One person wants a prenup and the other does not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

When two people with a substantial difference in assets or income get married a pre-nup is not just advisable but it is insanity not to have one. This is even more so if there are children from a prior marriage or a business or a major inheritance.

Perhaps, but the issue here is not protecting any significant premarital assets or children from a prior marriage OR about finding an equitable solution that protects both parties in the event of a divorce. The issue is that the OP's fiancé has proposed a prenup that does not meet the standards of fairness--and to boot he claims that this is the basis of a 'healthy' divorce.' In fact, prenups can be disputed in court--if they don't meed a standard of substantive fairness, they can be dismissed. . I would have no issues with a prenup that protects premarital assets, but here, the fiancé wants to stipulate that any money he makes from his career is off limits--even if she spends much of her time working to support that career in a wide variety of ways. that he expects to start a business during the marriage--an anedavor that requires support of both parties (financial, time, sacrifice) but wants to restrict any success to himself is bothersome. The other HUGE red flag is that he seems wholly unconcerned with her financial stability and well being --she doesn't have enough $ to save for retirement, which she absolutely should be doing. As a contrast, when I met my husband, he was not saving much for retirement--which worried me. We reworked our budget so I saved less than I was and he saved more--he's older and will need it sooner. Perhaps she is a bad manager of money, perhaps she is in a low paying field, but there is not a single indication that he views marriage as a partnership of mutual support.

OP, one of the questions I have is what has been the situation so far?

--How do you split expenses now? Do you live together? if you take a trip, how do you split expenses?
--before he agreed to a joint account, how did he want to handle things? by proportion of income? What happens if you disagree over the necessity or desirability of a purchase? what expenses would you/he consider joint? childcare? groceries? etc?
--what is your current income versus his? what are your income prospects vs his?
--how does he expect to get the capital to start a business?


I think the only way that OP could enter this marriage without extreme risk is if she had similar income/assets to her fiancé. But he's arranging things so that he takes NO risk and she eats it all. If he views marriage with her as such a risky prospect, I question his commitment

[phone]

[Anonymous]

Pp here. My fiance asked me if I would be willing to sign a prenup. There are preexisting assets and business in our case. I said yes, not a problem. He never brought it up again, and we never signed one.

Maybe he is just testing and there won't actually be one. Do you think he will actually go to the effort to create one?

If so, if this is not just a theoretical thing, and he will go through with it, that is not the greatest sign.

Furthermore. If he, as you mentioned, would not be likely to compromise, then the terms he suggests are very revealing of how much he "loves" you and trusts you.

Love trusts all, protects all..... Hmmmm

[Anonymous]

He wants a prostitute

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He wants a prostitute

And a housekeeper, cook, and a nanny, all willing to work for free. Or for the honor of being married to him without any of marriage's typical protections.

On the plus side, at least he is "willing" to have kids with you, you must at least be somewhat attractive. BONUS!

Now just consider what any childrens' future would be like under the terms of this pre-nup. They will be poor, if you even have custody, and you will be on welfare. How much would you love him then? That's your answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He wants a prostitute

A prostitute gets paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP--are you from outside America? I re-read your posts and picked up on some syntax that didn't necessarily sound like someone who is a native English speaker. I'm wondering if you are feeling pressured by family to get married or not feeling empowered to stand up for yourself. As others have noted, it is rare to get such consensus on 7 pages of a DCUM thread. Marriage is a contract into which you not want enter with this man, whether or not you have a pre-nup.

Or she is from a poor background and he is not. Poor grammar does not necessarily mean foreign. But there is some sort of exacerbating background difference, you are right. She mentioned that she has no family or support network nearby. So basically completely at his mercy, whether she is American or not, it is clear he does not consider her his equal in any measure.

This is so sad, one of the worst threads I have read on here. Not going to read this one anymore.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is his parents' marriage like. I know a few people who insisted on a prenup and did not own their own business. All came from unhappy homes whether it was cheating, volitile divorce, or just a lot of unhappiness. A couple ended up doing away with the prenup when their significant other said no marriage with one, 2 are in bad marriages but there were problems before the marriage (with respect, money, and cheating) and one is very happily
Married with a pre nup.

It's hard to say what you should do without knowing more details. Does he not trust you with money? Does he want to keep all things separate? Is he controlling in other ways?

OP here. His parents were happy, no prenup. My parents ended in divorce. I am not a spender, at all! I'm beyond cheap. He wants separate accounts but agreed upon a separate account and then one joint account. It just doesn't feel like a marriage out of love, to me. This is about business and numbers it seems like.

Pp here. Honestly, I think this is going to be a battle your whole marriage. What if you lose your job? Will you have to pay him back for the time you aren't earning? What about if you stay at home for a bit? Would he support you going back to school to further your career? Etc. have you asked him why he thinks the way he does regarding finances? Finally, before you throw in the towel, I suggest pre marital counseling. I suspect you may be the couple who benefits from going through potential future scenarios and seeing if you are on the same page.

OP here. He said he will support me staying home but then the percentage I get from the house, would be reduced because I'm providing. He wants to do this because statics show that helps a healthy divorce and the biggest problem with marriage and divorce, is finances. We will be going to counseling, thanks for the advice

This is a big red flag. Your fiancé is telling you that he only values monetary contributions to the marriage -- not non-monetary contributions like time spent at home with kids, time spent administering the household, etc. He also does not see you as equal partners -- rather you are business partners according to percentage of financial contribution to the relationship only.

If you are fine with that interpretation of marriage and family, then go ahead and sign a prenup.

FWIW, that's not my view of my worth or how men and women should be valued as partners.

You may love him, but do not delude yourself that you can "discuss" this and come to some compromise. This is a fundamental worldview that is likely to be a lifelong issue in your relationship. Love and marriage are two different things. I have loved lots of people in my life, but not all of them would I have married -- for that I need to not only have love, but also be a good match on a wide number of relationship, financial and family issues. Throw this fish back pronto.

[Anonymous]

OP,

What is his ethnicity? Is he an American? Are you?

I've posted before on this thread. Like the other posters, RUN from this guy. He DOES NOT LOVE YOU. Don't care if you think you love him or not, he will use you and dump you. You will find someone much better than him (it won't be hard, since he is such a conceited jerk.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think OP is considering marrying him because she is in her 30's and can hear her biological clock ticking. Totally understandable. However, I think she is better off going to a sperm bank and being a single mother than marrying this guy.

OP should not agree to a prenup based on unfavorable terms but she should have a child as a single mother through a sperm bank and then look to support herself as a single mother?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP is considering marrying him because she is in her 30's and can hear her biological clock ticking. Totally understandable. However, I think she is better off going to a sperm bank and being a single mother than marrying this guy.

OP should not agree to a prenup based on unfavorable terms but she should have a child as a single mother through a sperm bank and then look to support herself as a single mother?

Absolutely. Better to be single than to live with someone who doesn't care about your well-being. And better to have no father than to have a father who teaches those lessons about love, partnership, generosity, and money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP is considering marrying him because she is in her 30's and can hear her biological clock ticking. Totally understandable. However, I think she is better off going to a sperm bank and being a single mother than marrying this guy.

OP should not agree to a prenup based on unfavorable terms but she should have a child as a single mother through a sperm bank and then look to support herself as a single mother?

Absolutely. Better to be single than to live with someone who doesn't care about your well-being. And better to have no father than to have a father who teaches those lessons about love, partnership, generosity, and money.

You do realize that this forum is strewn with broken marriages, troubled relationships. failed partnerships and people who obsess about money and status? The very fact that half the marriages in this country end in divorce should give you pause as you try and paint this idyllic scenario of what marriage should be like. I'd venture to say that not all of the fathers and mothers who are divorced are failures as parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP is considering marrying him because she is in her 30's and can hear her biological clock ticking. Totally understandable. However, I think she is better off going to a sperm bank and being a single mother than marrying this guy.

OP should not agree to a prenup based on unfavorable terms but she should have a child as a single mother through a sperm bank and then look to support herself as a single mother?

No. Clearly you missed the point. This jerk would leave her in such dire straits that a poster said they would rather see her be a straight up single mom from the beginning, BC she would be in a stronger position than after she gives up more time and energy from her already disadvantaged position and poor earning potential to invest in having children with this guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP is considering marrying him because she is in her 30's and can hear her biological clock ticking. Totally understandable. However, I think she is better off going to a sperm bank and being a single mother than marrying this guy.

OP should not agree to a prenup based on unfavorable terms but she should have a child as a single mother through a sperm bank and then look to support herself as a single mother?

No. Clearly you missed the point. This jerk would leave her in such dire straits that a poster said they would rather see her be a straight up single mom from the beginning, BC she would be in a stronger position than after she gives up more time and energy from her already disadvantaged position and poor earning potential to invest in having children with this guy.

Ie, she would be on her own two feet from the beginning, eligible for social services, vs having him pull the rug out from under her when she has stopped her lackluster career or job.

[Anonymous]

If money matters that much to him, he is just using her til he meets a wealthy woman with assets AND earning potential. Period. I doubt he intends to marry this one at all. And he has a good chance of succeeding, since there is so much wealth here.

OP, if you are truly engaged, how much did he spend on your ring? Someone who cares about that much about money gets their fiancee a min 15k ring, and usually much more. Starters at Tiffany with a half decent setting and diamond run in the high teens and low 20's.

Or are you just living together, an idea I am guessing he did not suggest? Was it your idea? You don't have to tell us, it seems pretty clear. Could be totally off base here, but that is my guess. I bet you moved in with him, and are clinging to this relationship like your life depends on it.

Op, this is his way of starting to break up with you.

Best of luck.