Pediatricians advising against daycare?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the stupider threads I've seen on DCUM (and there have been some doozies.) Ponder if you will, the following breakdown of employment by industry sector in the US: ~13% are in manufacturing and construction; ~80% are in services, including retail, leisure and hospitality, etc. In other words, most Americans work in industries, where they can't get creative with their work schedules or work from home and still expect to keep a job. Also (and I don't have stats for this, just anecdotal evidence), a lot of parents would love to stay at home with their kids until this blows over. But, in order to keep said kids clothed, fed, to be able to pay the bills for that pediatrician that so helpfully told them not to send their kids back to daycare, etc., they need to, you know, work to make money.

On top of that, we as a society are having kids later in life/tend to move around more than ever before, so the traditional safety net of family to take care of the kids is simply no longer there. Add in the massive income gap and the fact that middle class wages are barely keeping pace with inflation, while the cost of living (housing, education, health care, child care) have exploded -- what it adds up to is that for most Americans, daycare is not a "nice-to-have," it's a "must-have," if they hope to keep their head above water financially.

And no, Francine, most Americans can't simply afford to "hire a nanny," "bring in an au pair," "negotiate flex time with their employer." And it doesn't matter one bit, if from your UMC bubble you happen to think it's gross or irresponsible. For the economy to reopen, daycare needs to reopen as well. If it doesn't, the only choice for most two-parent working families would be for one to stop working and stay at home (not even talking about the impossible choices faced by single parents), which would drive them further into poverty and stretch the barely-there social safety net we have in place now. More demand on your taxpayer dollar! That should get your attention

Do you live in the dc area? If so, you know those industry breakdowns are nonsense here. They aren’t worth the time you spent googling and rewording your snark.

The issue isn’t that childcare isn’t necessary. It’s that it isn’t safe. Can you imagine the outrage on DCUM if a single private k-12 school decided to open right now? Parents would throw a fit about how they were endangering lives. Teachers would protest. It would make national and likely international news. The government would shut it down. Not because it’s not necessary, but because it’s not safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the stupider threads I've seen on DCUM (and there have been some doozies.) Ponder if you will, the following breakdown of employment by industry sector in the US: ~13% are in manufacturing and construction; ~80% are in services, including retail, leisure and hospitality, etc. In other words, most Americans work in industries, where they can't get creative with their work schedules or work from home and still expect to keep a job. Also (and I don't have stats for this, just anecdotal evidence), a lot of parents would love to stay at home with their kids until this blows over. But, in order to keep said kids clothed, fed, to be able to pay the bills for that pediatrician that so helpfully told them not to send their kids back to daycare, etc., they need to, you know, work to make money.

On top of that, we as a society are having kids later in life/tend to move around more than ever before, so the traditional safety net of family to take care of the kids is simply no longer there. Add in the massive income gap and the fact that middle class wages are barely keeping pace with inflation, while the cost of living (housing, education, health care, child care) have exploded -- what it adds up to is that for most Americans, daycare is not a "nice-to-have," it's a "must-have," if they hope to keep their head above water financially.

And no, Francine, most Americans can't simply afford to "hire a nanny," "bring in an au pair," "negotiate flex time with their employer." And it doesn't matter one bit, if from your UMC bubble you happen to think it's gross or irresponsible. For the economy to reopen, daycare needs to reopen as well. If it doesn't, the only choice for most two-parent working families would be for one to stop working and stay at home (not even talking about the impossible choices faced by single parents), which would drive them further into poverty and stretch the barely-there social safety net we have in place now. More demand on your taxpayer dollar! That should get your attention

This is a policy problem. A pediatrician's role is to give a medical opinion. Daycare is necessary for society to function. That doesn't mean that it is safe from a medical perspective weighing the risks. A pediatrician will tell a parent if they have other options to avoid daycare right now as it presents a high risk of spreading infection. They cannot weigh the pro and cons of losing your job and the effect this might have on a family, only give medical advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the stupider threads I've seen on DCUM (and there have been some doozies.) Ponder if you will, the following breakdown of employment by industry sector in the US: ~13% are in manufacturing and construction; ~80% are in services, including retail, leisure and hospitality, etc. In other words, most Americans work in industries, where they can't get creative with their work schedules or work from home and still expect to keep a job. Also (and I don't have stats for this, just anecdotal evidence), a lot of parents would love to stay at home with their kids until this blows over. But, in order to keep said kids clothed, fed, to be able to pay the bills for that pediatrician that so helpfully told them not to send their kids back to daycare, etc., they need to, you know, work to make money.

On top of that, we as a society are having kids later in life/tend to move around more than ever before, so the traditional safety net of family to take care of the kids is simply no longer there. Add in the massive income gap and the fact that middle class wages are barely keeping pace with inflation, while the cost of living (housing, education, health care, child care) have exploded -- what it adds up to is that for most Americans, daycare is not a "nice-to-have," it's a "must-have," if they hope to keep their head above water financially.

And no, Francine, most Americans can't simply afford to "hire a nanny," "bring in an au pair," "negotiate flex time with their employer." And it doesn't matter one bit, if from your UMC bubble you happen to think it's gross or irresponsible. For the economy to reopen, daycare needs to reopen as well. If it doesn't, the only choice for most two-parent working families would be for one to stop working and stay at home (not even talking about the impossible choices faced by single parents), which would drive them further into poverty and stretch the barely-there social safety net we have in place now. More demand on your taxpayer dollar! That should get your attention

Do you live in the dc area? If so, you know those industry breakdowns are nonsense here. They aren’t worth the time you spent googling and rewording your snark.

The issue isn’t that childcare isn’t necessary. It’s that it isn’t safe. Can you imagine the outrage on DCUM if a single private k-12 school decided to open right now? Parents would throw a fit about how they were endangering lives. Teachers would protest. It would make national and likely international news. The government would shut it down. Not because it’s not necessary, but because it’s not safe.

hey genius -- every single kid in a daycare has to have adult supervision. in contrast, the majority of kids in a k-12 school can legally stay home alone while the parents work. that's why daycares are open for essential workers -- did you know they also care for school-aged kids too young to stay home alone and whose parents have to work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Dr. Fauci is unsure of whether or not it will even be safe for older kids to return to school this fall with masks and in desks 6 ft apart, how can daycares be considered even remotely safe right now?

Well, some people don’t have a choice.

Everybody has a choice. What would you do if your kid was in kindergarten? No school. No camp this summer. Now what.

Stop. For many healthcare workers and first responders, quitting their jobs is not a realistic choice. They need childcare. I have no idea how this thread turned into a "bash essential workers" thread. My job and DHs job can thankfully be done by home, and we're switching to a nanny based on our pediatrician's recommendation. We are incredibly privileged to be able to do so, and plenty of people are not in that boat. Have some empathy.

For the millionth time. There is not a single essential worker without childcare right now. No one is lacking empathy. People are lacking brains and creativity. Everyone wants the safety and convenience that they had in January. That is gone. It’s time to start brainstorming and find a new normal.

you're right -- i have childcare. it's my kid's preschool. without it, i have none.

[Anonymous]

"They aren’t worth the time you spent googling and rewording your snark." So your fallback is "If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger."

Let me try and make sense of your argument (if there is any sense to be made). So because the DC area has a larger concentration of lawyers and feds than the rest of the country that means...what exactly? That more people here have the choice to keep their kids from going back to daycare/hire a nanny instead? Sooo, people that have a choice will keep their kids home and those who don't will send them back, even if it might not be safe/they might expose and kill vulnerable family members, when they bring the virus home. Do I have it about right? In related news, bears sh*t in the woods and pointing this out does absolutely nothing but make people feel awful about the tough choices ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the essential workers saying you have to work so you have to use child care, this thread is about centers -- you could get a nanny or a babysitter share. That is what the NYT doctor in the parenting section recommended. It's a tough choice.

You realize that there are essential workers who can't afford nannies, right?

Exactly. I'm an essential worker and I already paid up front for tuition per the contract I signed. I'm supposed to get care through the end of August. It's so much money that I can't afford to also now hire more childcare at an even higher rate.

Ever had to pay two mortgages at one time? No?? So STFU.

The UMC privilege in this thread is mind boggling.

[Anonymous]

So can someone who has been following the whole thread tell me if peds ARE telling parents not to use daycare (aside from medically fragile kids)? I've not heard this in my area, which has been fairly hard hit and where people are taking COVID very seriously. I read about 4 pages and didn't see any posts by people saying they were told not to use daycare.

[Anonymous]

Lock these daycare operators up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So can someone who has been following the whole thread tell me if peds ARE telling parents not to use daycare (aside from medically fragile kids)? I've not heard this in my area, which has been fairly hard hit and where people are taking COVID very seriously. I read about 4 pages and didn't see any posts by people saying they were told not to use daycare.

Some peds are advising against it, yes. You'll find that in page 1 and then back on track on page 7. Of course, it is an individual risk assessment. My pediatrician is saying that you should anticipate the virus making its way through daycares despite best efforts, so if you and your family are comfortable with that risk given your individual circumstances, go for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the stupider threads I've seen on DCUM (and there have been some doozies.) Ponder if you will, the following breakdown of employment by industry sector in the US: ~13% are in manufacturing and construction; ~80% are in services, including retail, leisure and hospitality, etc. In other words, most Americans work in industries, where they can't get creative with their work schedules or work from home and still expect to keep a job. Also (and I don't have stats for this, just anecdotal evidence), a lot of parents would love to stay at home with their kids until this blows over. But, in order to keep said kids clothed, fed, to be able to pay the bills for that pediatrician that so helpfully told them not to send their kids back to daycare, etc., they need to, you know, work to make money.

On top of that, we as a society are having kids later in life/tend to move around more than ever before, so the traditional safety net of family to take care of the kids is simply no longer there. Add in the massive income gap and the fact that middle class wages are barely keeping pace with inflation, while the cost of living (housing, education, health care, child care) have exploded -- what it adds up to is that for most Americans, daycare is not a "nice-to-have," it's a "must-have," if they hope to keep their head above water financially.

And no, Francine, most Americans can't simply afford to "hire a nanny," "bring in an au pair," "negotiate flex time with their employer." And it doesn't matter one bit, if from your UMC bubble you happen to think it's gross or irresponsible. For the economy to reopen, daycare needs to reopen as well. If it doesn't, the only choice for most two-parent working families would be for one to stop working and stay at home (not even talking about the impossible choices faced by single parents), which would drive them further into poverty and stretch the barely-there social safety net we have in place now. More demand on your taxpayer dollar! That should get your attention

Do you live in the dc area? If so, you know those industry breakdowns are nonsense here. They aren’t worth the time you spent googling and rewording your snark.

The issue isn’t that childcare isn’t necessary. It’s that it isn’t safe. Can you imagine the outrage on DCUM if a single private k-12 school decided to open right now? Parents would throw a fit about how they were endangering lives. Teachers would protest. It would make national and likely international news. The government would shut it down. Not because it’s not necessary, but because it’s not safe.

Children are not the vector for the diseases that you seem to think. If they were, Swedish schools and daycares (which have been open the entire time) would be overrun with cases. But like here, it’s hitting older adults and nursing homes the hardest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the essential workers saying you have to work so you have to use child care, this thread is about centers -- you could get a nanny or a babysitter share. That is what the NYT doctor in the parenting section recommended. It's a tough choice.

You realize that there are essential workers who can't afford nannies, right?

NP here. I think this pandemic and the closure of daycares is highlighting how important childcare is to our economy. I think there should be some sort of government funded stipend working parents could use (or at least larger childcare tax deduction) that could go toward one-on-one childcare services. This would a) help out of work childcare providers and b) get the economy going because parents can work. It would also be much lower risk than a center setting. We are going to have to figure out something like this.

We aren’t sending our kids to daycare right now because we are fortunate to have work from home jobs. I can’t imagine sending them anytime soon, but I have nothing but understanding and empathy for parents in the tough position to send their children in. Everyone is doing the best they can to get by right now and everyone’s circumstances look different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"They aren’t worth the time you spent googling and rewording your snark." So your fallback is "If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger."

Let me try and make sense of your argument (if there is any sense to be made). So because the DC area has a larger concentration of lawyers and feds than the rest of the country that means...what exactly? That more people here have the choice to keep their kids from going back to daycare/hire a nanny instead? Sooo, people that have a choice will keep their kids home and those who don't will send them back, even if it might not be safe/they might expose and kill vulnerable family members, when they bring the virus home. Do I have it about right? In related news, bears sh*t in the woods and pointing this out does absolutely nothing but make people feel awful about the tough choices ahead.

Imagine how awful the person feels who will die from the disease because their relatives sent their kid to daycare and the kid gave you covid. They get to live and you get to die because of their selfish act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one of the stupider threads I've seen on DCUM (and there have been some doozies.) Ponder if you will, the following breakdown of employment by industry sector in the US: ~13% are in manufacturing and construction; ~80% are in services, including retail, leisure and hospitality, etc. In other words, most Americans work in industries, where they can't get creative with their work schedules or work from home and still expect to keep a job. Also (and I don't have stats for this, just anecdotal evidence), a lot of parents would love to stay at home with their kids until this blows over. But, in order to keep said kids clothed, fed, to be able to pay the bills for that pediatrician that so helpfully told them not to send their kids back to daycare, etc., they need to, you know, work to make money.

On top of that, we as a society are having kids later in life/tend to move around more than ever before, so the traditional safety net of family to take care of the kids is simply no longer there. Add in the massive income gap and the fact that middle class wages are barely keeping pace with inflation, while the cost of living (housing, education, health care, child care) have exploded -- what it adds up to is that for most Americans, daycare is not a "nice-to-have," it's a "must-have," if they hope to keep their head above water financially.

And no, Francine, most Americans can't simply afford to "hire a nanny," "bring in an au pair," "negotiate flex time with their employer." And it doesn't matter one bit, if from your UMC bubble you happen to think it's gross or irresponsible. For the economy to reopen, daycare needs to reopen as well. If it doesn't, the only choice for most two-parent working families would be for one to stop working and stay at home (not even talking about the impossible choices faced by single parents), which would drive them further into poverty and stretch the barely-there social safety net we have in place now. More demand on your taxpayer dollar! That should get your attention

Do you live in the dc area? If so, you know those industry breakdowns are nonsense here. They aren’t worth the time you spent googling and rewording your snark.

The issue isn’t that childcare isn’t necessary. It’s that it isn’t safe. Can you imagine the outrage on DCUM if a single private k-12 school decided to open right now? Parents would throw a fit about how they were endangering lives. Teachers would protest. It would make national and likely international news. The government would shut it down. Not because it’s not necessary, but because it’s not safe.

Children are not the vector for the diseases that you seem to think. If they were, Swedish schools and daycares (which have been open the entire time) would be overrun with cases. But like here, it’s hitting older adults and nursing homes the hardest.

Sweden? They are known for trying almost as hard as China to save face.
And an outbreak in a preschool isn’t going to be obvious. Since kids are often asymptomatic, it would look more like Johnny’s dad must have caught it at work, Ms. B must have caught it at the grocery store, and Sally’s mom and big sister must have caught it who knows where.

Do you know that there are currently hundreds of children in the ICU in the US fighting for their lives with multi-system inflammatory syndrome as a result of asymptomatic COVID? A handful have died in the last week.

This is no longer just a disease of the elderly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter has been going to daycare this entire time, since we are essential workers.

There have been no cases among teachers or kids at her center.

I haven't heard of any cases in MD linked to daycares.

Thank you. Thousands of other kids have been going too, OP. Look outside your bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"They aren’t worth the time you spent googling and rewording your snark." So your fallback is "If you can't attack the message, attack the messenger."

Let me try and make sense of your argument (if there is any sense to be made). So because the DC area has a larger concentration of lawyers and feds than the rest of the country that means...what exactly? That more people here have the choice to keep their kids from going back to daycare/hire a nanny instead? Sooo, people that have a choice will keep their kids home and those who don't will send them back, even if it might not be safe/they might expose and kill vulnerable family members, when they bring the virus home. Do I have it about right? In related news, bears sh*t in the woods and pointing this out does absolutely nothing but make people feel awful about the tough choices ahead.

Imagine how awful the person feels who will die from the disease because their relatives sent their kid to daycare and the kid gave you covid. They get to live and you get to die because of their selfish act.

Everyone has some choice and responsibility here. We are supposed to continue social distancing. If you are a vulnerable person, stay away from your child relative that goes to daycare. We are not using daycare at this time (although that may change if DH, who is an essential worker, goes back full time) but we are still staying within our family unit. If we do eventually send them to daycare, we will continue to avoid other people and assess the risks to our family unit.