DD 15 just won’t listen to reason!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

Someone certainly has a high opinion of herself. Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

What is haughty about saying, okay, you are an atheist, so at least be an educated, historically literate atheist with a basic understanding of how Christianity shaped our modern western society, literature, arts, science, medicine, architecture, social services, universal education, civil rights, western intellectual inquiry and the concept of freedom and individual rights.

That's not what you said at all. You said a non-Christian is not able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal "puplic education", public works, civil rights, the anti-slavery movement, or much of the US hospital system. This is a slanderous lie. And it's bigoted (it's certainly antisemitic for one).

+1
I think a lot of this stuff is just White supremacy, nationalism, and colonialism disguised by representing it as Christianity, religions don’t do things, people do, since they cant open about those beliefs, sorry not sorry. And of course there’s probably an anti-non Christian element too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you lose is sleep. Afternoon services would be an easier sell to teens.

And that is a reasonable pushback with a reasonable solution.

Catholic churches and most evangelical mega churches have late morning and evening options.

If they are at one of the mainstream protestant churches that tend to be smaller due to falling membership, then the lack of worship times is likely exasperating the issue. In this case, the response to your statement that the drawback is losing sleep, the answer is that it is our job as parents to install behaviors in you that teach you discipline and self sacrifice, particularly for your family, whether you are an atheist or a nun or anything in between. Our family routine of attending Sunday services is how we choose to instill that value in you, so as a member of our family, you will attend

There are many ways to approach this argument with a budding atheist that are seeped in 9th grade logic and which do not include picking up a teenager and throwing her in the car.

Heck, 1 hour of Scripture study each week would likely be better than what is happening now. There are some great apps, such as Bible in a Year that you could study with her.

Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

You need to get up early to go to services because it will teach you discipline and self-sacrifice. Way to make church sound appealing. Kinda like boot camp.

[Anonymous]

It will just make her hate church and atheist harder OP.

[Anonymous]

rage bait troll post

why are you feeding this nonsense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you lose is sleep. Afternoon services would be an easier sell to teens.

And that is a reasonable pushback with a reasonable solution.

Catholic churches and most evangelical mega churches have late morning and evening options.

If they are at one of the mainstream protestant churches that tend to be smaller due to falling membership, then the lack of worship times is likely exasperating the issue. In this case, the response to your statement that the drawback is losing sleep, the answer is that it is our job as parents to install behaviors in you that teach you discipline and self sacrifice, particularly for your family, whether you are an atheist or a nun or anything in between. Our family routine of attending Sunday services is how we choose to instill that value in you, so as a member of our family, you will attend

There are many ways to approach this argument with a budding atheist that are seeped in 9th grade logic and which do not include picking up a teenager and throwing her in the car.

Heck, 1 hour of Scripture study each week would likely be better than what is happening now. There are some great apps, such as Bible in a Year that you could study with her.

Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

I am the poster who started with “Wow” above. I think that telling a kid who is concerned about discrimination and bigotry within the larger community that people of other faith traditions who don’t attend Christian churches are “completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.” Is not going to help her see Christianity as something she wants to associate herself with.

If OP’s goal is to drive her kid away from both family and Christianity (which it might be) this is surefire way to do that.

Yes, if you are living in a western society, where most societal structures, government foundations, social service safety nets, civil rights advancements, institutions, literature, arts, and education structures were rooted in Judeo Christian values, beliefs and philosophies, and you have no knowlege or understanding of this Bible or Christian philosophy, history, values and the words as written text, then yes, you are all those things, not the least of which is woefully under educated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you lose is sleep. Afternoon services would be an easier sell to teens.

And that is a reasonable pushback with a reasonable solution.

Catholic churches and most evangelical mega churches have late morning and evening options.

If they are at one of the mainstream protestant churches that tend to be smaller due to falling membership, then the lack of worship times is likely exasperating the issue. In this case, the response to your statement that the drawback is losing sleep, the answer is that it is our job as parents to install behaviors in you that teach you discipline and self sacrifice, particularly for your family, whether you are an atheist or a nun or anything in between. Our family routine of attending Sunday services is how we choose to instill that value in you, so as a member of our family, you will attend

There are many ways to approach this argument with a budding atheist that are seeped in 9th grade logic and which do not include picking up a teenager and throwing her in the car.

Heck, 1 hour of Scripture study each week would likely be better than what is happening now. There are some great apps, such as Bible in a Year that you could study with her.

Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

lol what? You think you have to be Christian to understand the anti-slavery movement and the judicial system? All of this is taught in secular school…

It’s not that deep, and you can take any of these classes in high school history / government. I am an atheist and I don’t think I am “enlightened” - I just was not raised with religion. when I look around and see all these horrible things happening in the world (childhood cancer, car accidents) and the religious answer is that we have free will and God gives us what we can handle or God has a plan, I have a hard time buying it. I do understand the urge to believe in something greater to help comfort but I frankly just don’t buy it.

You didn't read.

Not once did I say you must be Christian to understand those things.

I said quite clearly that even as an atheist, if you have zero knowlege of those things then you are very uneducated and will lack basic understanding of western society and much of world history.

[Anonymous]

You may just have to bribe the hell out of her. How attached is she to her phone. No church, no phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

I'm sorry but this is just simple and no opinionated strong-willed kid would fall for it. Either your kids love you enough to be placid or just don't want to bother with the fight but zero change you GOT EM with your sassy witty approach here.

OP, let it go. Your daughter has her own opinions. She is entitled to separate from religion. If your goal is for her to return, tell her you trut she will if the time is right. Maybe she will. But force it? She'll be gone for good.

How is she academically? I ask because my kids are hard changing academically and extracurricularly and play sports. If they had church every Sunday as a non-negotiable, they would not be able to do the things they do, and that would have hurt them in their achievements, cost opportunities, and affected their college choices. If I'd stood in the way of that for a belief they did not share, they would have (rightfully) held it against me forever. Is is possible she has other ambitions and priorities?

[Anonymous]

NP. Sorry, I didn’t read everything. Does she have siblings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She isn’t going to “see reason”. If you embrace that it will be easier. It can still be a family rule she doesn’t agree with, but you can’t force someone to agree.

My kid doesn’t think they should have to unload the dishwasher. Nothing I tell them will change their perspective. They still need to unload the dishwasher.

OP here, I fear I didn’t make clear how dramatic her refusal is. We physically need to carry her out the door on Sundays. It’s strange and embarrassing. She’s mostly such a well-behaved child, I just don’t understand.

WHAT HAPPENED at this church that a 15yo girl is so resistant to go that she’s being carried?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

Someone certainly has a high opinion of herself. Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

What whitewashed version? What’s pure Christianity..

What is haughty about saying, okay, you are an atheist, so at least be an educated, historically literate atheist with a basic understanding of how Christianity shaped our modern western society, literature, arts, science, medicine, architecture, social services, universal education, civil rights, western intellectual inquiry and the concept of freedom and individual rights.

You can ask my 15 year old atheist, born in a non-Judeo-Christian household, and she would be able to give you quite a coherent response (the good, the bad, and the ugly) of the role of Christianity in shaping Western society. Because she's not stupid and has learned world history without sitting through some whitewashed version of Christianity she's likely to hear in a church.

What whitewashed version? What’s pure Christianity? Does modern USA represent whitewashed or real Christianity?

Christianity in Modern USA = MAGA Cult of stupidity = Bible thumping morons who have never read a bible.

[Anonymous]

Right now at this juncture in the US Christian Nationalists want women to have no rights.

The Heritage Foundation is in the WH working on changing laws for all the women in this country and not for the better. Claiming that their belief in Christ is the reason for all of their hate and criminal activities.

The President of the US who MAGA claims is a god is 100% a pedophile and a felon. Today we found out that these pious shits raped 9 year olds and you want your kid to keep going to church?

Church the place where most likely a kid will be molested.

Christianity is trying to make women breeders and remove our rights to everything we have right now. Not like The Heritage Foundation has not put it in writing even this very week new pages of utter shit

Christianity pepper spraying children.
Christianity denying science so children will suffer
Christianity wanting to dumb down education sounds oh so grand...

Spare us your control freak crap OP your kid has a brain she is smarter and a dam better human than you could ever be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you lose is sleep. Afternoon services would be an easier sell to teens.

And that is a reasonable pushback with a reasonable solution.

Catholic churches and most evangelical mega churches have late morning and evening options.

If they are at one of the mainstream protestant churches that tend to be smaller due to falling membership, then the lack of worship times is likely exasperating the issue. In this case, the response to your statement that the drawback is losing sleep, the answer is that it is our job as parents to install behaviors in you that teach you discipline and self sacrifice, particularly for your family, whether you are an atheist or a nun or anything in between. Our family routine of attending Sunday services is how we choose to instill that value in you, so as a member of our family, you will attend

There are many ways to approach this argument with a budding atheist that are seeped in 9th grade logic and which do not include picking up a teenager and throwing her in the car.

Heck, 1 hour of Scripture study each week would likely be better than what is happening now. There are some great apps, such as Bible in a Year that you could study with her.

Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

I am the poster who started with “Wow” above. I think that telling a kid who is concerned about discrimination and bigotry within the larger community that people of other faith traditions who don’t attend Christian churches are “completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.” Is not going to help her see Christianity as something she wants to associate herself with.

If OP’s goal is to drive her kid away from both family and Christianity (which it might be) this is surefire way to do that.

Yes, if you are living in a western society, where most societal structures, government foundations, social service safety nets, civil rights advancements, institutions, literature, arts, and education structures were rooted in Judeo Christian values, beliefs and philosophies, and you have no knowlege or understanding of this Bible or Christian philosophy, history, values and the words as written text, then yes, you are all those things, not the least of which is woefully under educated.

And yet, many (most?) of us learn what we need to know outside of church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

Someone certainly has a high opinion of herself. Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

What whitewashed version? What’s pure Christianity..

What is haughty about saying, okay, you are an atheist, so at least be an educated, historically literate atheist with a basic understanding of how Christianity shaped our modern western society, literature, arts, science, medicine, architecture, social services, universal education, civil rights, western intellectual inquiry and the concept of freedom and individual rights.

You can ask my 15 year old atheist, born in a non-Judeo-Christian household, and she would be able to give you quite a coherent response (the good, the bad, and the ugly) of the role of Christianity in shaping Western society. Because she's not stupid and has learned world history without sitting through some whitewashed version of Christianity she's likely to hear in a church.

What whitewashed version? What’s pure Christianity? Does modern USA represent whitewashed or real Christianity?

Christianity in Modern USA = MAGA Cult of stupidity = Bible thumping morons who have never read a bible.

It’s so weird that Christians are claiming credit for all the liberal modern inventions but are actively against that today in 2026, why so?

[Anonymous]

Don't carry her out the door. This is abusive. She's 15, not 3 throwing a fit. It's humiliating. Who on Earth came up with this? She'll never forgive you. You're going to die on this hill all right, and for good.