What Does FCPS Do with Excess Capacity at Herndon HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.

FCPS grad here. Not true to some extent. I remember how some of my high school teachers told me in confidence they only wanted to teach at the AP level because they wanted higher motivated students with less discipline issues.
you probably get that to some extent where teachers rather teacher in a higher rated school cs lower rated school.

Kids do matter. Chantilly was a meh HS no one wanted until the got the Academy and moved the UMC neighborhoods like Franklin Farm there. Now it is routinely tied with or even surpasses HSs like Oakton on metrics like average SATs, despite being much less wealthy. The kids and their families aren’t part of what makes a school great. They are most of what makes a school great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you listened to the CIP discussion last night, it's clear where this board wants to go:

* Update the policy on boundary changes

* Have staff come up with county-wide boundary change recommendations, rather than one-off changes proposed by individual Board members.

So no one will get moved from Forestville to Langley on a one-off basis at the behest of any single Board member. But when staff comes up with the county-wide recommendations in a few years, all bets are off.

+1. Sounds like this is truly the time that boundaries are going to be scrutinized, unless every member yesterday was spewing lies and wasting each other's time.

Time will tell. It’s one thing to talk a big game, but quite another to kick up the hornets’ nest that comes with redistricting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you listened to the CIP discussion last night, it's clear where this board wants to go:

* Update the policy on boundary changes

* Have staff come up with county-wide boundary change recommendations, rather than one-off changes proposed by individual Board members.

So no one will get moved from Forestville to Langley on a one-off basis at the behest of any single Board member. But when staff comes up with the county-wide recommendations in a few years, all bets are off.

+1. Sounds like this is truly the time that boundaries are going to be scrutinized, unless every member yesterday was spewing lies and wasting each other's time.

The county-wide boundary changes will join the western HS as things discussed about but never accomplished. They are fooling themselves if they think it would be apolitical if they just hand it over to staff to handle. The people who fight changes they don't like don't differentiate between changes proposed by staff and changes proposed by school board members.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you listened to the CIP discussion last night, it's clear where this board wants to go:

* Update the policy on boundary changes

* Have staff come up with county-wide boundary change recommendations, rather than one-off changes proposed by individual Board members.

So no one will get moved from Forestville to Langley on a one-off basis at the behest of any single Board member. But when staff comes up with the county-wide recommendations in a few years, all bets are off.

+1. Sounds like this is truly the time that boundaries are going to be scrutinized, unless every member yesterday was spewing lies and wasting each other's time.

Time will tell. It’s one thing to talk a big game, but quite another to kick up the hornets’ nest that comes with redistricting.

The Herndon Hornets nest, lol?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t tell me what to think. And don’t be a paternalistic jerk. I don’t want Forestville kids anywhere near my school.

The kids you don’t want are aged 5-11. Seconding the you are a racist jerk sentiment. Langley has fewer FARMS kids than any HS in the county by a wide margin. It even beats out TJ (or did until admissions changed). Marking Langley 10-29% FARM is not going to destroy the Hs or your kid. Other HSs (Chantilly, W Springfield, etc do very well with much higher FARMS and ELL numbers than that. You you can’t handle some poor kids in your HS, go private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.

Bingo. Thats exactly why considering how to efficiently use available space and minimize transportation costs where possible likely makes sense.

Nah, I don’t but your zero-sum game utopia, and I’m not interested in theory-testing with my kids being your lab rats. Also, it’s a little racist/classist for you to claim that Forestville students would make Herndon High better.

First, it’s not a zero-sum game if we spend scarce capital resources expanding schools but don’t use that space because it might offend some entitled Langley mom. It’s a net negative.

Second, if Forestville kids moved back to Langley, it would increase the demand for advanced courses that Herndon is otherwise fully capable of offering. There’s nothing racist in acknowledging this. But I guess you’re fine with a situation where scheduling conflicts are more likely to be an issue at Herndon than at other schools.

DS at HMS, and even I think your Forestville efforts are pretty racist.

This is hilarious. No one on either side wants the equity crusader meddling in their schools. Go back to worrying about your own kids’ education, rather than social engineering.

Getting a good third party, neutral company to do a boundary survey that might result in your kid moving to a poorer school or poorer/ELL kids moving to your school isn’t social engineering. It’s dealing with the fact that Western County growth has lead to uneven enrollment numbers. You think Chantilly should sit at 125% capacity while other school are under-enrolled because evening out capacity among Western HSs is “social engineering”? Seriously?

Your kid can cope with learning in the same building as the Poors. Being poor and ELL is not catching. And it’s not like ELL kids are taking Hinors and APs with your kids. You’re talking lunchroom and PE. And if they can’’t Cope, you’ve got bigger issues than DCUM can address.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you listened to the CIP discussion last night, it's clear where this board wants to go:

* Update the policy on boundary changes

* Have staff come up with county-wide boundary change recommendations, rather than one-off changes proposed by individual Board members.

So no one will get moved from Forestville to Langley on a one-off basis at the behest of any single Board member. But when staff comes up with the county-wide recommendations in a few years, all bets are off.

+1. Sounds like this is truly the time that boundaries are going to be scrutinized, unless every member yesterday was spewing lies and wasting each other's time.

Good. Lots of people don’t want it— including me. My kids are out, but my house is more valuable zoned for Chantilly than Herndon. But, it needs to happen. And FFS, please let them clean up the Carson 4 way split and get all the Franklin based AAP kids back to Franklin. Its AAP center was new and tiny 10 years ago. Now, Franklin is more than capable of being a good Center. But, not until it gets capacity relief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you listened to the CIP discussion last night, it's clear where this board wants to go:

* Update the policy on boundary changes

* Have staff come up with county-wide boundary change recommendations, rather than one-off changes proposed by individual Board members.

So no one will get moved from Forestville to Langley on a one-off basis at the behest of any single Board member. But when staff comes up with the county-wide recommendations in a few years, all bets are off.

+1. Sounds like this is truly the time that boundaries are going to be scrutinized, unless every member yesterday was spewing lies and wasting each other's time.

I hope so. But, the SB is very capable of spewing lies and wasting time.

[Anonymous]

Was there ANY discussion of the new western HS during the School Board meeting last night? Or are they just sticking it in the CIP like their predecessors did and thinking we won't notice that nothing ever happens?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.

Bingo. Thats exactly why considering how to efficiently use available space and minimize transportation costs where possible likely makes sense.

Nah, I don’t but your zero-sum game utopia, and I’m not interested in theory-testing with my kids being your lab rats. Also, it’s a little racist/classist for you to claim that Forestville students would make Herndon High better.

First, it’s not a zero-sum game if we spend scarce capital resources expanding schools but don’t use that space because it might offend some entitled Langley mom. It’s a net negative.

Second, if Forestville kids moved back to Langley, it would increase the demand for advanced courses that Herndon is otherwise fully capable of offering. There’s nothing racist in acknowledging this. But I guess you’re fine with a situation where scheduling conflicts are more likely to be an issue at Herndon than at other schools.

DS at HMS, and even I think your Forestville efforts are pretty racist.

This is hilarious. No one on either side wants the equity crusader meddling in their schools. Go back to worrying about your own kids’ education, rather than social engineering.

DP. I am. I could give 2 flying f—k about where Langley kids end up. But something got to give. My kids education is being compromised by being at Chantilly with dozens of trailers and sitting at 125% of capacity. Dealing with that level of overcrowding is not social engineering or DEI or whatever it’s competent management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was there ANY discussion of the new western HS during the School Board meeting last night? Or are they just sticking it in the CIP like their predecessors did and thinking we won't notice that nothing ever happens?

They’ve expanded 4 Western HSs (Centerville, HHS, SLHS and Centerville) since the mythical W. county Hs entered the CIP. It’s never gonna happen. To start with, they sold the only site that made sense (the Carson adjacent land) to Saudis Arabia and now there is a great new private school there. The Hutchinson site makes no sense given where capacity relief is needed and the traffic issues it would cause. But, they have no Plan B as far as I can tell.

Once they sold the Carson site, any hope of a new Hs was over. And with the demographic cliff and expansion of the 4 HSs, it isn’t really needed. The capacity issues can be dealt with my boundary adjustment. It’s just that the SB is too afraid do make them happen. And I believe they will slow walk boundary adjustments here until after the next SB election rather than growing a pair and making it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was there ANY discussion of the new western HS during the School Board meeting last night? Or are they just sticking it in the CIP like their predecessors did and thinking we won't notice that nothing ever happens?

They’ve expanded 4 Western HSs (Centerville, HHS, SLHS and Centerville) since the mythical W. county Hs entered the CIP. It’s never gonna happen. To start with, they sold the only site that made sense (the Carson adjacent land) to Saudis Arabia and now there is a great new private school there. The Hutchinson site makes no sense given where capacity relief is needed and the traffic issues it would cause. But, they have no Plan B as far as I can tell.

Once they sold the Carson site, any hope of a new Hs was over. And with the demographic cliff and expansion of the 4 HSs, it isn’t really needed. The capacity issues can be dealt with my boundary adjustment. It’s just that the SB is too afraid do make them happen. And I believe they will slow walk boundary adjustments here until after the next SB election rather than growing a pair and making it happen.

I wasn't asking about whether the western HS should or will get built. As far as I can tell, it's DOA now for the reasons you mention.

I was asking whether the School Board discussed it since it's again very prominently featured in the CIP. They seem to want to convey the message that they are going to do business differently than their predecessors. A good start would be to have a CIP that reflects reality, and not what's been a false promise for over a decade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.

Bingo. Thats exactly why considering how to efficiently use available space and minimize transportation costs where possible likely makes sense.

Nah, I don’t but your zero-sum game utopia, and I’m not interested in theory-testing with my kids being your lab rats. Also, it’s a little racist/classist for you to claim that Forestville students would make Herndon High better.

First, it’s not a zero-sum game if we spend scarce capital resources expanding schools but don’t use that space because it might offend some entitled Langley mom. It’s a net negative.

Second, if Forestville kids moved back to Langley, it would increase the demand for advanced courses that Herndon is otherwise fully capable of offering. There’s nothing racist in acknowledging this. But I guess you’re fine with a situation where scheduling conflicts are more likely to be an issue at Herndon than at other schools.

DS at HMS, and even I think your Forestville efforts are pretty racist.

This is hilarious. No one on either side wants the equity crusader meddling in their schools. Go back to worrying about your own kids’ education, rather than social engineering.

DP. I am. I could give 2 flying f—k about where Langley kids end up. But something got to give. My kids education is being compromised by being at Chantilly with dozens of trailers and sitting at 125% of capacity. Dealing with that level of overcrowding is not social engineering or DEI or whatever it’s competent management.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Shouldn't they take it out of the CIP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was there ANY discussion of the new western HS during the School Board meeting last night? Or are they just sticking it in the CIP like their predecessors did and thinking we won't notice that nothing ever happens?

They’ve expanded 4 Western HSs (Centerville, HHS, SLHS and Centerville) since the mythical W. county Hs entered the CIP. It’s never gonna happen. To start with, they sold the only site that made sense (the Carson adjacent land) to Saudis Arabia and now there is a great new private school there. The Hutchinson site makes no sense given where capacity relief is needed and the traffic issues it would cause. But, they have no Plan B as far as I can tell.

Once they sold the Carson site, any hope of a new Hs was over. And with the demographic cliff and expansion of the 4 HSs, it isn’t really needed. The capacity issues can be dealt with my boundary adjustment. It’s just that the SB is too afraid do make them happen. And I believe they will slow walk boundary adjustments here until after the next SB election rather than growing a pair and making it happen.

I wasn't asking about whether the western HS should or will get built. As far as I can tell, it's DOA now for the reasons you mention.

I was asking whether the School Board discussed it since it's again very prominently featured in the CIP. They seem to want to convey the message that they are going to do business differently than their predecessors. A good start would be to have a CIP that reflects reality, and not what's been a false promise for over a decade.

I didn't catch any mention of the Western HS during the snippets I listened to as they discussed boundaries, but the overarching idea is that facilities, student-to-teacher ratio, academic program offerings, overcrowding, cost of bus routes, and even teacher salary are all coming to a head and it all boils down to boundary policy that can address the issues.

All that to say, I think the implication is that land acquisition for a Western HS will be decided after having a sensible boundary plan first.