DD 15 just won’t listen to reason!

[Anonymous]

You aren’t “reasoning” with her. You’re subjecting her and forcing her to believe something you believe.

It’s not like “you need to exercise because we have scientific proof that exercise benefits physical and mental health”

You’re essentially saying “you need to come to this building once a week and sing songs and chant and believe in a being that you can’t see because I said so”

You see the difference?

Back off mom, or you’re going to drive your kid away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t “reasoning” with her. You’re subjecting her and forcing her to believe something you believe.

It’s not like “you need to exercise because we have scientific proof that exercise benefits physical and mental health”

You’re essentially saying “you need to come to this building once a week and sing songs and chant and believe in a being that you can’t see because I said so”

You see the difference?

Back off mom, or you’re going to drive your kid away.

A family that was carrying a 15 year old to the car to force exercise would also be abusing their child.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t read through all the pages. I agree carrying her out is a bit dramatic.

I like the suggestion of making her volunteer during that time period. Or you can let her stay home, but that doesn’t mean she gets to sleep in and just hang out. She has to complete several chores.

I can’t tell if she just wants to chill at home or really doesn’t like church or just feels like being stubborn. Either way if you stop putting up a fight and redirect her energy you might get more results.

[Anonymous]

This thread makes it abundantly clear that OP is the one who won’t listen to reason.

[Anonymous]

Again, speak to your pastor, OP.
I seriously doubt they will endorse physically forcing a teen to attend as godly behavior.
If they do, well you are in a cult congregation and at least your child will be free of you in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Although she is still a child, she is old enough to have valid thoughts and feelings, and you are not accepting that. As others have said this may have a lasting impact on your relationship. Perhaps take a second look at your hard and fast rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you lose is sleep. Afternoon services would be an easier sell to teens.

And that is a reasonable pushback with a reasonable solution.

Catholic churches and most evangelical mega churches have late morning and evening options.

If they are at one of the mainstream protestant churches that tend to be smaller due to falling membership, then the lack of worship times is likely exasperating the issue. In this case, the response to your statement that the drawback is losing sleep, the answer is that it is our job as parents to install behaviors in you that teach you discipline and self sacrifice, particularly for your family, whether you are an atheist or a nun or anything in between. Our family routine of attending Sunday services is how we choose to instill that value in you, so as a member of our family, you will attend

There are many ways to approach this argument with a budding atheist that are seeped in 9th grade logic and which do not include picking up a teenager and throwing her in the car.

Heck, 1 hour of Scripture study each week would likely be better than what is happening now. There are some great apps, such as Bible in a Year that you could study with her.

Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

Wow.

We are a family that attends church, including the majority of our teens, but if those questions worked you have done a terrible job raising children who think.

1). This kid isn’t, for whatever reason, experiencing church as a “nice weekly tradition”, or their moral code as “just, kind, and reasonable.” There are plenty of churches out there whose moral codes aren’t (note: I don’t even have to name my political opinion here, every Christian has heard things proclaimed in the name of Christ that they don’t believe or find reasonable) OP claims that her church isn’t homophobic based on the pastor’s daughter, when we know the homophonic people can have LGBTQ relatives.

2) The Bible is clear that the path to Jesus is belief, not attending church. So if someone attends church and doesn’t believe then they will have the same experience and they didn’t attend church.

What has worked for us in adolescence is exploring with our kids what is important to them, and looking for a church that takes an active stance on those issues. We did change churches, to one that takes a strong pro LGBT stance. We also talked about other ways we can show our values. Our kids do a lot of service, most of it unconnected to church.

Did it work perfectly? No. Sometimes our kids choose to sleep through church, or to schedule things during church. But being crystal clear that their faith journey is their own, and that our love and acceptance have nothing to do with where they are on that journey, and avoiding power struggles and physical abuse, has worked for us in that we have kids who feel respected, and who in turn respect our beliefs.

yes, of course, all these things.

But OP needs a rudimentary starting point.

FWIW, my kids all continue to attend church, including the young adults, with zero prompting. Several have had high school friends who have converted or reverted based on their examples and ability to explain faith to kids raised with no faith in a way that makes sense. We have had high school and college acquaintances ask to attend church with us.

If you are a church going Christian family in the DC area, then you are very much a minority and your kids are absolutely surrounded by peers who are atheist, evangelical atheist, agnostic, raised without religion, Christmas/Easter and cultural "christians" who place religion below sports, dance competitions, sleeping in and trips to starbucks, and former religious who actively rejected faith.

Social media is loaded with immense pressure to reject both faith and family.

My kids know theology, our faith, the Bible and faith traditions. They are very well informed.

But when that whisper of atheism from their friends and social media creep in, you have to fight false emotiinally driven claims of "logic" that OPs daughter is espousing, with basic, rudimentary logic, to open the ears and heart that are currently slamming shut.

Right now, OP is just trying to get her foot in the door.

[Anonymous]

A 15 year old is old enough to have their own strongly held beliefs. I was about that age when I decided I did not want to be part of the church I was raised in. The way my mother behaved during that time impacts our relationship to this day (I am 40 now). And I'm still not a church goer.....

So I guess what is more important to you OP? Your relationship with your daughter or her attending church? You can force and coerce her until a certain point (ie, you could choose to withhold college money if she won't go, for example) but eventually you won't be able to control her anymore. Do you still want to have a relationship with her at that point?

Also why didn't you respond to the post asking if there was a possibility of her being abused at church?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

Wow.

We are a family that attends church, including the majority of our teens, but if those questions worked you have done a terrible job raising children who think.

1). This kid isn’t, for whatever reason, experiencing church as a “nice weekly tradition”, or their moral code as “just, kind, and reasonable.” There are plenty of churches out there whose moral codes aren’t (note: I don’t even have to name my political opinion here, every Christian has heard things proclaimed in the name of Christ that they don’t believe or find reasonable) OP claims that her church isn’t homophobic based on the pastor’s daughter, when we know the homophonic people can have LGBTQ relatives.

2) The Bible is clear that the path to Jesus is belief, not attending church. So if someone attends church and doesn’t believe then they will have the same experience and they didn’t attend church.

What has worked for us in adolescence is exploring with our kids what is important to them, and looking for a church that takes an active stance on those issues. We did change churches, to one that takes a strong pro LGBT stance. We also talked about other ways we can show our values. Our kids do a lot of service, most of it unconnected to church.

Did it work perfectly? No. Sometimes our kids choose to sleep through church, or to schedule things during church. But being crystal clear that their faith journey is their own, and that our love and acceptance have nothing to do with where they are on that journey, and avoiding power struggles and physical abuse, has worked for us in that we have kids who feel respected, and who in turn respect our beliefs.

yes, of course, all these things.

But OP needs a rudimentary starting point.

FWIW, my kids all continue to attend church, including the young adults, with zero prompting. Several have had high school friends who have converted or reverted based on their examples and ability to explain faith to kids raised with no faith in a way that makes sense. We have had high school and college acquaintances ask to attend church with us.

If you are a church going Christian family in the DC area, then you are very much a minority and your kids are absolutely surrounded by peers who are atheist, evangelical atheist, agnostic, raised without religion, Christmas/Easter and cultural "christians" who place religion below sports, dance competitions, sleeping in and trips to starbucks, and former religious who actively rejected faith.

Social media is loaded with immense pressure to reject both faith and family.

My kids know theology, our faith, the Bible and faith traditions. They are very well informed.

But when that whisper of atheism from their friends and social media creep in, you have to fight false emotiinally driven claims of "logic" that OPs daughter is espousing, with basic, rudimentary logic, to open the ears and heart that are currently slamming shut.

Right now, OP is just trying to get her foot in the door.

Non religious person here and you just reminded me why I love this area so much!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

Someone certainly has a high opinion of herself. Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you lose is sleep. Afternoon services would be an easier sell to teens.

And that is a reasonable pushback with a reasonable solution.

Catholic churches and most evangelical mega churches have late morning and evening options.

If they are at one of the mainstream protestant churches that tend to be smaller due to falling membership, then the lack of worship times is likely exasperating the issue. In this case, the response to your statement that the drawback is losing sleep, the answer is that it is our job as parents to install behaviors in you that teach you discipline and self sacrifice, particularly for your family, whether you are an atheist or a nun or anything in between. Our family routine of attending Sunday services is how we choose to instill that value in you, so as a member of our family, you will attend

There are many ways to approach this argument with a budding atheist that are seeped in 9th grade logic and which do not include picking up a teenager and throwing her in the car.

Heck, 1 hour of Scripture study each week would likely be better than what is happening now. There are some great apps, such as Bible in a Year that you could study with her.

Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

Any 15 year old growing up in this area is surrounded by people of different faiths, or no faith at all. I think it would be a pretty hard sell that all those people who grew up in different faith traditions/agnostic/atheist are therefore completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education, because they never went to church on Sundays. There are many ways to learn about Christianity and the Bible, and none of that has to do with sitting in a church on a designated day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

Wow.

We are a family that attends church, including the majority of our teens, but if those questions worked you have done a terrible job raising children who think.

1). This kid isn’t, for whatever reason, experiencing church as a “nice weekly tradition”, or their moral code as “just, kind, and reasonable.” There are plenty of churches out there whose moral codes aren’t (note: I don’t even have to name my political opinion here, every Christian has heard things proclaimed in the name of Christ that they don’t believe or find reasonable) OP claims that her church isn’t homophobic based on the pastor’s daughter, when we know the homophonic people can have LGBTQ relatives.

2) The Bible is clear that the path to Jesus is belief, not attending church. So if someone attends church and doesn’t believe then they will have the same experience and they didn’t attend church.

What has worked for us in adolescence is exploring with our kids what is important to them, and looking for a church that takes an active stance on those issues. We did change churches, to one that takes a strong pro LGBT stance. We also talked about other ways we can show our values. Our kids do a lot of service, most of it unconnected to church.

Did it work perfectly? No. Sometimes our kids choose to sleep through church, or to schedule things during church. But being crystal clear that their faith journey is their own, and that our love and acceptance have nothing to do with where they are on that journey, and avoiding power struggles and physical abuse, has worked for us in that we have kids who feel respected, and who in turn respect our beliefs.

I love that you changed churches to an affirming one, PP. I have raised my kids similarly and they currently (13 and 16) enjoy church a lot, and both chose to be confirmed, though their statements of faith were pretty vague (which was totally OK with everyone involved). My 13 year old just told me last night that she doesn't want to ever move away because how would she find another church like ours? I assured her that if you see BLM signs and rainbow flags then you have a good start.

My church has cleverly capitalized on what the kids, especially mine, enjoy doing, and they now put on a musical every year, and then they perform part of the musical in church services over many weeks, hence roping the kids into attending. I mean, it's pretty genius.

I recently went through a divorce and the church has been a safe place and a comfort to me and the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you lose is sleep. Afternoon services would be an easier sell to teens.

And that is a reasonable pushback with a reasonable solution.

Catholic churches and most evangelical mega churches have late morning and evening options.

If they are at one of the mainstream protestant churches that tend to be smaller due to falling membership, then the lack of worship times is likely exasperating the issue. In this case, the response to your statement that the drawback is losing sleep, the answer is that it is our job as parents to install behaviors in you that teach you discipline and self sacrifice, particularly for your family, whether you are an atheist or a nun or anything in between. Our family routine of attending Sunday services is how we choose to instill that value in you, so as a member of our family, you will attend

There are many ways to approach this argument with a budding atheist that are seeped in 9th grade logic and which do not include picking up a teenager and throwing her in the car.

Heck, 1 hour of Scripture study each week would likely be better than what is happening now. There are some great apps, such as Bible in a Year that you could study with her.

Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

I am the poster who started with “Wow” above. I think that telling a kid who is concerned about discrimination and bigotry within the larger community that people of other faith traditions who don’t attend Christian churches are “completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.” Is not going to help her see Christianity as something she wants to associate herself with.

If OP’s goal is to drive her kid away from both family and Christianity (which it might be) this is surefire way to do that.

[Anonymous]

Carrying a 15 yo out of the door is completely insane! I cannot imagine how it affects your DD. I'd most likely run away from "home" at this point if I was in her shoes. It's sad that she's small enough to be carried. My DS at 15 is 6'4" and 180 lbs, there's no-one who could carry him. What would you do then? Force at gunpoint? I also cannot fathom how you consider you forcing religion on your DD a "reason". You literally have a fixated idea of how your DD should behave and what she should believe.