DD 15 just won’t listen to reason!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She isn’t going to “see reason”. If you embrace that it will be easier. It can still be a family rule she doesn’t agree with, but you can’t force someone to agree.

My kid doesn’t think they should have to unload the dishwasher. Nothing I tell them will change their perspective. They still need to unload the dishwasher.

OP here, I fear I didn’t make clear how dramatic her refusal is. We physically need to carry her out the door on Sundays. It’s strange and embarrassing. She’s mostly such a well-behaved child, I just don’t understand.

WHAT HAPPENED at this church that a 15yo girl is so resistant to go that she’s being carried?

IT'S A FAKE POST jfc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are hardly enlightened by attending church. You are indoctrinated with whatever teachings they immerse you in.

I cannot believe that has to be spelled out.

[phone]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you lose is sleep. Afternoon services would be an easier sell to teens.

And that is a reasonable pushback with a reasonable solution.

Catholic churches and most evangelical mega churches have late morning and evening options.

If they are at one of the mainstream protestant churches that tend to be smaller due to falling membership, then the lack of worship times is likely exasperating the issue. In this case, the response to your statement that the drawback is losing sleep, the answer is that it is our job as parents to install behaviors in you that teach you discipline and self sacrifice, particularly for your family, whether you are an atheist or a nun or anything in between. Our family routine of attending Sunday services is how we choose to instill that value in you, so as a member of our family, you will attend

There are many ways to approach this argument with a budding atheist that are seeped in 9th grade logic and which do not include picking up a teenager and throwing her in the car.

Heck, 1 hour of Scripture study each week would likely be better than what is happening now. There are some great apps, such as Bible in a Year that you could study with her.

Explain to her that even if she is a virulent atheist, she will not be culturally literate or able to understand modern laws, the development of our western modern justice system, cultural norms in the US, the development of universal puplic education, public works/poverty services (driven by Christians), civil rights (driven by Christians) the anti slavery movement (driven by Christians), and much of the US hospital system (created mostly by Christians, specifically Catholics) without an understanding of Christianity, Christian philosophy, Christian social teaching, and the Bible.

Atheists' main claim to fame is that they are more enlightened and focus on truths and science, unburdened by myths, rituals, and superstitions of those pesky religious people.

The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education.

"The answer to that is any atheist without a solid knowlege base of the Bible, Christianity, Christian history and Christian moral teachings is completely ignorant, completely unenlightened, terribly uninformed, and lacking rudimentary education."

Wow you are ignorant. My 12 year old can 100% out talk you knowledgably about Christianity, the bible, history etc.

There is nothing "moral" about Christianity it is 100% indoctrination into a man made cult.

[Anonymous]

Someone needs to call CPS on OP she is not fit to parent.

Anyone on this thread pushing their religous crap on a 15 year old also sucks as a parent.

Religion is indoctrination into a cult.

Christianity is trying to ruin the US and all women's rights.

Take your thoughts and prayers and shove it.

[Anonymous]

My parents made us all go to church. It was awful and the church was later to be found hiding a pedo priest I was the youngest and did not get confirmed. I'm agnostic.

I have a large family and none of my siblings went to church as soon as they could leave. Stop forcing your beliefs on your daughter.

[Anonymous]

Op never came back. Guess this was a troll!

[Anonymous]

OP here, to shed more clarity on the situation this is a family tradition that I honestly don’t think it would really be my place to break just due to a teen’s whim. And I was being figurative when I say that I carry out the door; I don’t really, it just feels like it. Some of you folks are really no better than my kid! Lol.

[Anonymous]

Is this the first time you’re having these fights with her over control? if so, congrats. Most of us realize years before that we really can’t make our kids do anything. Yes we can punish or incentivize but make?

You can talk to her about it and say that you appreciate her going, even if she just uses the time to think about anything else. Or you can punish or incentivize. But hill you will die on has consequences. Choose wisely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Talk to her about the importance of learning about spirituality and faith. I'm not Christian but I tell my kids it's important to know how to pray and that these deeper moments of reflection, meditation, and connection are what get us through the difficult times in life.

That would be fine, as long as mom and family agree to attend a mosque, a synagogue, a Hindu temple, a Wiccan circle, etc on alternating weeks. You know, so she (and they) “can learn about the importance of spirituality and faith.”

Bet mom will be suuuuuper up for that. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look if they are Catholic the parents are literally keeping their daughter from going to Hell by attending church. Their daughter could be eternally damned in a ring of fire if she does not go every Sunday.

Her parents need to be supported for their love and grace.

Yawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

Team mom


Hang in there mama!

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We go to church every Sunday. As a family. Non-negotiable, sorry. That’s how it’s always been. When my DD 15 moves out of the house she can skip church if she’d like, she can join a monastery for all I care, but right now she lives with us and every Sunday you better believe she will be at church with us. End of discussion!

But she won’t listen to reason. She’s insisting that she’s an “atheist” and that somehow means she should be exempt from the family rule. Not how it works! She says that church makes her uncomfortable and has said that she has issues with “religion being homophobic.” Well our church isn’t, the minister’s daughter is married to a woman! But I can’t persuade her. It’s always a fight, every single week, and I’m just exhausted. How do I make my daughter understand why this is required?

This is a tough one OP. We've had a similar rule and age 14-15 is where we've run into problems.

Does she have friends at church? Is there a youth group or Sunday school class for teens? This helps a lot. I've agreed to let mine skip church services if they go to Youth group, sunday school or something else instead.

Does her dad attend church with the family?

Supposedly, Dad in the home attending church regularly is the strongest indicator of whether teens, boys and girls both, attend church.

**********

An argument that got all my kids through that tern hump was that I posed this 2 part question to them, followed by my answer after they gave their answer.

The first question was, what happens if atheism is correct, and you still participate in our family's faith traditions without a fight? I let them answer, then say that if atheism is correct, you don't lose anything by attending. What you receive is a nice weekly tradition of a couple of hours spending time with our family, some really nice holiday traditions, a moral code that is just, kind, and reasonable, and a stronger grasp than most of your peers of world history, modern western law, and current events, through your understanding of Christianity and the Bible.

After they have a second to digest that, I then ask the second half of the question which is what if the atheists are wrong and I am correct? For this question, I don't say anything else and let them stew on it. 4 kids and that question tends to move them to silence, with wheels turning in their brains.

That combination of questions makes them stop and think in a way that transcends tiktok, social media, and their peers.

4/4 and after those 2 questions, I have never again gotten pushback from my teens about attending church with the family.

What you have just described without even knowing it is literally Pascal’s wager. It is a known FALLACY.

You sure thought you sounded smart, huh? 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, to shed more clarity on the situation this is a family tradition that I honestly don’t think it would really be my place to break just due to a teen’s whim. And I was being figurative when I say that I carry out the door; I don’t really, it just feels like it. Some of you folks are really no better than my kid! Lol.

Family tradition started by whom? And what do you mean, not your place? Aren’t you the mother, the leader of the family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, to shed more clarity on the situation this is a family tradition that I honestly don’t think it would really be my place to break just due to a teen’s whim. And I was being figurative when I say that I carry out the door; I don’t really, it just feels like it. Some of you folks are really no better than my kid! Lol.

I don't believe for a second that this is actually OP.

Here, I'll play too. "I'm OP! I'm a psychotic nutcase and I am ignoring all of you because it's MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY, BABYYYYY"