Seeking opinions on an incident involving another family member disciplining my child

[Anonymous]

Yeah I guess I wouldn't care if you were so offended my child climbed on your sofa and I did nothing about it. Move fast and break things. I believe childhood is to be creative and explore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I certainly wouldn't care if my child was climbing on someone's sofa. Who are you people that you think your crappy furniture is so precious?

I would be afraid that my child would fall on the coffee table or side table if I let him stand on the armrest of the couch. I am so surprised that you, or any parent, is okay with that especially for a four-year-old and in someone else's home.

My mother is right - we are the most ridiculous and rudest generation of parents to have ever lived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think this says everything about the people responding that she had it coming. You're picturing yourself as the BIL and thinking, "well, she must be a little brat for him to have gotten so angry." I grew up with a father with a very short fuse. If you saw him in action, you would think that often his reactions to normal inconveniences were completely out of proportion and at times inappropriate. Please don't assume that every parent's reaction is going to be like yours. This sounds like OP encountered another parent who didn't just have a different parenting style, but who is just not in control of his emotions when dealing with a small child. OP, I think you did the right thing to accept his apology and stay and I might even stay again. But you need to make clear with him and your sister that, while you're fine with them correcting your children when they are misbehaving, you are not fine with them getting physical with them when they are angry.

Blame-the-victim type stuff. Like, 'she must have been out late' or 'she must have been dressed too sexily'

When you equate OP's situation to this, you really trivialize sexual assault. Please stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that everyone here responding would insist that their children use their words when confronting a peer, so why is it that so many of you are just fine with the BIL angrily grabbing at a four year old girl's legs to the point that she is in tears? He didn't say, "please don't stand on the couch" or "get off the couch" or even "get off the damn couch." He said "No, no!" and then grabbed her. Do all your kids hop to attention the instant you say "no!" and do exactly what you're asking them to read your mind about? Or are they lost in their own thoughts doing their own thing and it takes them a second to process? I'm guessing the latter. That's normal four YO behavior. Even when doing something that upon reflection they should know not to do.

If he had unemotionally picked her up and set her down, that's no problem. But getting worked up about a four year old on the arm of your sofa and then grabbing at her when she's clearly scared of you and trying to get away is completely unacceptable.

The fact that he CAME AND APOLOGIZED should tell everyone what they need to know about this interaction. He was clearly in the wrong or he wouldn't have done so.

This man is clearly not in control of his temper. I feel sorry for his kids.

If my 4 year old was standing on someone's couch, I would be fine if someone removed him. He absolutely knows that isn't the right way to act, so he doesn't get warnings to comply.

I'm the first PP here. And so would I. Except after removing her, he was angrily grabbing at her. That I would NOT be fine with.

You are assuming that the child politely and compliantly stepped off the sofa arm and was obediently sitting down when BIL angrily grabbed her by the legs and started pulling her off the sofa.

I mean, come on.

Have you ever seen a kid standing on a high piece of furniture that they are not supposed to stand on, like a sofa arm or a table? They don't compliantly and safely get down whem corrected, unless the adult manually removes them. The dismount usually involves some sort of running, hopping, jumping or other equally inappropriate or dangerous behavior.

The image I have is of the girl defiantly ignoring the initial "No" and then as BIL moves towards her to manually remove her from the dangerous situation she jumps off the arm onto the couch cushions with a series of hopping runs away from him, followed by a belly flop. BIL ended up grabbing her legs vs torso in the process of trying to catch her to remove her from the couch. That is the only scenario that makes sense. I bet if BIL posted here his version would echo what I am envisioning.

(I posted earlier about having a lot of boys. Been there, done that with removing young kids from climbing/jumping on things that they shouldn't and what I described is typical of what usually happens when a kid is doing something like what OP described. There is no way on the planet that OPs daughter just obediently got off the arm and sat down to be grabbed by the legs by BIL. Couches are bouncy and fun. OPs daughter was running/jumping/bounding away across the cushions and she only witnessed the very tail end af the aftermath

Because you're again envisioning yourself and your reactions as if you were the BIL. This guy was clearly out of control. If a four year old didn't listen to you, hippity hop bounced all over your sofa as you tried to grab them as you're describing, would you then turn around and scream in your BIL's face? No. You wouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I certainly wouldn't care if my child was climbing on someone's sofa. Who are you people that you think your crappy furniture is so precious?

Keep your kid at home then. (I seriously hope you're being sarcastic)

[Anonymous]

If she is hysterically crying over that then it shows she is not used to being told no and likely is allowed to do whatever she wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I guess I wouldn't care if you were so offended my child climbed on your sofa and I did nothing about it. Move fast and break things. I believe childhood is to be creative and explore.

Omg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that everyone here responding would insist that their children use their words when confronting a peer, so why is it that so many of you are just fine with the BIL angrily grabbing at a four year old girl's legs to the point that she is in tears? He didn't say, "please don't stand on the couch" or "get off the couch" or even "get off the damn couch." He said "No, no!" and then grabbed her. Do all your kids hop to attention the instant you say "no!" and do exactly what you're asking them to read your mind about? Or are they lost in their own thoughts doing their own thing and it takes them a second to process? I'm guessing the latter. That's normal four YO behavior. Even when doing something that upon reflection they should know not to do.

If he had unemotionally picked her up and set her down, that's no problem. But getting worked up about a four year old on the arm of your sofa and then grabbing at her when she's clearly scared of you and trying to get away is completely unacceptable.

The fact that he CAME AND APOLOGIZED should tell everyone what they need to know about this interaction. He was clearly in the wrong or he wouldn't have done so.

This man is clearly not in control of his temper. I feel sorry for his kids.

I would bet he apologized because they were packing up to leave. Drama all around.

If you read the OP it sounds like he didn't even know they were packing up. Just that they had retreated to the guest room because he had reduced two children to tears and screamed in his BIL's face.

OP here. That's right; he came right up to the room a few moments later and apologized. So it wasn't at my SIL's prompting (she wasn't home). And no, he didn't know we were packing; just that we had gone to the room. And we really weren't packing--I shouldn't have said that earlier. We were just discussing packing up and leaving. Although packing up would have meant just putting the bags in the car, because basically everything was still in the bags.

Anyway, I guess I did come here because I was hoping for support, for validation that what my BIL did was wrong. I get it that many of you don't seem to agree.

OP, I'm sorry. These people are nuts. I posted a minute ago about my father and I totally understand how this whole incident could have gone down. This post has zero to do with whether she was doing something she shouldn't because it really doesn't even have that much to do with the fact that he tried discipline your kid. Correcting someone else's child who is misbehaving in your home is fine. Your BIL just has a temper and he lashed out in a totally inappropriate way. But his apology indicates that he knows it.

PP, I understand what you're talking about, because I have family with short fuses. But I want to point out that BIL screamed at OP's DH, not the child. Not the same thing.

Yes, I'm well aware of that because, unlike so many other posters, I have actually read the OP's posts. The fact that he screamed in DH's face just shows you how worked up and angry he was. He was not in control of his emotions. Have you ever had someone who was three times your size trying to angrily grab at you like that as he stood over you? It's probably pretty freaking terrifying for a four year old.

[Anonymous]

Not being sarcastic at all. I'm honestly surprised people here are so uptight about kids on furniture. I've got bigger fish to fry with mine.

[Anonymous]

Team OP. BIL obviously has temper issues or he wouldn't have apologized. And why did SIL apologize for an incident she wasn't even home for unless she knew about his temper issues and, upon hearing HER OWN DH's version, knew that HE'D been the one who overstepped?

OP, to address your question, whether or not to stay there in future depends on how candidly you and they can talk about what happened and how to handle similar situations. I do agree with some of those on team BIL that your kids picked up on your response and it intensified their reaction, so you'd also need to be able to turn that down if something happens--like, stay in the room and comfort your kid with BIL there so's not to send the message that he is a monster. It may not be worth it to you to do that work, in which case--hotel.

[Anonymous]

I call troll.

OP, why do you keep calling you sis your SIL? Not once, but many times..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that everyone here responding would insist that their children use their words when confronting a peer, so why is it that so many of you are just fine with the BIL angrily grabbing at a four year old girl's legs to the point that she is in tears? He didn't say, "please don't stand on the couch" or "get off the couch" or even "get off the damn couch." He said "No, no!" and then grabbed her. Do all your kids hop to attention the instant you say "no!" and do exactly what you're asking them to read your mind about? Or are they lost in their own thoughts doing their own thing and it takes them a second to process? I'm guessing the latter. That's normal four YO behavior. Even when doing something that upon reflection they should know not to do.

If he had unemotionally picked her up and set her down, that's no problem. But getting worked up about a four year old on the arm of your sofa and then grabbing at her when she's clearly scared of you and trying to get away is completely unacceptable.

The fact that he CAME AND APOLOGIZED should tell everyone what they need to know about this interaction. He was clearly in the wrong or he wouldn't have done so.

This man is clearly not in control of his temper. I feel sorry for his kids.

I would bet he apologized because they were packing up to leave. Drama all around.

If you read the OP it sounds like he didn't even know they were packing up. Just that they had retreated to the guest room because he had reduced two children to tears and screamed in his BIL's face.

OP here. That's right; he came right up to the room a few moments later and apologized. So it wasn't at my SIL's prompting (she wasn't home). And no, he didn't know we were packing; just that we had gone to the room. And we really weren't packing--I shouldn't have said that earlier. We were just discussing packing up and leaving. Although packing up would have meant just putting the bags in the car, because basically everything was still in the bags.

Anyway, I guess I did come here because I was hoping for support, for validation that what my BIL did was wrong. I get it that many of you don't seem to agree.

OP, I'm sorry. These people are nuts. I posted a minute ago about my father and I totally understand how this whole incident could have gone down. This post has zero to do with whether she was doing something she shouldn't because it really doesn't even have that much to do with the fact that he tried discipline your kid. Correcting someone else's child who is misbehaving in your home is fine. Your BIL just has a temper and he lashed out in a totally inappropriate way. But his apology indicates that he knows it.

PP, I understand what you're talking about, because I have family with short fuses. But I want to point out that BIL screamed at OP's DH, not the child. Not the same thing.

Not that PP, but who screams at other adults over simple kid issues like this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I certainly wouldn't care if my child was climbing on someone's sofa. Who are you people that you think your crappy furniture is so precious?

Thank god you and I are not friends. That kind of attitude is disrespectful

[Anonymous]

OP, since you obviously know your BIL runs a tight ship in his household, you should've explained "rules of engagement" prior to your trip there. Like, don't stand on the arm rest. Don't jump on the couch. Eat with your mouth closed, etc. It is up to you if you want to stay in their house again. Alternatively, rent a hotel room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I assume that everyone here responding would insist that their children use their words when confronting a peer, so why is it that so many of you are just fine with the BIL angrily grabbing at a four year old girl's legs to the point that she is in tears? He didn't say, "please don't stand on the couch" or "get off the couch" or even "get off the damn couch." He said "No, no!" and then grabbed her. Do all your kids hop to attention the instant you say "no!" and do exactly what you're asking them to read your mind about? Or are they lost in their own thoughts doing their own thing and it takes them a second to process? I'm guessing the latter. That's normal four YO behavior. Even when doing something that upon reflection they should know not to do.

If he had unemotionally picked her up and set her down, that's no problem. But getting worked up about a four year old on the arm of your sofa and then grabbing at her when she's clearly scared of you and trying to get away is completely unacceptable.

The fact that he CAME AND APOLOGIZED should tell everyone what they need to know about this interaction. He was clearly in the wrong or he wouldn't have done so.

This man is clearly not in control of his temper. I feel sorry for his kids.

If my 4 year old was standing on someone's couch, I would be fine if someone removed him. He absolutely knows that isn't the right way to act, so he doesn't get warnings to comply.

I'm the first PP here. And so would I. Except after removing her, he was angrily grabbing at her. That I would NOT be fine with.

You are assuming that the child politely and compliantly stepped off the sofa arm and was obediently sitting down when BIL angrily grabbed her by the legs and started pulling her off the sofa.

I mean, come on.

Have you ever seen a kid standing on a high piece of furniture that they are not supposed to stand on, like a sofa arm or a table? They don't compliantly and safely get down whem corrected, unless the adult manually removes them. The dismount usually involves some sort of running, hopping, jumping or other equally inappropriate or dangerous behavior.

The image I have is of the girl defiantly ignoring the initial "No" and then as BIL moves towards her to manually remove her from the dangerous situation she jumps off the arm onto the couch cushions with a series of hopping runs away from him, followed by a belly flop. BIL ended up grabbing her legs vs torso in the process of trying to catch her to remove her from the couch. That is the only scenario that makes sense. I bet if BIL posted here his version would echo what I am envisioning.

(I posted earlier about having a lot of boys. Been there, done that with removing young kids from climbing/jumping on things that they shouldn't and what I described is typical of what usually happens when a kid is doing something like what OP described. There is no way on the planet that OPs daughter just obediently got off the arm and sat down to be grabbed by the legs by BIL. Couches are bouncy and fun. OPs daughter was running/jumping/bounding away across the cushions and she only witnessed the very tail end af the aftermath

Because you're again envisioning yourself and your reactions as if you were the BIL. This guy was clearly out of control. If a four year old didn't listen to you, hippity hop bounced all over your sofa as you tried to grab them as you're describing, would you then turn around and scream in your BIL's face? No. You wouldn't.

I don't think he was out of control and I think OPs story is only a small part of what actually happened.

It is half the story. Filtered by her perception of how she feels kids should or should not be corrected. By someone who by her own words did mot even see what happened, just the aftermath.