Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

Exactly and everybody is posting about violent criminals which has nothing to do with this... this is only for kids with minor issues in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK. And the rest of it? Your opinion.

Do you really think that less than 10% of the kids in problem schools have behavior issues? Although it's hard to say and depends on each school, my opinion is that it's somewhere around 50%, give or take 10-20%, again depending on the specific school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

This is not true for the lower performing high FARMS schools, there are many more non IEP kids who are disruptive than the disruptive IEP kids.

This may be true in the wealthy neighborhoods because parents can game the IEP process more, but I doubt it's true there as well, esp. in middle schools where many kids just act out because they realize there are few repercussions.

The conclusion is that we really have a lack of discipline epidemic in schools. Starting in middle school, the rules should be much tougher on removing kids from misbehaving, and disrupting class.

What data are you basing your statements on?

The TOTAL MCPS special ed services is 11.7%. IEP would be a lot smaller than this, especially if they are harder to obtain at a high FARMS school. I'll let you do the math and estimate the % of disruptive kids at a FARMS school (hint, it's much higher).

So you are using unconscious bias to determine this. Okay!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

Exactly and everybody is posting about violent criminals which has nothing to do with this... this is only for kids with minor issues in school.

Dude, did you forget to read the multiple postings by a bunch of teachers outlining how they got verbally and physically assaulted by *middle school* students? And the other teachers who feared talking to them in hallways because they looked like they were ready to attack them? Do you consider these minor issues? Many of these incidents are indeed crimes and would be prosecuted outside the school halls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Detentions and suspensions are pointless. They accomplish nothing. They just be gotten rid of completely. Restorative justice is better but isn't appropriate for all scenarios where a response is needed. They need to look at the issues and figure out what to put in place to support the social, emotional, and behavioral needs of their students and to find consequences that lead to learning and improvement.

So when the boys raped their fellow football players, we are looking for restorative justice? Got it

They specifically stated that restorative justice is for minor incident not assault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

Exactly and everybody is posting about violent criminals which has nothing to do with this... this is only for kids with minor issues in school.

Dude, did you forget to read the multiple postings by a bunch of teachers outlining how they got verbally and physically assaulted by *middle school* students? And the other teachers who feared talking to them in hallways because they looked like they were ready to attack them? Do you consider these minor issues? Many of these incidents are indeed crimes and would be prosecuted outside the school halls.

It seems like a training issue. Did you also read that the teacher that posted said that after ONE group of black boys scared her she stopped trying to discipline ALL BLACK BOYS.

Truthfully, I would track her IP address and fire her if I could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

This is not true for the lower performing high FARMS schools, there are many more non IEP kids who are disruptive than the disruptive IEP kids.

This may be true in the wealthy neighborhoods because parents can game the IEP process more, but I doubt it's true there as well, esp. in middle schools where many kids just act out because they realize there are few repercussions.

The conclusion is that we really have a lack of discipline epidemic in schools. Starting in middle school, the rules should be much tougher on removing kids from misbehaving, and disrupting class.

What data are you basing your statements on?

The TOTAL MCPS special ed services is 11.7%. IEP would be a lot smaller than this, especially if they are harder to obtain at a high FARMS school. I'll let you do the math and estimate the % of disruptive kids at a FARMS school (hint, it's much higher).

So you are using unconscious bias to determine this. Okay!

Don't be thick, this is not bias. It's common sense. If you don't have any, then go read, listen to all the teachers who are frustrated with the system, and then form your own conclusion. Parroting "bias" is just staying in denial. Of course bias exists as well, but your common sense should tell you that in the many problem schools in our county, bias is dwarfed by real, actual, behavior issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

Exactly and everybody is posting about violent criminals which has nothing to do with this... this is only for kids with minor issues in school.

Dude, did you forget to read the multiple postings by a bunch of teachers outlining how they got verbally and physically assaulted by *middle school* students? And the other teachers who feared talking to them in hallways because they looked like they were ready to attack them? Do you consider these minor issues? Many of these incidents are indeed crimes and would be prosecuted outside the school halls.

It seems like a training issue. Did you also read that the teacher that posted said that after ONE group of black boys scared her she stopped trying to discipline ALL BLACK BOYS.

Truthfully, I would track her IP address and fire her if I could.

Yeah ok. Relax and stop taking things so personally. Perhaps consider putting yourself in her shoes (or in many of the other teachers who go in there and have to suffer abuse from ALL kinds of kids, not just black or hispanics). If teachers fear getting assaulted by their own students then reprimanded by admins, don't you think there's a bigger problem? Have you ever considered the fact that perhaps there are no rules they can even enforce? Would you sign up for that if you can't confront groups of people bigger than you in a professional environment? Now go and do it and report back how it will make you feel. Hint: powerless and ineffective. So she's perfectly within her right to avoid a situation that she believes may erupt in violence. She signed up to teach, not put her life at risk. And you are right, it is bias but I guarantee you every other person in her shoes would have the same thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

This is not true for the lower performing high FARMS schools, there are many more non IEP kids who are disruptive than the disruptive IEP kids.

This may be true in the wealthy neighborhoods because parents can game the IEP process more, but I doubt it's true there as well, esp. in middle schools where many kids just act out because they realize there are few repercussions.

The conclusion is that we really have a lack of discipline epidemic in schools. Starting in middle school, the rules should be much tougher on removing kids from misbehaving, and disrupting class.

What data are you basing your statements on?

The TOTAL MCPS special ed services is 11.7%. IEP would be a lot smaller than this, especially if they are harder to obtain at a high FARMS school. I'll let you do the math and estimate the % of disruptive kids at a FARMS school (hint, it's much higher).

So you are using unconscious bias to determine this. Okay!

Don't be thick, this is not bias. It's common sense. If you don't have any, then go read, listen to all the teachers who are frustrated with the system, and then form your own conclusion. Parroting "bias" is just staying in denial. Of course bias exists as well, but your common sense should tell you that in the many problem schools in our county, bias is dwarfed by real, actual, behavior issues.

"It's common sense" is what people say when they don't have any data to support their assertions.

I'm not saying this to be nasty or glib. This is an actual phenomenon.

Lots of things that people believe to be "common sense" aren't actually true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

This is not true for the lower performing high FARMS schools, there are many more non IEP kids who are disruptive than the disruptive IEP kids.

This may be true in the wealthy neighborhoods because parents can game the IEP process more, but I doubt it's true there as well, esp. in middle schools where many kids just act out because they realize there are few repercussions.

The conclusion is that we really have a lack of discipline epidemic in schools. Starting in middle school, the rules should be much tougher on removing kids from misbehaving, and disrupting class.

What data are you basing your statements on?

The TOTAL MCPS special ed services is 11.7%. IEP would be a lot smaller than this, especially if they are harder to obtain at a high FARMS school. I'll let you do the math and estimate the % of disruptive kids at a FARMS school (hint, it's much higher).

So you are using unconscious bias to determine this. Okay!

Don't be thick, this is not bias. It's common sense. If you don't have any, then go read, listen to all the teachers who are frustrated with the system, and then form your own conclusion. Parroting "bias" is just staying in denial. Of course bias exists as well, but your common sense should tell you that in the many problem schools in our county, bias is dwarfed by real, actual, behavior issues.

"It's common sense" is what people say when they don't have any data to support their assertions.

I'm not saying this to be nasty or glib. This is an actual phenomenon.

Lots of things that people believe to be "common sense" aren't actually true.

Yes, I'm aware that common sense may not be true without proof. Even so, that's my best Bayesian probability estimate, if that makes you happier In any case if you don't agree with my opinion feel free to provide counter evidence (which would be hard to get since schools don't track "disruptive" metric), or provide your alternate belief of what might be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP with the little kids who noticed skin color and "getting in trouble" - it actually happened, and it happened more than once as my kids entered a diverse ES from a lily-white preK environment (I have four kids).

I don't think it's because the kids of color behave worse than the white kids at our school. And I do have older kids - HS and MS - and (I literally just asked one of them) they said "I never see white kids getting disciplined, but I see black kids getting in trouble all the time." It's still about what you see.

I get why people are upset about bad behavior in the schools - I'm not denying it's there and it sucks for kids who behave - but what I don't get is the race to tear down efforts by MCPS to try to rectify the situation where kids of color are disproportionately disciplined for that behavior.

Why didn't your kids know and use these kids' names---instead of just referring to them in group, as you quoted, as "brown skin" kids. Aren't they friends with any of the kids. Based on your posts, that is odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

Exactly and everybody is posting about violent criminals which has nothing to do with this... this is only for kids with minor issues in school.

Dude, did you forget to read the multiple postings by a bunch of teachers outlining how they got verbally and physically assaulted by *middle school* students? And the other teachers who feared talking to them in hallways because they looked like they were ready to attack them? Do you consider these minor issues? Many of these incidents are indeed crimes and would be prosecuted outside the school halls.

I’m the teacher who posted this and I teach in elementary school:

I agree 100%. Also, the school where I teach is majority African American and Hispanic with a high FARMS rate. There are around 4 white kids per grade level. There are a few more Asian kids than that. We have two students who have been suspended this year for initiating a physical fight. One is African American and one is Hispanic. It's not a matter of us "picking on them" or calling them out for something that others wouldn't be called out for--but if you look at the statistics it looks bad. They assaulted another child which should carry consequences. But it's simply a matter of numbers. If a white or Asian kid initiated a physical fight or assault they would be suspended as well. The interesting thing is that the kids that were suspended for physical fighting have physically assaulted others since then, but they received in school suspension (which teachers have to volunteer to supervise) instead of out of school suspension to avoid making it official for data purposes.

I have personally been abused by students and have been told by admin that I must have done something to provoke them and also that what happened probably wasn't as bad as I thought it was and just needed to sit down with the child to work out why they felt angry enough to throw something at me or call me derogatory names.

Then we have to read in the media that we're all just racist and out to get kids of color. This just feeds the frenzy because kids have learned they can call us racist if they're asked to do anything they don't want to do. I love and care about my students and have worked in the high FARMS population for the majority of my career, but I just don't think I can do it anymore. I need to start prioritizing my own mental and physical health. MCPS certainly doesn't give a sh*it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here we are on page six, and has ANYBODY mentioned this?

"The majority of the suspensions were of special education students, according to the data."

Exactly and everybody is posting about violent criminals which has nothing to do with this... this is only for kids with minor issues in school.

Dude, did you forget to read the multiple postings by a bunch of teachers outlining how they got verbally and physically assaulted by *middle school* students? And the other teachers who feared talking to them in hallways because they looked like they were ready to attack them? Do you consider these minor issues? Many of these incidents are indeed crimes and would be prosecuted outside the school halls.

It seems like a training issue. Did you also read that the teacher that posted said that after ONE group of black boys scared her she stopped trying to discipline ALL BLACK BOYS.

Truthfully, I would track her IP address and fire her if I could.

With all the viral videos of black kids beating the crap out of teachers, I would avoid them after they threatened me too. 50K a year to deal with that crap? Heck no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Detentions and suspensions are pointless. They accomplish nothing. They just be gotten rid of completely. Restorative justice is better but isn't appropriate for all scenarios where a response is needed. They need to look at the issues and figure out what to put in place to support the social, emotional, and behavioral needs of their students and to find consequences that lead to learning and improvement.

That is the parent(s) or guardian's job. School is for education.

Someone will come here to say it is also the teacher's job. A low paying job and they have to pick up the slack for crappy parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, I'm aware that common sense may not be true without proof. Even so, that's my best Bayesian probability estimate, if that makes you happier In any case if you don't agree with my opinion feel free to provide counter evidence (which would be hard to get since schools don't track "disruptive" metric), or provide your alternate belief of what might be true.

No, that's not a Bayesian probability estimate, it's your opinion. You get to have your opinion. Everybody gets to have their opinion. But it's not data.