Do you ever worry that your child might not be "elite college material"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a statistic the other day that caused me to take notice. The top 50 colleges in the country combined have space for less than 1% of all US high school graduates (yes, this list includes University of Wisconsin and UMichigan). Access is reduced to less than 1% US grads when you also consider foreign students. These statistics are far more relevant than the "exclusivity" or selectively of a school as measured by percentage admits. What a luxury to look down our noses at schools like these when MOST on this planet can't even consider them as an option.

Fuck "most on this planet". US colleges do not exist for them. US colleges exist for Americans.

Go away Donald Trump. The mic is off.

[Anonymous]

My parents never made it out of the 10th grade. My mom was disabled most of my childhood and my dad was a laborer. None of my 9 aunts or uncles went to college - and only a couple of my 20 cousins did.

I went to a top 20 school from undergrad to PhD.

If I can't find a way to get my kids into a top 20 school with all the advantages they have over me (starting with a parent who knows something about college), I must have done something wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read a statistic the other day that caused me to take notice. The top 50 colleges in the country combined have space for less than 1% of all US high school graduates (yes, this list includes University of Wisconsin and UMichigan). Access is reduced to less than 1% US grads when you also consider foreign students. These statistics are far more relevant than the "exclusivity" or selectively of a school as measured by percentage admits. What a luxury to look down our noses at schools like these when MOST on this planet can't even consider them as an option.

Can we get a link for this? I have a BIL who INSISTS that only the top 20 schools are worth it, if you're "college-material" you'll go to one of these top schools, etc. and i'd love to be able to show him that.

[Anonymous]

My children are "best deal" material.
They will go to the best college which offers them the cheapest education.
Best meaning best educators in the field of their choice (not necessarily best research institution or best reputation).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read a statistic the other day that caused me to take notice. The top 50 colleges in the country combined have space for less than 1% of all US high school graduates (yes, this list includes University of Wisconsin and UMichigan). Access is reduced to less than 1% US grads when you also consider foreign students. These statistics are far more relevant than the "exclusivity" or selectively of a school as measured by percentage admits. What a luxury to look down our noses at schools like these when MOST on this planet can't even consider them as an option.

Can we get a link for this? I have a BIL who INSISTS that only the top 20 schools are worth it, if you're "college-material" you'll go to one of these top schools, etc. and i'd love to be able to show him that.

Alk you have to do is look up the size of the freshman classes at the top 20 (however you want to define that) and compare that total to the number of HS graduates. Those stats aren't hard to find, if you are "college material" . Your BIL doesn't seem to have learned much about statistics it logical thinking at his top 20 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally white collar workers go to college and blue collar workers don't. There are some exceptions but it's often true. Also, white collar and blue collar people live in different neighborhoods, kids go to different schools and as a result they don't socialize together that much. It's not that surprising I wouldn't have friends without college degrees. I have a few family members who married "down" or just couldn't hack college.

Huh. My husband and I are both bookish, white-collar people with advanced degrees from good schools, but we also each have a sibling who didn't finish college and now works in a blue-collar job. For some people these worlds mix.

Similarly - I'm an ivy league grad with PH.D. and I have a brother who is a bartender. My spouse with a JD from an elite university has a brother who never finished college. Also my mother only did 2 years of college before dropping out to work and get married. And I have quite a few cousins who didn't go to college or else never finished their degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents never made it out of the 10th grade. My mom was disabled most of my childhood and my dad was a laborer. None of my 9 aunts or uncles went to college - and only a couple of my 20 cousins did.

I went to a top 20 school from undergrad to PhD.

If I can't find a way to get my kids into a top 20 school with all the advantages they have over me (starting with a parent who knows something about college), I must have done something wrong.

Maybe, maybe not. On the one hand, some elite schools are focused on attracting candidates like you (were) -- they want to change lives and, to do so, they admit kids who are first generation college, come from disadvantaged backgrounds, didn't have access to excellent schools throughout childhood, etc. Your kids aren't that kind of applicant. And they may or may not be one of the other kinds of candidates elite schools are looking for (athletes, potential major donor (or even full pay), national award winner, student from an underrepresented group/state/country). Second-gen legacy is a weird place to be -- kind of betwixt and between.

On another level, your kids aren't you. They may or may not be as bright, as motivated, as resourceful as you were at their age. Some of that's genetic lottery, some of that's environment. I guess you could put environment in the something you've done wrong category, but it's arguably the price of upward mobility. I grew up lower middle class, got into an elite college, did well there, and, as a result, am raising an upper middle class kid. I've worked hard to blunt some of the UMC characteristics I find most problematic (sense of entitlement, pressure to conform) but some things come with the territory (so many demands/imperatives/opportunities = very little time/need for independent exploration of interests; batshit crazy definitions of what constitutes success).

So yeah, through little or no fault of your (or their) own, your kids may not end up at "top 20" schools. The good news is that even though those schools were crucial to your success (and mine) -- they won't be to our kids'. They are already on a different path with different resources. Top colleges matter a helluva lot more for kids who are have no other advantages. And, even then, "top" isn't limited to a list of 20 highly selective undergrad programs. To put this all more succintly, my point is it'd be really counterproductive to treat securing your childrens' acceptance at such colleges as your mission or as a standard for evaluating your success or failure as a parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My children are "best deal" material.
They will go to the best college which offers them the cheapest education.
Best meaning best educators in the field of their choice (not necessarily best research institution or best reputation).

Yes, mine are of the "Best Bang for our Buck" variety, too.

I have not, nor will I, ever waste a minute of my time worrying about "elite college material" status. haha.

[Anonymous]

Top 20 school as defined by whom? Seriously, is there a definitive list all the top 20 schools and if so, could someone please post a link? Are you looking at USN&WR, Forbes, or what? Also, what is the barometer for being Top 20, is it employable graduates, selectivity, graduate salaries, amount of financial aid provided, best living experience, research credentials of faculty, student to faculty ratio, etc...

Or is it just selectivity?
Genuinely curious.
Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents never made it out of the 10th grade. My mom was disabled most of my childhood and my dad was a laborer. None of my 9 aunts or uncles went to college - and only a couple of my 20 cousins did.

I went to a top 20 school from undergrad to PhD.

If I can't find a way to get my kids into a top 20 school with all the advantages they have over me (starting with a parent who knows something about college), I must have done something wrong.

Maybe, maybe not. On the one hand, some elite schools are focused on attracting candidates like you (were) -- they want to change lives and, to do so, they admit kids who are first generation college, come from disadvantaged backgrounds, didn't have access to excellent schools throughout childhood, etc. Your kids aren't that kind of applicant. And they may or may not be one of the other kinds of candidates elite schools are looking for (athletes, potential major donor (or even full pay), national award winner, student from an underrepresented group/state/country). Second-gen legacy is a weird place to be -- kind of betwixt and between.

On another level, your kids aren't you. They may or may not be as bright, as motivated, as resourceful as you were at their age. Some of that's genetic lottery, some of that's environment. I guess you could put environment in the something you've done wrong category, but it's arguably the price of upward mobility. I grew up lower middle class, got into an elite college, did well there, and, as a result, am raising an upper middle class kid. I've worked hard to blunt some of the UMC characteristics I find most problematic (sense of entitlement, pressure to conform) but some things come with the territory (so many demands/imperatives/opportunities = very little time/need for independent exploration of interests; batshit crazy definitions of what constitutes success).

So yeah, through little or no fault of your (or their) own, your kids may not end up at "top 20" schools. The good news is that even though those schools were crucial to your success (and mine) -- they won't be to our kids'. They are already on a different path with different resources. Top colleges matter a helluva lot more for kids who are have no other advantages. And, even then, "top" isn't limited to a list of 20 highly selective undergrad programs. To put this all more succintly, my point is it'd be really counterproductive to treat securing your childrens' acceptance at such colleges as your mission or as a standard for evaluating your success or failure as a parent.

Great post PP. I think a lot about how different the stable, privileged environment my kids have grown up in is from my military family upbringing. There are disadvantages along with the positives, but I do feel like they have a lot more room for error.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I will be seriously disappointed if DS (now 12) is not accepted to a top 25 school. Or a top 10 school for his major, which is looking like it could be engineering. The very best engineering schools don't overlap neatly with absolute top 25.

I will love him just the same if he winds up at U. Wisconsin though. And he will have a nice life if that happens. But it's not wrong to strive for better.

U of Wisconsin isn't that easy to get into either you know.

It is for a certain profile. It's where the disappointed Sidwell parents send their mid-pack, affluent white kids with no hook, for example.

Can't speak for every last Sidwell parent, but most of us are not fixated on the Ivy league they way DCUM seems to portray us. Speaking for myself my son is applying to a wide range of schools and I would be happy with any of them. I sent him to Sidwell so he would get reinforcement for becoming a caring human being and be well prepared for college. He is. I am happy.

[Anonymous]

Worry? I hope and pray DC will be perfectly content with a local 2nd tier school and stays in the area

[Anonymous]

My parents never made it out of the 10th grade. My mom was disabled most of my childhood and my dad was a laborer. None of my 9 aunts or uncles went to college - and only a couple of my 20 cousins did.

I went to a top 20 school from undergrad to PhD.

If I can't find a way to get my kids into a top 20 school with all the advantages they have over me (starting with a parent who knows something about college), I must have done something wrong.

Wake up and start doing some research. The times have changed things are a lot more competitive now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally white collar workers go to college and blue collar workers don't. There are some exceptions but it's often true. Also, white collar and blue collar people live in different neighborhoods, kids go to different schools and as a result they don't socialize together that much. It's not that surprising I wouldn't have friends without college degrees. I have a few family members who married "down" or just couldn't hack college.

Huh. My husband and I are both bookish, white-collar people with advanced degrees from good schools, but we also each have a sibling who didn't finish college and now works in a blue-collar job. For some people these worlds mix.

Similarly - I'm an ivy league grad with PH.D. and I have a brother who is a bartender. My spouse with a JD from an elite university has a brother who never finished college. Also my mother only did 2 years of college before dropping out to work and get married. And I have quite a few cousins who didn't go to college or else never finished their degrees.

LOL at the cretins who went to "good schools" but failed to comprehend the bolded sections.

Whenever someone makes a general statement, you can always rely on the aspies to trot out their personal exceptions as if it means anything.

When a general statement is unsupported by any evidence and appears to be a universalization of the poster's own experience, it's not surprising that other posters respond with their own different experiences. What's shocking (on a number of levels) is that they get called "cretins" and "aspies" in response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would prefer they go to highly selective colleges, but I realize how hard they are to get into and even if my DC are getting excellent grades it may not happen. I also don't tell them. They will apply to 2-3 reaches (top 10-20), 2-3 mid level and 2-3 safeties. I want them to be equally excited about the safeties. Also, if they do get into a top private I don't know how we will pay for it.

Why would you let them even apply if you can't afford it?

Why shut doors before you even know what the options are? Sad.