Huge changes to TJ admissions test beginning next year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just make it in Chinese.

The largest portion of Asian kids at TJ are Indian. But congrats on the alt facts.

Plus, this seems designed to make it harder for the Asian test prep contingent, no?

they need to shut TJ. its benefits are only to a few and has become a huge cost. long overdue to stop the entire out of control TJ process.

Only thing out of control is the emotional IQ of people like you who cannot accept change. What kind of phobia shall we call it?

here is the thread you meant to be posting on - http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/639015.page

TJ has become an embarrassment. From hundreds of postings like above to the thousands of Indians that groom their kids from pre-kindergarten onward have warped the system. TJ should be closed and the money redistributed to local high schools. Let these crazy parents have their children go to private school, just like they would have if they lived in their own homeland.

Get your head out of the dark place wherre it is now, and look at the mirror closely, your racially tinged posts are an embarrssment. You can't compete, so you want to change the rules. Guess what, the world is changing and those who cannot adapt will beccome extinct. TJ or not, the ethnic group that you are directing your bigotry will get good scores in schools, will go to top universities, and become successful engineers, doctors, lawyers, CEO's, politicians, so on... stop hating and your life might become more pleasant.

PP: Three questions, before you get all sanctimonious. I'm assuming you are a TJ parent, since you see fit to lecture TJ parents:

1. The cheating in the school is well documented (90 substantiated episodes this year alone). This isn't prepping. This is TJ kids who have been admitted and attend cheating. Do you think this is more prevalent in one ethnic group? For example-- sophomore cheating ring-- almost entirely one ethic group.

2. Why do you think TJ kids have so many academic integrity violations? Again-- 90 in the first 3 quarters of this year. That's a huge number for a school of about 1700 kids.

3. Do you think the cheating is okay, because it makes these kids more competitive?

For example, it appears to me as a TJ parent that cheating is concentrated in the Asian (esp Indian) kids. I think they cheat because of pressure at home to put GPA above honesty and integrity. And because there are no real consequences. And I do not think it is okay. At all. Certainly not the get ahead at any cost philosophy of many parents. It's an anonymous board, so let's be honest. TJ has a cheating problem among Asian students. Your turn...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just make it in Chinese.

The largest portion of Asian kids at TJ are Indian. But congrats on the alt facts.

Plus, this seems designed to make it harder for the Asian test prep contingent, no?

they need to shut TJ. its benefits are only to a few and has become a huge cost. long overdue to stop the entire out of control TJ process.

Only thing out of control is the emotional IQ of people like you who cannot accept change. What kind of phobia shall we call it?

here is the thread you meant to be posting on - http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/639015.page

TJ has become an embarrassment. From hundreds of postings like above to the thousands of Indians that groom their kids from pre-kindergarten onward have warped the system. TJ should be closed and the money redistributed to local high schools. Let these crazy parents have their children go to private school, just like they would have if they lived in their own homeland.

Get your head out of the dark place wherre it is now, and look at the mirror closely, your racially tinged posts are an embarrssment. You can't compete, so you want to change the rules. Guess what, the world is changing and those who cannot adapt will beccome extinct. TJ or not, the ethnic group that you are directing your bigotry will get good scores in schools, will go to top universities, and become successful engineers, doctors, lawyers, CEO's, politicians, so on... stop hating and your life might become more pleasant.

PP: Three questions, before you get all sanctimonious. I'm assuming you are a TJ parent, since you see fit to lecture TJ parents:

1. The cheating in the school is well documented (90 substantiated episodes this year alone). This isn't prepping. This is TJ kids who have been admitted and attend cheating. Do you think this is more prevalent in one ethnic group? For example-- sophomore cheating ring-- almost entirely one ethic group.

2. Why do you think TJ kids have so many academic integrity violations? Again-- 90 in the first 3 quarters of this year. That's a huge number for a school of about 1700 kids.

3. Do you think the cheating is okay, because it makes these kids more competitive?

For example, it appears to me as a TJ parent that cheating is concentrated in the Asian (esp Indian) kids. I think they cheat because of pressure at home to put GPA above honesty and integrity. And because there are no real consequences. And I do not think it is okay. At all. Certainly not the get ahead at any cost philosophy of many parents. It's an anonymous board, so let's be honest. TJ has a cheating problem among Asian students. Your turn...

PP here. The simple answer is NO. Cheating is unacceptable. I'm an Indian parent (new to TJ) and we were not raised that way. I fail to understand why the school does nothing about it. I will support all measures upto and including expulsion.

To answer your questions:
1- I don't know. My kid is not in TJ yet. Will be next year.
2. Because no one seems to have the courage to do anything about it. All I can and will do is make sure my kid is not one of them and advocate for stricter punishment.
3. NO; Absolutely NOT.

My sanctimony was related to other points that somehow seem to be clouding this simple discussion:
- Indians cheat in all walks of life
- They review old questions
- Preaching to others about how to lead an ethical life
- Go to private school
- etc.

[Anonymous]

DP here. I don't think there is an ethnic basis to the cheating that happens, and I think there are various reasons that kids might cheat.

I do think that some parents appear to have a different definition of what constitutes cheating and/or plagiarism and so are confused and upset when their kids are accused. Some parents seem to think that if it is not written down that something is cheating, then it is okay.

It doesn't seem fair to give the school system another job that the parents should be doing, but it is possible that FCPS will need to start educating kids and their parents from kindergarten on as to what constitutes cheating. They need to start enforcing standards, even when parents say, "Oh, my child had no idea that this was considered cheating!" Kids and parents will start to learn more about what is considered cheating when they see consequences being enforced, with a system of more serious consequences with each successive infraction.

Specifically to TJ, what if they chose the One Book and One Question this year to motivate thoughtful discussions about cheating, what it is, and how and why it hurts the cheater and the people around him? Teens are capable of thinking deeply and independently and this is a good time in their lives for them to consider ethical and moral questions and start to make their own decisions about right and wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just make it in Chinese.

The largest portion of Asian kids at TJ are Indian. But congrats on the alt facts.

Plus, this seems designed to make it harder for the Asian test prep contingent, no?

they need to shut TJ. its benefits are only to a few and has become a huge cost. long overdue to stop the entire out of control TJ process.

Only thing out of control is the emotional IQ of people like you who cannot accept change. What kind of phobia shall we call it?

here is the thread you meant to be posting on - http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/639015.page

TJ has become an embarrassment. From hundreds of postings like above to the thousands of Indians that groom their kids from pre-kindergarten onward have warped the system. TJ should be closed and the money redistributed to local high schools. Let these crazy parents have their children go to private school, just like they would have if they lived in their own homeland.

Get your head out of the dark place wherre it is now, and look at the mirror closely, your racially tinged posts are an embarrssment. You can't compete, so you want to change the rules. Guess what, the world is changing and those who cannot adapt will beccome extinct. TJ or not, the ethnic group that you are directing your bigotry will get good scores in schools, will go to top universities, and become successful engineers, doctors, lawyers, CEO's, politicians, so on... stop hating and your life might become more pleasant.

PP: Three questions, before you get all sanctimonious. I'm assuming you are a TJ parent, since you see fit to lecture TJ parents:

1. The cheating in the school is well documented (90 substantiated episodes this year alone). This isn't prepping. This is TJ kids who have been admitted and attend cheating. Do you think this is more prevalent in one ethnic group? For example-- sophomore cheating ring-- almost entirely one ethic group.

2. Why do you think TJ kids have so many academic integrity violations? Again-- 90 in the first 3 quarters of this year. That's a huge number for a school of about 1700 kids.

3. Do you think the cheating is okay, because it makes these kids more competitive?

For example, it appears to me as a TJ parent that cheating is concentrated in the Asian (esp Indian) kids. I think they cheat because of pressure at home to put GPA above honesty and integrity. And because there are no real consequences. And I do not think it is okay. At all. Certainly not the get ahead at any cost philosophy of many parents. It's an anonymous board, so let's be honest. TJ has a cheating problem among Asian students. Your turn...

PP here. The simple answer is NO. Cheating is unacceptable. I'm an Indian parent (new to TJ) and we were not raised that way. I fail to understand why the school does nothing about it. I will support all measures upto and including expulsion.

To answer your questions:
1- I don't know. My kid is not in TJ yet. Will be next year.
2. Because no one seems to have the courage to do anything about it. All I can and will do is make sure my kid is not one of them and advocate for stricter punishment.
3. NO; Absolutely NOT.

My sanctimony was related to other points that somehow seem to be clouding this simple discussion:
- Indians cheat in all walks of life
- They review old questions
- Preaching to others about how to lead an ethical life
- Go to private school
- etc.

well if you were raised in US, yes, cheating is not a part of life. But if you were raised in India and immigrated on the H1B/F1/OPT/H4/L1 tide from 1990, then it seems cheating IS a part of Indian culture.

It has been dubbed the “Vyapam scam” after the acronym for an examination board in the state of Madhya Pradesh that has a lot to say about who gets government jobs and coveted slots in medical schools. The scam involves bribes paid by students to get the high marks needed for these slots. Some of this illicit money was channeled into political campaigns, or so it is suspected.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/opinion/dangerous-corruption-in-india.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just make it in Chinese.

The largest portion of Asian kids at TJ are Indian. But congrats on the alt facts.

Plus, this seems designed to make it harder for the Asian test prep contingent, no?

they need to shut TJ. its benefits are only to a few and has become a huge cost. long overdue to stop the entire out of control TJ process.

Only thing out of control is the emotional IQ of people like you who cannot accept change. What kind of phobia shall we call it?

here is the thread you meant to be posting on - http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/639015.page

TJ has become an embarrassment. From hundreds of postings like above to the thousands of Indians that groom their kids from pre-kindergarten onward have warped the system. TJ should be closed and the money redistributed to local high schools. Let these crazy parents have their children go to private school, just like they would have if they lived in their own homeland.

Get your head out of the dark place wherre it is now, and look at the mirror closely, your racially tinged posts are an embarrssment. You can't compete, so you want to change the rules. Guess what, the world is changing and those who cannot adapt will beccome extinct. TJ or not, the ethnic group that you are directing your bigotry will get good scores in schools, will go to top universities, and become successful engineers, doctors, lawyers, CEO's, politicians, so on... stop hating and your life might become more pleasant.

PP: Three questions, before you get all sanctimonious. I'm assuming you are a TJ parent, since you see fit to lecture TJ parents:

1. The cheating in the school is well documented (90 substantiated episodes this year alone). This isn't prepping. This is TJ kids who have been admitted and attend cheating. Do you think this is more prevalent in one ethnic group? For example-- sophomore cheating ring-- almost entirely one ethic group.

2. Why do you think TJ kids have so many academic integrity violations? Again-- 90 in the first 3 quarters of this year. That's a huge number for a school of about 1700 kids.

3. Do you think the cheating is okay, because it makes these kids more competitive?

For example, it appears to me as a TJ parent that cheating is concentrated in the Asian (esp Indian) kids. I think they cheat because of pressure at home to put GPA above honesty and integrity. And because there are no real consequences. And I do not think it is okay. At all. Certainly not the get ahead at any cost philosophy of many parents. It's an anonymous board, so let's be honest. TJ has a cheating problem among Asian students. Your turn...

PP here. The simple answer is NO. Cheating is unacceptable. I'm an Indian parent (new to TJ) and we were not raised that way. I fail to understand why the school does nothing about it. I will support all measures upto and including expulsion.

To answer your questions:
1- I don't know. My kid is not in TJ yet. Will be next year.
2. Because no one seems to have the courage to do anything about it. All I can and will do is make sure my kid is not one of them and advocate for stricter punishment.
3. NO; Absolutely NOT.

My sanctimony was related to other points that somehow seem to be clouding this simple discussion:
- Indians cheat in all walks of life
- They review old questions
- Preaching to others about how to lead an ethical life
- Go to private school
- etc.

well if you were raised in US, yes, cheating is not a part of life. But if you were raised in India and immigrated on the H1B/F1/OPT/H4/L1 tide from 1990, then it seems cheating IS a part of Indian culture.

It has been dubbed the “Vyapam scam” after the acronym for an examination board in the state of Madhya Pradesh that has a lot to say about who gets government jobs and coveted slots in medical schools. The scam involves bribes paid by students to get the high marks needed for these slots. Some of this illicit money was channeled into political campaigns, or so it is suspected.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/opinion/dangerous-corruption-in-india.html

Whoever is this idiot, I suggest people stop responding to his/her posts. On top being bigoted, this person also showing a lack of intelligence to understand coorruption exists everywhere and especially within a population of a billion people there could be many millions that are dishonest, and then to appply that to an entire nationality is the height of stupidy or bigotry, or both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just make it in Chinese.

The largest portion of Asian kids at TJ are Indian. But congrats on the alt facts.

Plus, this seems designed to make it harder for the Asian test prep contingent, no?

they need to shut TJ. its benefits are only to a few and has become a huge cost. long overdue to stop the entire out of control TJ process.

Only thing out of control is the emotional IQ of people like you who cannot accept change. What kind of phobia shall we call it?

here is the thread you meant to be posting on - http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/639015.page

TJ has become an embarrassment. From hundreds of postings like above to the thousands of Indians that groom their kids from pre-kindergarten onward have warped the system. TJ should be closed and the money redistributed to local high schools. Let these crazy parents have their children go to private school, just like they would have if they lived in their own homeland.

Get your head out of the dark place wherre it is now, and look at the mirror closely, your racially tinged posts are an embarrssment. You can't compete, so you want to change the rules. Guess what, the world is changing and those who cannot adapt will beccome extinct. TJ or not, the ethnic group that you are directing your bigotry will get good scores in schools, will go to top universities, and become successful engineers, doctors, lawyers, CEO's, politicians, so on... stop hating and your life might become more pleasant.

PP: Three questions, before you get all sanctimonious. I'm assuming you are a TJ parent, since you see fit to lecture TJ parents:

1. The cheating in the school is well documented (90 substantiated episodes this year alone). This isn't prepping. This is TJ kids who have been admitted and attend cheating. Do you think this is more prevalent in one ethnic group? For example-- sophomore cheating ring-- almost entirely one ethic group.

2. Why do you think TJ kids have so many academic integrity violations? Again-- 90 in the first 3 quarters of this year. That's a huge number for a school of about 1700 kids.

3. Do you think the cheating is okay, because it makes these kids more competitive?

For example, it appears to me as a TJ parent that cheating is concentrated in the Asian (esp Indian) kids. I think they cheat because of pressure at home to put GPA above honesty and integrity. And because there are no real consequences. And I do not think it is okay. At all. Certainly not the get ahead at any cost philosophy of many parents. It's an anonymous board, so let's be honest. TJ has a cheating problem among Asian students. Your turn...

PP here. The simple answer is NO. Cheating is unacceptable. I'm an Indian parent (new to TJ) and we were not raised that way. I fail to understand why the school does nothing about it. I will support all measures upto and including expulsion.

To answer your questions:
1- I don't know. My kid is not in TJ yet. Will be next year.
2. Because no one seems to have the courage to do anything about it. All I can and will do is make sure my kid is not one of them and advocate for stricter punishment.
3. NO; Absolutely NOT.

My sanctimony was related to other points that somehow seem to be clouding this simple discussion:
- Indians cheat in all walks of life
- They review old questions
- Preaching to others about how to lead an ethical life
- Go to private school
- etc.

well if you were raised in US, yes, cheating is not a part of life. But if you were raised in India and immigrated on the H1B/F1/OPT/H4/L1 tide from 1990, then it seems cheating IS a part of Indian culture.

It has been dubbed the “Vyapam scam” after the acronym for an examination board in the state of Madhya Pradesh that has a lot to say about who gets government jobs and coveted slots in medical schools. The scam involves bribes paid by students to get the high marks needed for these slots. Some of this illicit money was channeled into political campaigns, or so it is suspected.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/13/opinion/dangerous-corruption-in-india.html

You need to brush up on them reasoning skills. Unless you can prove that every Indian who has come to the US was from that batch of students, you don't have a case.

If what you say is indeed true. You must have a bunch of idiots who don't know how to interview and figure out if someone has the skills or not!

Here are a couple more dumb statements: All Americans are idiots. (1) They don't know the difference between a real programmer and a fake one. (2) All you need to get a job in America is to pad your resume with
credentials and you'll get a job. You want proof? Look at http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/641100.page [Post New]05/11/2017 13:08

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP here. I don't think there is an ethnic basis to the cheating that happens, and I think there are various reasons that kids might cheat.

I do think that some parents appear to have a different definition of what constitutes cheating and/or plagiarism and so are confused and upset when their kids are accused. Some parents seem to think that if it is not written down that something is cheating, then it is okay.

It doesn't seem fair to give the school system another job that the parents should be doing, but it is possible that FCPS will need to start educating kids and their parents from kindergarten on as to what constitutes cheating. They need to start enforcing standards, even when parents say, "Oh, my child had no idea that this was considered cheating!" Kids and parents will start to learn more about what is considered cheating when they see consequences being enforced, with a system of more serious consequences with each successive infraction.

Specifically to TJ, what if they chose the One Book and One Question this year to motivate thoughtful discussions about cheating, what it is, and how and why it hurts the cheater and the people around him? Teens are capable of thinking deeply and independently and this is a good time in their lives for them to consider ethical and moral questions and start to make their own decisions about right and wrong.

+ 1.

I think figuring out a way to shame the cheaters would probably work great as well.

[Anonymous]

A student caught cheating should be instantly reassigned to their base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with a test that can't be prepped for. My kid did not prep, but we knew a lot of kids who did prep very extensively during middle school.

Not all, but many of those kids who prepped had to continue that "prep" mindset while they were at TJ. There were kids there who had to have tutors and outside help for a number of courses every year, plus they needed summer school and extra help for that each summer. Some kids privately took summer courses then took the same course during the school year in hopes of getting a better grade.

My kid and other friends of his who did not prep did not need all this outside help and managed to graduate with high GPAs and are at great schools now, most of them majoring in engineering, physics, math, and other STEM fields.

I would love to see what the school would be like if it were populated by kids who hadn't prepped and didn't need outside help to understand their course work.

I studied hard. I went to Harvard. DH studied hard. DH was just telling our son how many tests he had to prep for. the so called prep he did as a teenager does not compare to the amount of studying he did in mrs school. You are kidding yourself if you think your precious child will not be studying and prepping for tests. We are not ashamed of our hard efforts and hope our kids have the same work ethic.

[Anonymous]

*med school not mrs school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with a test that can't be prepped for. My kid did not prep, but we knew a lot of kids who did prep very extensively during middle school.

Not all, but many of those kids who prepped had to continue that "prep" mindset while they were at TJ. There were kids there who had to have tutors and outside help for a number of courses every year, plus they needed summer school and extra help for that each summer. Some kids privately took summer courses then took the same course during the school year in hopes of getting a better grade.

My kid and other friends of his who did not prep did not need all this outside help and managed to graduate with high GPAs and are at great schools now, most of them majoring in engineering, physics, math, and other STEM fields.

I would love to see what the school would be like if it were populated by kids who hadn't prepped and didn't need outside help to understand their course work.

I studied hard. I went to Harvard. DH studied hard. DH was just telling our son how many tests he had to prep for. the so called prep he did as a teenager does not compare to the amount of studying he did in mrs school. You are kidding yourself if you think your precious child will not be studying and prepping for tests. We are not ashamed of our hard efforts and hope our kids have the same work ethic.

Many people find this difficult to understand (or at least profess to be unable to understand it), but "prepping" for a test like the TJ test is different from studying for a test in a course. It does a kid no favors to prep to get accepted to a program that they can't handle.

TJ is a place for the brightest kids. Yes, they all need to study and work really hard, but that is different from needing to go home and work with a personal tutor almost every day. Kids that bright should not need constant tutoring and handholding with outside programs to succeed. Kids in programs that are overwhelming for them are more likely to be stressed out and more likely to be tempted to cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with a test that can't be prepped for. My kid did not prep, but we knew a lot of kids who did prep very extensively during middle school.

Not all, but many of those kids who prepped had to continue that "prep" mindset while they were at TJ. There were kids there who had to have tutors and outside help for a number of courses every year, plus they needed summer school and extra help for that each summer. Some kids privately took summer courses then took the same course during the school year in hopes of getting a better grade.

My kid and other friends of his who did not prep did not need all this outside help and managed to graduate with high GPAs and are at great schools now, most of them majoring in engineering, physics, math, and other STEM fields.

I would love to see what the school would be like if it were populated by kids who hadn't prepped and didn't need outside help to understand their course work.

I studied hard. I went to Harvard. DH studied hard. DH was just telling our son how many tests he had to prep for. the so called prep he did as a teenager does not compare to the amount of studying he did in mrs school. You are kidding yourself if you think your precious child will not be studying and prepping for tests. We are not ashamed of our hard efforts and hope our kids have the same work ethic.

Many people find this difficult to understand (or at least profess to be unable to understand it), but "prepping" for a test like the TJ test is different from studying for a test in a course. It does a kid no favors to prep to get accepted to a program that they can't handle.

TJ is a place for the brightest kids. Yes, they all need to study and work really hard, but that is different from needing to go home and work with a personal tutor almost every day. Kids that bright should not need constant tutoring and handholding with outside programs to succeed. Kids in programs that are overwhelming for them are more likely to be stressed out and more likely to be tempted to cheat.

Most kids admitted to TJ can handle the basic curriculam required to graduate. They do not need a tutor or weekend classes for this. Most TJ kids who do this are accelerating beyond what is needed, such as taking up as many AP / post-AP classes, so they prepare for it over summer or through additional classes. There are kids who are able to do this without any additional help, may be top 10%, and other kids want to catch up to these kids and the only way they can do it by working harder. It is not a bad thing to try and work harder to catch up to top 10% if you are not as naturally talented. They are still talented enough for basic TJ program.

[Anonymous]

Cheating at TJ should be immediate grounds for transfer to base with no ability to go back to TJ. Until the school really comes down hard, TJ is just a school name with many cheaters.

Once a cheater, always a cheater-applies to more that fidelity.

[Anonymous]

For most of its history, Fairfax County had no special magnet school and the schools were just fine. TJ needs to return to its original purpose as a neighborhood school for students living in Alexandria, Annandale and North Springfield. This would relieve overcrowding at other schools and help pyramids like Annandale that have seen their boundaries redrawn over the years to include all the multi-family housing that used to be zoned to both Jefferson and Annandale. There are too many obnoxious Asian supremacists at TJ who look down at everyone else, many of the students are egregious cheaters, and the school system as a whole would be better off without the test prep/AAP mania that TJ promotes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For most of its history, Fairfax County had no special magnet school and the schools were just fine. TJ needs to return to its original purpose as a neighborhood school for students living in Alexandria, Annandale and North Springfield. This would relieve overcrowding at other schools and help pyramids like Annandale that have seen their boundaries redrawn over the years to include all the multi-family housing that used to be zoned to both Jefferson and Annandale. There are too many obnoxious Asian supremacists at TJ who look down at everyone else, many of the students are egregious cheaters, and the school system as a whole would be better off without the test prep/AAP mania that TJ promotes.

Just a tad bit racist, no?