a few of them it has lead to serious depression. This is especially true when their parents can't afford the outside of school equivalent of these activities or the extra training to make them competitive in a crowded field.

[Anonymous]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/04/private-schools-are-indefensible/618078/

[Anonymous]

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2021/03/22/do-top-colleges-favor-applicants-who-are-extremely-wealthy?utm_source=Inside+Higher+Ed&utm_campaign=0682325c71-DNU_2021_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1fcbc04421-0682325c71-236546326&mc_cid=0682325c71&mc_eid=dbec3a5d45

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have struggled with this. My kid was waitlisted this year at several privates. Got into their first choice, but out (the parents) second. We had our hearts set on one if the more elite schools were they were waitlisted.

My question is the elite privates are supposed to give you a to the Ivies and best colleges. But does where your kid goes to school really matter?? And why? Seems to me that if you have a bright innovative kid that they will succeed in life regardless of where they go to college?

Why the stress? Why the expense? Looking for real world examples.

Connections. Networking. My husband went to one of the privates in the area and he keeps in touch with a group of guys he went to school with. He goes to some of the alumni events which feature people like Supreme Court justices, corporate leaders, etc. One of those guys gave me a job sight unseen when we moved to the area years ago and I was job-hunting. It wasn't a forever job, but I had a paycheck.

Husband is happy at his current job, but will likely leverage those connections in a few years to make a move into a different field.

Also, he has those friendships. The guys get together for a trip every year or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s a real misconception that people choose or should choose private schools for college acceptances. Choose the school because it’s the kind of secondary education you want your child to have. If you have a good public option, why not take it? Absolutely your child can thrive in either.

We did not have a good public option, so our choices were move or private. Private made sense for us. It sounds like it may not make sense for you

I’m a product of public school. Not ashamed or embarrassed but wanted a better education for my children. My kids are at a top DC private. They are getting a truly outstanding education - something I didn’t have. Most public schools are inferior. No judgment, and it is what it is. Yes, I’d love for them to have a leg up in college admissions but they likely won’t. However, I feel confident that when they are out in the world they will be better educated than about 90-95 percent of the population. It’s already obvious when they around peers that haven’t had the same opportunities. They operate at a different level so for me it’s worth it.

It’s statements like these that keep these discussions going. Public schools in general are not inferior to private, particularly not those in good school districts or notable ranked. Are they different? Yes, but that does not make them inferior. In fact, because of their size and makeup they often teach and require life skills and soft skills that are harder to come by in private. For instance, I find that generally by a huge margin public school kids that are doing well are better able to work with a greater variety of people, better able to advocate for themselves, and generally don’t need as much hand holding. Private school kids of a certain type better understand how to navigate some social and corporate aspects of the world. They also tend to present with a confidence of belonging in a particular place(this can be both good and bad). Overall, I don’t feel academically either is better than the other. Particularly not in ways that are relevant once College and internship are taken into consideration

I’m PP. Your assessment that public and private are generally equal really only applies if you grew up in an area like DC, where lots of wealthy and educated families send their kids to public schools. It’s obvious you grew up in one of these environments. Try leaving the DMV bubble and you’d understand that for 90 percent of the country, public schools are clearly inferior.

I want to add that your other points are well-taken and I agree. In fact, I worry every day that my kids won’t have the same perseverance and grit my DH and I had coming out of public school. But we are both outliers. The reality is that the academics in most public schools vs a top private will never match up. It stinks, but it’s reality.

I'm guessing you're from the South. Correct? I'm from California and has excellent public schools. I have friends who are successful professionals in the DC area who grew up throughout the country and all of them went to public school except those who grew up in the South. Gee, I wonder what that could be about.

[Anonymous]

I read a book called "The Chosen" about college admissions + those lucky enough to be selected for top colleges. The same is true for top elite privates. The kids are confident in knowing they are the chosen ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have struggled with this. My kid was waitlisted this year at several privates. Got into their first choice, but out (the parents) second. We had our hearts set on one if the more elite schools were they were waitlisted.

My question is the elite privates are supposed to give you a to the Ivies and best colleges. But does where your kid goes to school really matter?? And why? Seems to me that if you have a bright innovative kid that they will succeed in life regardless of where they go to college?

Why the stress? Why the expense? Looking for real world examples.

Connections. Networking. My husband went to one of the privates in the area and he keeps in touch with a group of guys he went to school with. He goes to some of the alumni events which feature people like Supreme Court justices, corporate leaders, etc. One of those guys gave me a job sight unseen when we moved to the area years ago and I was job-hunting. It wasn't a forever job, but I had a paycheck.

Husband is happy at his current job, but will likely leverage those connections in a few years to make a move into a different field.

Also, he has those friendships. The guys get together for a trip every year or so.

This is insane. I get together with my friends from high school for a trip every year or so too. What does this have to do with anything?

What you are describing seems to boil down to the idea that people who could afford private school growing up (and their spouses) are a superior caste and deserve preferential treatment from one another in adult life. Ick.

Other terms that come to mind are clannishness and opportunity hoarding.

If you don't see what's wrong with this, I highly, highly recommend taking a look at this book, which is great.

https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Hoarders-American-Leaving-Everyone/dp/081572912X

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s a real misconception that people choose or should choose private schools for college acceptances. Choose the school because it’s the kind of secondary education you want your child to have. If you have a good public option, why not take it? Absolutely your child can thrive in either.

We did not have a good public option, so our choices were move or private. Private made sense for us. It sounds like it may not make sense for you

I’m a product of public school. Not ashamed or embarrassed but wanted a better education for my children. My kids are at a top DC private. They are getting a truly outstanding education - something I didn’t have. Most public schools are inferior. No judgment, and it is what it is. Yes, I’d love for them to have a leg up in college admissions but they likely won’t. However, I feel confident that when they are out in the world they will be better educated than about 90-95 percent of the population. It’s already obvious when they around peers that haven’t had the same opportunities. They operate at a different level so for me it’s worth it.

It’s statements like these that keep these discussions going. Public schools in general are not inferior to private, particularly not those in good school districts or notable ranked. Are they different? Yes, but that does not make them inferior. In fact, because of their size and makeup they often teach and require life skills and soft skills that are harder to come by in private. For instance, I find that generally by a huge margin public school kids that are doing well are better able to work with a greater variety of people, better able to advocate for themselves, and generally don’t need as much hand holding. Private school kids of a certain type better understand how to navigate some social and corporate aspects of the world. They also tend to present with a confidence of belonging in a particular place(this can be both good and bad). Overall, I don’t feel academically either is better than the other. Particularly not in ways that are relevant once College and internship are taken into consideration

I’m PP. Your assessment that public and private are generally equal really only applies if you grew up in an area like DC, where lots of wealthy and educated families send their kids to public schools. It’s obvious you grew up in one of these environments. Try leaving the DMV bubble and you’d understand that for 90 percent of the country, public schools are clearly inferior.

I want to add that your other points are well-taken and I agree. In fact, I worry every day that my kids won’t have the same perseverance and grit my DH and I had coming out of public school. But we are both outliers. The reality is that the academics in most public schools vs a top private will never match up. It stinks, but it’s reality.

I'm guessing you're from the South. Correct? I'm from California and has excellent public schools. I have friends who are successful professionals in the DC area who grew up throughout the country and all of them went to public school except those who grew up in the South. Gee, I wonder what that could be about.

PP here, typing too fast on phone. Meant to write: I'm from California and ATTENDED excellent public schools growing up. In my wealthy university town one went to private school unless their parents preferred single sex or religious school, or they had special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have struggled with this. My kid was waitlisted this year at several privates. Got into their first choice, but out (the parents) second. We had our hearts set on one if the more elite schools were they were waitlisted.

My question is the elite privates are supposed to give you a to the Ivies and best colleges. But does where your kid goes to school really matter?? And why? Seems to me that if you have a bright innovative kid that they will succeed in life regardless of where they go to college?

Why the stress? Why the expense? Looking for real world examples.

Connections. Networking. My husband went to one of the privates in the area and he keeps in touch with a group of guys he went to school with. He goes to some of the alumni events which feature people like Supreme Court justices, corporate leaders, etc. One of those guys gave me a job sight unseen when we moved to the area years ago and I was job-hunting. It wasn't a forever job, but I had a paycheck.

Husband is happy at his current job, but will likely leverage those connections in a few years to make a move into a different field.

Also, he has those friendships. The guys get together for a trip every year or so.

This is insane. I get together with my friends from high school for a trip every year or so too. What does this have to do with anything?

What you are describing seems to boil down to the idea that people who could afford private school growing up (and their spouses) are a superior caste and deserve preferential treatment from one another in adult life. Ick.

Other terms that come to mind are clannishness and opportunity hoarding.

If you don't see what's wrong with this, I highly, highly recommend taking a look at this book, which is great.

https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Hoarders-American-Leaving-Everyone/dp/081572912X

And you’re now describing the entire Greek system, certain college sports teams, church affiliation and/or religious views and the countless numbers of communities that hoard opportunities and resources for their own idea of the chosen few.

[Anonymous]

Here’s a thought: CVs for everything from jobs to residencies are screened by computers today and even better AI tools tomorrow. Maybe it gets more nuanced, but it’s likely to rely on the brand more and more making fewer and fewer more and more privileged. We are at Big 3 and went to a Big 3 type college. It’s a self-reinforcing value proposition. We went into this big public school proponents, and ended up choosing the best of the best. One other thing, once you are on track it’s easier to stay tracking. What I worry about is making sure my child’s happy! They seem to enjoy Big 3 way better than anything else they tried including DCPS; in fact love it. Ivies are not our goal; we feel we bought them space to be creative but they seem to self-motivate. My inner fight deep down is not Big 3 or cut price or public school? That’s kind of obvious. It’s formal education as we know it or something more progressive for our (collective our) talented children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have struggled with this. My kid was waitlisted this year at several privates. Got into their first choice, but out (the parents) second. We had our hearts set on one if the more elite schools were they were waitlisted.

My question is the elite privates are supposed to give you a to the Ivies and best colleges. But does where your kid goes to school really matter?? And why? Seems to me that if you have a bright innovative kid that they will succeed in life regardless of where they go to college?

Why the stress? Why the expense? Looking for real world examples.

Connections. Networking. My husband went to one of the privates in the area and he keeps in touch with a group of guys he went to school with. He goes to some of the alumni events which feature people like Supreme Court justices, corporate leaders, etc. One of those guys gave me a job sight unseen when we moved to the area years ago and I was job-hunting. It wasn't a forever job, but I had a paycheck.

Husband is happy at his current job, but will likely leverage those connections in a few years to make a move into a different field.

Also, he has those friendships. The guys get together for a trip every year or so.

This is insane. I get together with my friends from high school for a trip every year or so too. What does this have to do with anything?

What you are describing seems to boil down to the idea that people who could afford private school growing up (and their spouses) are a superior caste and deserve preferential treatment from one another in adult life. Ick.

Other terms that come to mind are clannishness and opportunity hoarding.

If you don't see what's wrong with this, I highly, highly recommend taking a look at this book, which is great.

https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Hoarders-American-Leaving-Everyone/dp/081572912X

And you’re now describing the entire Greek system, certain college sports teams, church affiliation and/or religious views and the countless numbers of communities that hoard opportunities and resources for their own idea of the chosen few.

Greek system, yes, insofar as it excludes people who can't pay a certain amount of money--ie part of its purpose is to keep affluent people with other affluence people. (A great book about this is Paying for the Party by Jennifer Hirsch, a fascinating multi-year sociological study of women in the Greek system and their parents' motives for encouraging that choice.)

Networking based on the other categories you mention seems less problematic insofar as they are at least ostensibly motivated by mutual affinities and interests other than simply "keep the poors out." I'm not anti-networking. But I do think that the winners in our current system need to think critically about their own role in widening socio-economic inequality. The road we are headed down is not good for anyone.






t that are composed of people

[Anonymous]

Elite high schools on LinkedIn and resumes, it’s a thing, and opens doors. I see Palo Alto High school all the time, and that’s public. Just the way the world works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a thought: CVs for everything from jobs to residencies are screened by computers today and even better AI tools tomorrow. Maybe it gets more nuanced, but it’s likely to rely on the brand more and more making fewer and fewer more and more privileged. We are at Big 3 and went to a Big 3 type college. It’s a self-reinforcing value proposition. We went into this big public school proponents, and ended up choosing the best of the best. One other thing, once you are on track it’s easier to stay tracking. What I worry about is making sure my child’s happy! They seem to enjoy Big 3 way better than anything else they tried including DCPS; in fact love it. Ivies are not our goal; we feel we bought them space to be creative but they seem to self-motivate. My inner fight deep down is not Big 3 or cut price or public school? That’s kind of obvious. It’s formal education as we know it or something more progressive for our (collective our) talented children

Emphatically agree with last line. schools for our (yes, collective our) need to be orders of magnitude different than they are now. I hope that having opted your kids out of public school you can find ways to advocate for better, more interesting, more effective alternatives for ALL kids...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have struggled with this. My kid was waitlisted this year at several privates. Got into their first choice, but out (the parents) second. We had our hearts set on one if the more elite schools were they were waitlisted.

My question is the elite privates are supposed to give you a to the Ivies and best colleges. But does where your kid goes to school really matter?? And why? Seems to me that if you have a bright innovative kid that they will succeed in life regardless of where they go to college?

Why the stress? Why the expense? Looking for real world examples.

Connections. Networking. My husband went to one of the privates in the area and he keeps in touch with a group of guys he went to school with. He goes to some of the alumni events which feature people like Supreme Court justices, corporate leaders, etc. One of those guys gave me a job sight unseen when we moved to the area years ago and I was job-hunting. It wasn't a forever job, but I had a paycheck.

Husband is happy at his current job, but will likely leverage those connections in a few years to make a move into a different field.

Also, he has those friendships. The guys get together for a trip every year or so.

This is insane. I get together with my friends from high school for a trip every year or so too. What does this have to do with anything?

What you are describing seems to boil down to the idea that people who could afford private school growing up (and their spouses) are a superior caste and deserve preferential treatment from one another in adult life. Ick.

Other terms that come to mind are clannishness and opportunity hoarding.

If you don't see what's wrong with this, I highly, highly recommend taking a look at this book, which is great.

https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Hoarders-American-Leaving-Everyone/dp/081572912X

And you’re now describing the entire Greek system, certain college sports teams, church affiliation and/or religious views and the countless numbers of communities that hoard opportunities and resources for their own idea of the chosen few.

Greek system, yes, insofar as it excludes people who can't pay a certain amount of money--ie part of its purpose is to keep affluent people with other affluence people. (A great book about this is Paying for the Party by Jennifer Hirsch, a fascinating multi-year sociological study of women in the Greek system and their parents' motives for encouraging that choice.)

Networking based on the other categories you mention seems less problematic insofar as they are at least ostensibly motivated by mutual affinities and interests other than simply "keep the poors out." I'm not anti-networking. But I do think that the winners in our current system need to think critically about their own role in widening socio-economic inequality. The road we are headed down is not good for anyone.

PP here, correction, Paying for the Party is by the sociologists Elizabeth A. Armstrong and Laura T. Hamilton. (Jennifer Hirsch is herself an awesome sociologist--author of Sexual Citizens, another great book about college life today.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have struggled with this. My kid was waitlisted this year at several privates. Got into their first choice, but out (the parents) second. We had our hearts set on one if the more elite schools were they were waitlisted.

My question is the elite privates are supposed to give you a to the Ivies and best colleges. But does where your kid goes to school really matter?? And why? Seems to me that if you have a bright innovative kid that they will succeed in life regardless of where they go to college?

Why the stress? Why the expense? Looking for real world examples.

OP there is no clear answer.

Every experience is different.

What is important is that a child is educated period, no one will ever be able to take that away from them. But does private automatically mean more success, 100% no.