Would you consider having a revenge affair/ fling if your spouse had an affair and you decided to stay together?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

I don’t think she’s deny that infidelity can cause serious harm. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her advocate for a partner to stay. I do think she’d raise an eyebrow at your suggestion that marital sex somehow becomes rape if a partner is cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

I don’t think she’s deny that infidelity can cause serious harm. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her advocate for a partner to stay. I do think she’d raise an eyebrow at your suggestion that marital sex somehow becomes rape if a partner is cheating.

The incredible violation you feel when you are having all kinds of sex with your spouse and find out they have been having unprotected sex with someone else is traumatizing. Period. I threw up as soon as I found out and felt sick for months after. It’s horrifying.

[Anonymous]

What you are saying is nice in theory. The problem is if I leave the marriage now after my spouses infidelity I will suffer and so will my kids.
So I won’t leave. But will get side action to numb the pain. For me that has helped.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

I don’t think she’s deny that infidelity can cause serious harm. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her advocate for a partner to stay. I do think she’d raise an eyebrow at your suggestion that marital sex somehow becomes rape if a partner is cheating.

The incredible violation you feel when you are having all kinds of sex with your spouse and find out they have been having unprotected sex with someone else is traumatizing. Period. I threw up as soon as I found out and felt sick for months after. It’s horrifying.

I am no Esther fan^^. I prefer Shirley Glass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you are saying is nice in theory. The problem is if I leave the marriage now after my spouses infidelity I will suffer and so will my kids.
So I won’t leave. But will get side action to numb the pain. For me that has helped.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

right. sounds better than throwing up repeatedly for months …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

I’ve read a lot of Esther Perel and I’ve never seen her advocate for the kind of selfish stupidity that a “revenge affair” would entail. Either fix your marriage or peace out. If you have an affair you’re a cheater too and you don’t have much of a right to be mad at your spouse, plus you are probably tanking any chance of fixing the marriage.

No, she doesn’t advocate for that. Nor would she advocate for a relationship eternally premised on being the victim-victimizer or one party being the more moral and ethical one. She certainly would not condemn a wife for having an emotionally cleansing fling. What she really advocates for is understanding that people have affairs (sometimes) in order to feel more alive even if the marriage is strong. She would advocate against an hysterically puritanical view that could never understand how an affair could indeed level the playing field as a way to move on.

I think you’ve missed the whole point… affairs aren’t healthy. When Ester Perel talks about how affairs fill an unmet need for people, that doesn’t mean they are healthy. I had an intense emotional affair- it definitely felt good but that doesn’t mean it was good on any level. And if my husband turned it around and had an affair too I wouldn’t blame him but at that point, why bother being married?

He would just be trying to hurt me in return for hurting him. Why would I want that for myself even if I was the absolute worst wife? This isn’t about “condemnation” or perpetually being a victim. A marriage can’t take an endless amount of assault and come out intact. If you are dead set on lying, cheating, and sneaking around, you are just harming yourself and the marriage.

I think the bigger question is why you would think, after your affair, that your husband had any obligation of monogamy to you? Why is it that you only think the "point" of being married is broken when he has an affair after you do? The "point" of being married was broken by YOU when you had YOUR affair, and if he were to "cheat", he would just be behaving as a person who no longer owes a commitment of monogamy - which he doesn't because you broke that vow by cheating.

Also, how strange it is that you frame it is "why would I want to be with someone who would hurt me" - and yet, you hurt him with the infidelity. The real question is why would he continue to sleep with or be in any kind of relationship with someone who cheated on him - even if he was the worst husband, why would he want that for himself? no one
deserves to be cheated on even if they were a terrible husband.

You seem really to be pathologically unable to take responsibility for your actions and very narcissistically self-centered and with a lack of empathy.

This is the curious thing that cheaters don't understand - the marriage and the vow of monogamy is over the moment a cheater cheats. Your spouse owes you nothing if you cheat, least of all any kind of continued monogamy or honesty.

[Anonymous]

Calling marital sex rape after infidelity is nuts. Name one state in the US that defines it as such in its criminal code. Sounds like some wacked out left wing feminist talk.


quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

I don’t think she’s deny that infidelity can cause serious harm. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her advocate for a partner to stay. I do think she’d raise an eyebrow at your suggestion that marital sex somehow becomes rape if a partner is cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

I don’t think she’s deny that infidelity can cause serious harm. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her advocate for a partner to stay. I do think she’d raise an eyebrow at your suggestion that marital sex somehow becomes rape if a partner is cheating.

The incredible violation you feel when you are having all kinds of sex with your spouse and find out they have been having unprotected sex with someone else is traumatizing. Period. I threw up as soon as I found out and felt sick for months after. It’s horrifying.

+1. It is knowing that your spouse deliberately tricked you into having sex on terms (non-monogamy) that they knew you would never have agreed to had they told you they were sleeping with someone else. It is non-consensual sex. It is sex without informed consent. It is non-consensual sex by fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

I’ve read a lot of Esther Perel and I’ve never seen her advocate for the kind of selfish stupidity that a “revenge affair” would entail. Either fix your marriage or peace out. If you have an affair you’re a cheater too and you don’t have much of a right to be mad at your spouse, plus you are probably tanking any chance of fixing the marriage.

No, she doesn’t advocate for that. Nor would she advocate for a relationship eternally premised on being the victim-victimizer or one party being the more moral and ethical one. She certainly would not condemn a wife for having an emotionally cleansing fling. What she really advocates for is understanding that people have affairs (sometimes) in order to feel more alive even if the marriage is strong. She would advocate against an hysterically puritanical view that could never understand how an affair could indeed level the playing field as a way to move on.

I think you’ve missed the whole point… affairs aren’t healthy. When Ester Perel talks about how affairs fill an unmet need for people, that doesn’t mean they are healthy. I had an intense emotional affair- it definitely felt good but that doesn’t mean it was good on any level. And if my husband turned it around and had an affair too I wouldn’t blame him but at that point, why bother being married?

He would just be trying to hurt me in return for hurting him. Why would I want that for myself even if I was the absolute worst wife? This isn’t about “condemnation” or perpetually being a victim. A marriage can’t take an endless amount of assault and come out intact. If you are dead set on lying, cheating, and sneaking around, you are just harming yourself and the marriage.

I think the bigger question is why you would think, after your affair, that your husband had any obligation of monogamy to you? Why is it that you only think the "point" of being married is broken when he has an affair after you do? The "point" of being married was broken by YOU when you had YOUR affair, and if he were to "cheat", he would just be behaving as a person who no longer owes a commitment of monogamy - which he doesn't because you broke that vow by cheating.

Also, how strange it is that you frame it is "why would I want to be with someone who would hurt me" - and yet, you hurt him with the infidelity. The real question is why would he continue to sleep with or be in any kind of relationship with someone who cheated on him - even if he was the worst husband, why would he want that for himself? no one
deserves to be cheated on even if they were a terrible husband.

You seem really to be pathologically unable to take responsibility for your actions and very narcissistically self-centered and with a lack of empathy.

This is the curious thing that cheaters don't understand - the marriage and the vow of monogamy is over the moment a cheater cheats. Your spouse owes you nothing if you cheat, least of all any kind of continued monogamy or honesty.

Because he loves me. I know it absolutely makes your blood boil that someone could make a mistake and still be loved when you don’t have that capacity for love and forgiveness.

If your marriage is about hurting each other back and forth like a tennis match that sounds terrible and guess what, I’m not interested in that for myself. Be mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Calling marital sex rape after infidelity is nuts. Name one state in the US that defines it as such in its criminal code. Sounds like some wacked out left wing feminist talk.


quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

I don’t think she’s deny that infidelity can cause serious harm. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her advocate for a partner to stay. I do think she’d raise an eyebrow at your suggestion that marital sex somehow becomes rape if a partner is cheating.

Thanks for mansplaining (womansplaining? EstherPerelsplaining?) what the victim of infidelity is allowed to feel after being victimized.

I'm sure that back when marital rape wasn't considered "real rape" that a lot of women were told that they shouldn't feel like they were raped by their husbands.

FYI, "legally it's not rape" isn't a great argument".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Calling marital sex rape after infidelity is nuts. Name one state in the US that defines it as such in its criminal code. Sounds like some wacked out left wing feminist talk.


quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

I don’t think she’s deny that infidelity can cause serious harm. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her advocate for a partner to stay. I do think she’d raise an eyebrow at your suggestion that marital sex somehow becomes rape if a partner is cheating.

Thanks for mansplaining (womansplaining? EstherPerelsplaining?) what the victim of infidelity is allowed to feel after being victimized.

I'm sure that back when marital rape wasn't considered "real rape" that a lot of women were told that they shouldn't feel like they were raped by their husbands.

FYI, "legally it's not rape" isn't a great argument".


DP. This is super hyperbolic. Calling infidelity rape in any sense is very inappropriate and an insult to actual assault victims, including married ones. You’re entitled to your feelings but your feelings can’t alter reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No.

When my husband cheated, my high school sweetheart was newly single. He gets in touch every few years with some kind of special memory. I blocked him on SM to remove the temptation to reach out to him.

And to be honest, I wasn't too concerned about my husband's feelings at that time. But I knew that affairs are selfish, short-sighted, and destructive. Why would I do that to myself or to my imaginary AP? The endorphins would be brief, but the consequences would be long.

Ten years later, I know I made the right decision. If I want to be with someone else, I'll open my marriage, end my marriage, or work through those feelings some other way. But cheating is just a short term high with long-lasting harm.

I get what you’re saying but I don’t think anyone would consider a one night fling with a hot ex to be “cheating” in that scenario. And leveling the playing field could have real psychological benefits for some. I’m just talking about a fling, not a full on affair.

Let me fix what you wrote.

I get what you’re saying and I think anyone would consider a one night fling with a hot ex to be “cheating” in any scenario. And "leveling" the playing field could have real psychological damage for some. I’m just talking about a fling, not a full on affair.

[Anonymous]

It is the least bad choice for ME. Others will believe and act differently.

quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you are saying is nice in theory. The problem is if I leave the marriage now after my spouses infidelity I will suffer and so will my kids.
So I won’t leave. But will get side action to numb the pain. For me that has helped.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

right. sounds better than throwing up repeatedly for months …

[Anonymous]

No. Just not agreeing with radical feminist concepts that are not legally recognized in the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Calling marital sex rape after infidelity is nuts. Name one state in the US that defines it as such in its criminal code. Sounds like some wacked out left wing feminist talk.


quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be better. What has happened has happened. Dealing as best you can with the cards you have been dealt.

Watch Esther Parel. She talks about on in America there is this pressure to get divorced whenever infidelity happens. There is little consideration to how it affects family bonds or kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they value being with their kids every day! Americans don’t value family enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

the vast majority of philosophers and humans would consider a well-timed and satisfying fling in the wake of a partner’s affair to be quite excusable. It would be about sex, full stop. Nothing to do with proving yourself desirable or better, just evening the playing field. I don’t mean tit for tat necessarily, but it means you now
have an equal experience. Not sure why it would cause so much “hurt”. It makes you equals.

This makes me think of that maxim we all learn in kindergarten 'two wrongs don't make a....', wait no, not that it was, 'an eye for an eye' yeah.

OP, you know yourself (and your DH) best. Therefore, do not let the glib posters (like the "two wrongs" poster) unduly influence you. It may be that your DH can only understand how the affair made you feel after you have one yourself.

I know of circumstances where a DH had affairs, promised to stop, but did not until the DW had started having affairs herself. Once he knew that she had experienced and enjoyed another man, he understood the impact of his actions. In other words, the DH lacked the empathic awareness to understand how the DW felt until she treated him like he had treated her.

Of course, most men are not that shallow and feel actual remorse for the affair without having to feel the pain themselves. However, you know him well enough to know if he might need the lesson your affair would provide.

Seriously: why stay married in this circumstance. Everyone in the bolded relationship behaved without honesty, integrity, or self-respect. This is sad.

There are worse things in life than being divorced and single. Seriously.

That’s kind of a manipulative excuse, right? Like your spouse could have used the exact same reasoning for cheating on you:

I can’t stand this marriage but I want to be with my kids every day.

In fact, I see plain old cheaters using that rationale on this website constantly.

You can “revenge cheat” if you want but you’re no better than the original cheater.

The thing I hate, hate, hate about Esther Perel is the way that she prioritizes kids and family bonds over the health and safety of the victim of infidelity. She doesn't see infidelity as abusive or manipulative, and she doesn't deal with the way it turns what the victim partner thought was consensual sex on the basis of negotiated monogamy into non-consensual sex.

Infidelity, particularly serial or long term, can cause significant long term trauma to the victim partner and advocating for partners to stay together in the interests of "familial bonds" and "effect on the children" is just advocating rape culture. It is asking the victim partner to stay in an unsafe environment. It's not the victim who should consider the impact of their response (divorce or not) to infidelity on family bonds or kids after the i fidelity - it's the cheater, who should have considered kids and family bonds before cheating.

Sometimes actions have consequences that can't be fixed.

I don’t think she’s deny that infidelity can cause serious harm. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her advocate for a partner to stay. I do think she’d raise an eyebrow at your suggestion that marital sex somehow becomes rape if a partner is cheating.

Thanks for mansplaining (womansplaining? EstherPerelsplaining?) what the victim of infidelity is allowed to feel after being victimized.

I'm sure that back when marital rape wasn't considered "real rape" that a lot of women were told that they shouldn't feel like they were raped by their husbands.

FYI, "legally it's not rape" isn't a great argument".