What Does FCPS Do with Excess Capacity at Herndon HS

Anonymous
From Kyle McDaniel, one of the new at-large members:

"On February 13th, the School Board will hold a work session to discuss a path forward that addresses significant gaps in existing policies, and creates a roadmap for a division wide boundary adjustment. In my comments last night, I stated that I will not support any more one-off boundary changes until we overhaul these flawed policies, and implement a County-wide boundary study to fix the overcrowding that has plagued our schools for decades."

Anyone familiar with FCPS suspects he and his colleagues will over-promise and under-deliver, but it would be worth the price of admission alone just to watch the Langley heads explode.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.


Bingo. Thats exactly why considering how to efficiently use available space and minimize transportation costs where possible likely makes sense.


Nah, I don’t but your zero-sum game utopia, and I’m not interested in theory-testing with my kids being your lab rats. Also, it’s a little racist/classist for you to claim that Forestville students would make Herndon High better.


First, it’s not a zero-sum game if we spend scarce capital resources expanding schools but don’t use that space because it might offend some entitled Langley mom. It’s a net negative.

Second, if Forestville kids moved back to Langley, it would increase the demand for advanced courses that Herndon is otherwise fully capable of offering. There’s nothing racist in acknowledging this. But I guess you’re fine with a situation where scheduling conflicts are more likely to be an issue at Herndon than at other schools.


DS at HMS, and even I think your Forestville efforts are pretty racist.


This is hilarious. No one on either side wants the equity crusader meddling in their schools. Go back to worrying about your own kids’ education, rather than social engineering.


DP. I am. I could give 2 flying f—k about where Langley kids end up. But something got to give. My kids education is being compromised by being at Chantilly with dozens of trailers and sitting at 125% of capacity. Dealing with that level of overcrowding is not social engineering or DEI or whatever it’s competent management.


DP. Sure, and you have a good point. But Chantilly overcrowding has nothing to do with Langley.


Wow. Talk about being myopic. In any comprehensive boundary adjustment, of course Chantilly overcrowding could affect Langley. I know you think that the other 24 HSs in FCPS revolve around Langley, but they don’t. You sound like Jan on the Brady Bunch. “Langley, Langley, Langley”. Western county boundaries are an intertwined mess— and not just at the HS level. PP is right, as an example, that Carson boundaries are a mess. Any substantive discussion and compressive solution of underenrollment at HHS ends up and boundary adjustments involving ESs and MSs as well Centerville, Chantilly, Westfield, SLHS, HHS, Langley, probably McLean and Oakton. Maybe even Madison. And I’m probably missing a school or two.

I know that in your mind only Langley counts. And sure shuffling some kids between HHS and Langley helps solve one part of one problem. But that’s a band aid over the bullet hole solution. If there is going to be an actual, substantive solution, it won’t just involve HHS and Langley. 6 or 8 or 10 other HSs will come along for the ride. Including Chantilly, because their overenrollment has to go somewhere, and some Chantilly kids do have Herndon addresses (like the many of the Oak Hill kids). For Chantilly kids closer to Carson, HHS might be one option. Or, the might go to Westfield, and some Westfield kids might go to HHS. Western County boundary cannot be solved by moving one neighborhood from one school to another. In the end, about 1/3 of FCPS HSs are involved.

I hate these threads where people are trying to have a substantive conversation and the Langley parents jump in, insult everyone, and insist that only the impact on Langley matters. It may be all that matters to you, but Langley and HHS would not be the only two schools involved in a meaningful boundary change that addresses even half of the issues with Weatern County boundaries.

We know where Langley parents stand. Their kids deserve a school that is 1-2% FARMs and ELL. Basically, a private school in a public school system. Message received, loud and clear. So Please. Go away. Lots of other parents and kids from lots of other schools are affected. And I know you can’t fathom this, but they have opinions worth considering and concerns that need to be addressed too.
[i]
SMDH.


This should be the sticky for the entire FCPS forum.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.


Bingo. Thats exactly why considering how to efficiently use available space and minimize transportation costs where possible likely makes sense.


Nah, I don’t but your zero-sum game utopia, and I’m not interested in theory-testing with my kids being your lab rats. Also, it’s a little racist/classist for you to claim that Forestville students would make Herndon High better.


First, it’s not a zero-sum game if we spend scarce capital resources expanding schools but don’t use that space because it might offend some entitled Langley mom. It’s a net negative.

Second, if Forestville kids moved back to Langley, it would increase the demand for advanced courses that Herndon is otherwise fully capable of offering. There’s nothing racist in acknowledging this. But I guess you’re fine with a situation where scheduling conflicts are more likely to be an issue at Herndon than at other schools.


DS at HMS, and even I think your Forestville efforts are pretty racist.


This is hilarious. No one on either side wants the equity crusader meddling in their schools. Go back to worrying about your own kids’ education, rather than social engineering.


DP. I am. I could give 2 flying f—k about where Langley kids end up. But something got to give. My kids education is being compromised by being at Chantilly with dozens of trailers and sitting at 125% of capacity. Dealing with that level of overcrowding is not social engineering or DEI or whatever it’s competent management.


DP. Sure, and you have a good point. But Chantilly overcrowding has nothing to do with Langley.


Wow. Talk about being myopic. In any comprehensive boundary adjustment, of course Chantilly overcrowding could affect Langley. I know you think that the other 24 HSs in FCPS revolve around Langley, but they don’t. You sound like Jan on the Brady Bunch. “Langley, Langley, Langley”. Western county boundaries are an intertwined mess— and not just at the HS level. PP is right, as an example, that Carson boundaries are a mess. Any substantive discussion and compressive solution of underenrollment at HHS ends up and boundary adjustments involving ESs and MSs as well Centerville, Chantilly, Westfield, SLHS, HHS, Langley, probably McLean and Oakton. Maybe even Madison. And I’m probably missing a school or two.

I know that in your mind only Langley counts. And sure shuffling some kids between HHS and Langley helps solve one part of one problem. But that’s a band aid over the bullet hole solution. If there is going to be an actual, substantive solution, it won’t just involve HHS and Langley. 6 or 8 or 10 other HSs will come along for the ride. Including Chantilly, because their overenrollment has to go somewhere, and some Chantilly kids do have Herndon addresses (like the many of the Oak Hill kids). For Chantilly kids closer to Carson, HHS might be one option. Or, the might go to Westfield, and some Westfield kids might go to HHS. Western County boundary cannot be solved by moving one neighborhood from one school to another. In the end, about 1/3 of FCPS HSs are involved.

I hate these threads where people are trying to have a substantive conversation and the Langley parents jump in, insult everyone, and insist that only the impact on Langley matters. It may be all that matters to you, but Langley and HHS would not be the only two schools involved in a meaningful boundary change that addresses even half of the issues with Weatern County boundaries.

We know where Langley parents stand. Their kids deserve a school that is 1-2% FARMs and ELL. Basically, a private school in a public school system. Message received, loud and clear. So Please. Go away. Lots of other parents and kids from lots of other schools are affected. And I know you can’t fathom this, but they have opinions worth considering and concerns that need to be addressed too.
[i]
SMDH.


This should be the sticky for the entire FCPS forum.


If you go back and look at the initial post, you’ll see that the Langley discussion is directly on point. If you want to talk about non-Herndon ramifications, that’s fine, but it is you, my dear, that is in the wrong thread.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.


Bingo. Thats exactly why considering how to efficiently use available space and minimize transportation costs where possible likely makes sense.


Nah, I don’t but your zero-sum game utopia, and I’m not interested in theory-testing with my kids being your lab rats. Also, it’s a little racist/classist for you to claim that Forestville students would make Herndon High better.


First, it’s not a zero-sum game if we spend scarce capital resources expanding schools but don’t use that space because it might offend some entitled Langley mom. It’s a net negative.

Second, if Forestville kids moved back to Langley, it would increase the demand for advanced courses that Herndon is otherwise fully capable of offering. There’s nothing racist in acknowledging this. But I guess you’re fine with a situation where scheduling conflicts are more likely to be an issue at Herndon than at other schools.


DS at HMS, and even I think your Forestville efforts are pretty racist.


This is hilarious. No one on either side wants the equity crusader meddling in their schools. Go back to worrying about your own kids’ education, rather than social engineering.


DP. I am. I could give 2 flying f—k about where Langley kids end up. But something got to give. My kids education is being compromised by being at Chantilly with dozens of trailers and sitting at 125% of capacity. Dealing with that level of overcrowding is not social engineering or DEI or whatever it’s competent management.


DP. Sure, and you have a good point. But Chantilly overcrowding has nothing to do with Langley.


Wow. Talk about being myopic. In any comprehensive boundary adjustment, of course Chantilly overcrowding could affect Langley. I know you think that the other 24 HSs in FCPS revolve around Langley, but they don’t. You sound like Jan on the Brady Bunch. “Langley, Langley, Langley”. Western county boundaries are an intertwined mess— and not just at the HS level. PP is right, as an example, that Carson boundaries are a mess. Any substantive discussion and compressive solution of underenrollment at HHS ends up and boundary adjustments involving ESs and MSs as well Centerville, Chantilly, Westfield, SLHS, HHS, Langley, probably McLean and Oakton. Maybe even Madison. And I’m probably missing a school or two.

I know that in your mind only Langley counts. And sure shuffling some kids between HHS and Langley helps solve one part of one problem. But that’s a band aid over the bullet hole solution. If there is going to be an actual, substantive solution, it won’t just involve HHS and Langley. 6 or 8 or 10 other HSs will come along for the ride. Including Chantilly, because their overenrollment has to go somewhere, and some Chantilly kids do have Herndon addresses (like the many of the Oak Hill kids). For Chantilly kids closer to Carson, HHS might be one option. Or, the might go to Westfield, and some Westfield kids might go to HHS. Western County boundary cannot be solved by moving one neighborhood from one school to another. In the end, about 1/3 of FCPS HSs are involved.

I hate these threads where people are trying to have a substantive conversation and the Langley parents jump in, insult everyone, and insist that only the impact on Langley matters. It may be all that matters to you, but Langley and HHS would not be the only two schools involved in a meaningful boundary change that addresses even half of the issues with Weatern County boundaries.

We know where Langley parents stand. Their kids deserve a school that is 1-2% FARMs and ELL. Basically, a private school in a public school system. Message received, loud and clear. So Please. Go away. Lots of other parents and kids from lots of other schools are affected. And I know you can’t fathom this, but they have opinions worth considering and concerns that need to be addressed too.
[i]
SMDH.


This should be the sticky for the entire FCPS forum.


If you go back and look at the initial post, you’ll see that the Langley discussion is directly on point. If you want to talk about non-Herndon ramifications, that’s fine, but it is you, my dear, that is in the wrong thread.


+1

Ha. So true.
Anonymous
Chantilly kids will be shifted when Centreville is finished. Probably from Poplar Tree. Centreville will also pull from Bull Run ES.

I know people at Chantilly don’t want to hear that, but no way they expand Centreville and not fill it with kids only a few miles away.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.


Bingo. Thats exactly why considering how to efficiently use available space and minimize transportation costs where possible likely makes sense.


Nah, I don’t but your zero-sum game utopia, and I’m not interested in theory-testing with my kids being your lab rats. Also, it’s a little racist/classist for you to claim that Forestville students would make Herndon High better.


First, it’s not a zero-sum game if we spend scarce capital resources expanding schools but don’t use that space because it might offend some entitled Langley mom. It’s a net negative.

Second, if Forestville kids moved back to Langley, it would increase the demand for advanced courses that Herndon is otherwise fully capable of offering. There’s nothing racist in acknowledging this. But I guess you’re fine with a situation where scheduling conflicts are more likely to be an issue at Herndon than at other schools.


DS at HMS, and even I think your Forestville efforts are pretty racist.


This is hilarious. No one on either side wants the equity crusader meddling in their schools. Go back to worrying about your own kids’ education, rather than social engineering.


DP. I am. I could give 2 flying f—k about where Langley kids end up. But something got to give. My kids education is being compromised by being at Chantilly with dozens of trailers and sitting at 125% of capacity. Dealing with that level of overcrowding is not social engineering or DEI or whatever it’s competent management.


DP. Sure, and you have a good point. But Chantilly overcrowding has nothing to do with Langley.


Wow. Talk about being myopic. In any comprehensive boundary adjustment, of course Chantilly overcrowding could affect Langley. I know you think that the other 24 HSs in FCPS revolve around Langley, but they don’t. You sound like Jan on the Brady Bunch. “Langley, Langley, Langley”. Western county boundaries are an intertwined mess— and not just at the HS level. PP is right, as an example, that Carson boundaries are a mess. Any substantive discussion and compressive solution of underenrollment at HHS ends up and boundary adjustments involving ESs and MSs as well Centerville, Chantilly, Westfield, SLHS, HHS, Langley, probably McLean and Oakton. Maybe even Madison. And I’m probably missing a school or two.

I know that in your mind only Langley counts. And sure shuffling some kids between HHS and Langley helps solve one part of one problem. But that’s a band aid over the bullet hole solution. If there is going to be an actual, substantive solution, it won’t just involve HHS and Langley. 6 or 8 or 10 other HSs will come along for the ride. Including Chantilly, because their overenrollment has to go somewhere, and some Chantilly kids do have Herndon addresses (like the many of the Oak Hill kids). For Chantilly kids closer to Carson, HHS might be one option. Or, the might go to Westfield, and some Westfield kids might go to HHS. Western County boundary cannot be solved by moving one neighborhood from one school to another. In the end, about 1/3 of FCPS HSs are involved.

I hate these threads where people are trying to have a substantive conversation and the Langley parents jump in, insult everyone, and insist that only the impact on Langley matters. It may be all that matters to you, but Langley and HHS would not be the only two schools involved in a meaningful boundary change that addresses even half of the issues with Weatern County boundaries.

We know where Langley parents stand. Their kids deserve a school that is 1-2% FARMs and ELL. Basically, a private school in a public school system. Message received, loud and clear. So Please. Go away. Lots of other parents and kids from lots of other schools are affected. And I know you can’t fathom this, but they have opinions worth considering and concerns that need to be addressed too.
[i]
SMDH.


This should be the sticky for the entire FCPS forum.


If you go back and look at the initial post, you’ll see that the Langley discussion is directly on point. If you want to talk about non-Herndon ramifications, that’s fine, but it is you, my dear, that is in the wrong thread.


Of course the Langley discussion was on point. It's the tenor of the discourse from the Langley parents, and the extent to which you insist that everything be looked at exclusively with a view towards protecting your own interests, that PP was noting.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote: Chantilly kids will be shifted when Centreville is finished. Probably from Poplar Tree. Centreville will also pull from Bull Run ES.

I know people at Chantilly don’t want to hear that, but no way they expand Centreville and not fill it with kids only a few miles away.


On the other hand, if they expand Herndon, the kids only a few miles away must continue to attend a different school over 10 miles away or civilization as we know it will come to an end.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:It's the tenor of the discourse from the Langley parents, and the extent to which you insist that everything be looked at exclusively with a view towards protecting your own interests, that PP was noting.


What's wrong with people protecting their own interests? The government certainly isn't going to do it.

The first post in this thread was someone (probably the same someone who always chimes in on these threads) hoping that Forestville gets moved to Herndon. Is the OP looking out for their best interests? Perhaps. Perhaps they're just a woke culture warrior who wants to stick it to successful people.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you listened to the CIP discussion last night, it's clear where this board wants to go:

* Update the policy on boundary changes

* Have staff come up with county-wide boundary change recommendations, rather than one-off changes proposed by individual Board members.

So no one will get moved from Forestville to Langley on a one-off basis at the behest of any single Board member. But when staff comes up with the county-wide recommendations in a few years, all bets are off.


+1. Sounds like this is truly the time that boundaries are going to be scrutinized, unless every member yesterday was spewing lies and wasting each other's time.


Good. Lots of people don’t want it— including me. My kids are out, but my house is more valuable zoned for Chantilly than Herndon. But, it needs to happen. And FFS, please let them clean up the Carson 4 way split and get all the Franklin based AAP kids back to Franklin. Its AAP center was new and tiny 10 years ago. Now, Franklin is more than capable of being a good Center. But, not until it gets capacity relief.


Of course you want things changed now. Your kids are out of school.

I’m quite certain that you advocated for disruptive change while your kids were in school, right? Right?


Please actually read posts before being mean and snarky. Now, read what I said and tell me where you got the idea that I’m “advocating” for “disruptive change”?

First— at a minimum I have my housing value on the line here. A lot of equity disappears if we get rezoned from Chantilly HS to HHS. Yes, your kids are more important than money. Then again, if our house was $150k less expensive because it was zoned for HHS, I could have used that money are sent my kids to private.

Second— reading is fundamental. Please read the bolded above I am NOT “advocating for” boundary change. I am acknowledging the reality that having one HS at 125% capacity— and rising— is not sustainable. Especially with under enrolled schools nearby. “Something needs to be done” is very different from “I want this to happen”. And it’s definitely different than “advocating” for change. Some realities are are unpleasant. This one of them.
TBH, ideally someone else gets zoned out of Chantilly. But I am aware of the fact that if there is a boundary adjustment, it could include our neighborhood. And I would be very unhappy about that. But, that doesn’t change reality. The Western County needs a boundary adjustment.

Third— a large of my response is about the Franklin vs Carson AAP Centers. Do you think a MS that brings in kids from something like 10 ESs and sends them out to 4 HSs, plus when my kids were there 80-100 kids to TJ is a good idea?

At the time my kids were in MS, one kid didn’t have a choice. Franklin didn’t have Level IV AAP. The other kid followed their sibling because Carson had worked for us and that’s where their friends went— and because the Franklin Local AAP was in its first year. No one knew how it would go at Franklin in year 1. And I had concerns about the fact that in the beginning there were only enough kid for 1 AAP classroom. That’s a very small cohort— especially in MS. You don’t mesh with some of the kids in your class and you are I for a tough two years.

As the local Franklin AAP Center stands today, 10 years later, I would absolutely send my kids there over Carson— if for no other reason than because the drop off choices were spending 45 minutes on a bus to go two miles or sitting in a Kiss and Ride line for— I kid you not— up to 30 minutes. The traffic leading into Carson was a nightmare. It was also hard, if not impossible, join any academic team, because there were so many kids gunning for TJ and trying to build a resume.

And I don’t think grandfathering current Carson students and removing Carson as an option for Franklin base school kids would be disruptive. A huge part of the reason parents dug in about keeping Carson an option was that it gave a big bump in TJ admissions. That’s no longer the case. Franklins a great school with a great reputation and I now know a number of kids who have gone through the AAP program and done well. Plus, Carson is very high pressure. Franklin seems to be better at keeping the academics strong in a less pressured environment. If I had a MS student this year, they would be at Franklin’s AAP Center, not Carson. So yes, I would be okay with that change for my kids.

Now Chantilly to HHS? Not so much. But here in the real world, some Chantilly kids have to be rezoned somewhere else. And BTW, I would t want that “somewhere else” to be Langley either. Life’s too short to make your kid attend a school when UMC kids are consider the poors and the parents are such arrogant snots.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't they take it out of the CIP?


Of course. It should have come out when they sold the Carson site and it became apparent to everyone who had waited for a decade for the new HS to materialize that it was never going to happen. Instead, they doubled down and put it in a bond a couple years ago and said they had chosen the Hutchinson site (under the prior, COVID era SB, most of whose members no one could accuse of being smart, competent, or honest with the community about challenging realities). But no one who understands Western County zoning (which I grant you isn’t a lot of people— the boundaries are a disaster) or who has watched the expansions at all the western county HSs actually believes it will happen.

But, pulling it out of the CIP without a solution for some HSs sitting at 110% capacity— or more (Chantilly)— while expanding HSs that are not over capacity (or not nearly as over capacity) is not a good look. And once they admit it’s not going to be built, they will be locked into readjusting boundaries— now— rather than following the time honored FCPS tradition of pushing messes like a western county Hs with no viable site and western county rezoning down the road for the SB to deal with. Langley and Chantilly parents and the parents of any kids moved to HHs or possibly SLHS (we don’t want IB!) are going to end up furious about any rezoning. Easier to overpromise and never deliver. Eventually, there will be a new SB and it’s no longer the current SB’s problem. Plus, the new SB can ask for “grace” (my least favorite word when spoken by anyone associated with FCPS) and time because they inherited a mess. Then they drag their feet a couple years and the cycle repeats. I’ve even watching this happen for well over a decade.



They need to hire an outside consultant and make a commitment to following their recommendations unless there is a very good, non-SES, non-DEI, non-parently pressure to avoid ELL and FARMS reason not to. Because yes, they need to aim to spread out FARMS and ELL more fairly among the schools— as long as they can do so without creating ridiculous commutes and moving kids who are a mile or two from one HS to another Hs 10 miles away in the make of equity.


That already happened. Here are their recommendations:

1. Prioritize factors determining boundary policy.
2. Define school and program capacity to ensure consistency across the division.
3. Establish boundary adjustments based on balancing the number of schools and students
for efficient use of buildings.
4. Centralize, regionalize, or duplicate programs with great demand in schools across the
district to ensure equitable access for all families.
5. Limit time students are on busses and create efficient transportation networks.
6. Create an established and well-articulated exemption process.
7. Formally evaluate school boundary policies every five years.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C9L3KG073D39/%24file/MGT%2520Boundary%2520Policy%2520Best%2520Practices%2520Review%2520Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj8lP2o5p6EAxXLGlkFHUIvBsAQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw31CVtV1-GCn7fLz7PDaGJC


I hope we didn't pay the consultants too much to come up with this.

#1 is the key, but it's what hasn't been done, yet would drive the process.

#2 is largely moot, as FCPS already has a way to define and quantify "design capacity" and "program capacity" consistently across schools.

#3 is unclear - if the recommendation is to now prioritize the utilization of existing capacity, it will be unpopular and also entirely inconsistent with FCPS's past behavior.

## 4 and 6 - FCPS will say it already does or has this.

#5 - What's the recommended outer limit and the implications thereof (if, say, no one should be on a bus to a neighborhood school for over 30 minutes)?

#7 sounds good, but it assumes a degree of efficiency on the part of FCPS and the School Board that is belied by the debacles of the last 15 years when it comes to boundaries and facilities planning.


A common sense a substantive answer. So, immediately I know you are not a Langley parent. And I agree #1 is the key. But, I also think that #1 is never going to happen. It’s easy to say “we need priorities”. Putting those priorities in writing knowing that it will make at least some parents angry and that some parent group will sue is a different matter entirely.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't they take it out of the CIP?


Of course. It should have come out when they sold the Carson site and it became apparent to everyone who had waited for a decade for the new HS to materialize that it was never going to happen. Instead, they doubled down and put it in a bond a couple years ago and said they had chosen the Hutchinson site (under the prior, COVID era SB, most of whose members no one could accuse of being smart, competent, or honest with the community about challenging realities). But no one who understands Western County zoning (which I grant you isn’t a lot of people— the boundaries are a disaster) or who has watched the expansions at all the western county HSs actually believes it will happen.

But, pulling it out of the CIP without a solution for some HSs sitting at 110% capacity— or more (Chantilly)— while expanding HSs that are not over capacity (or not nearly as over capacity) is not a good look. And once they admit it’s not going to be built, they will be locked into readjusting boundaries— now— rather than following the time honored FCPS tradition of pushing messes like a western county Hs with no viable site and western county rezoning down the road for the SB to deal with. Langley and Chantilly parents and the parents of any kids moved to HHs or possibly SLHS (we don’t want IB!) are going to end up furious about any rezoning. Easier to overpromise and never deliver. Eventually, there will be a new SB and it’s no longer the current SB’s problem. Plus, the new SB can ask for “grace” (my least favorite word when spoken by anyone associated with FCPS) and time because they inherited a mess. Then they drag their feet a couple years and the cycle repeats. I’ve even watching this happen for well over a decade.



They need to hire an outside consultant and make a commitment to following their recommendations unless there is a very good, non-SES, non-DEI, non-parently pressure to avoid ELL and FARMS reason not to. Because yes, they need to aim to spread out FARMS and ELL more fairly among the schools— as long as they can do so without creating ridiculous commutes and moving kids who are a mile or two from one HS to another Hs 10 miles away in the make of equity.


That already happened. Here are their recommendations:

1. Prioritize factors determining boundary policy.
2. Define school and program capacity to ensure consistency across the division.
3. Establish boundary adjustments based on balancing the number of schools and students
for efficient use of buildings.
4. Centralize, regionalize, or duplicate programs with great demand in schools across the
district to ensure equitable access for all families.
5. Limit time students are on busses and create efficient transportation networks.
6. Create an established and well-articulated exemption process.
7. Formally evaluate school boundary policies every five years.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C9L3KG073D39/%24file/MGT%2520Boundary%2520Policy%2520Best%2520Practices%2520Review%2520Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj8lP2o5p6EAxXLGlkFHUIvBsAQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw31CVtV1-GCn7fLz7PDaGJC


I hope we didn't pay the consultants too much to come up with this.

#1 is the key, but it's what hasn't been done, yet would drive the process.

#2 is largely moot, as FCPS already has a way to define and quantify "design capacity" and "program capacity" consistently across schools.

#3 is unclear - if the recommendation is to now prioritize the utilization of existing capacity, it will be unpopular and also entirely inconsistent with FCPS's past behavior.

## 4 and 6 - FCPS will say it already does or has this.

#5 - What's the recommended outer limit and the implications thereof (if, say, no one should be on a bus to a neighborhood school for over 30 minutes)?

#7 sounds good, but it assumes a degree of efficiency on the part of FCPS and the School Board that is belied by the debacles of the last 15 years when it comes to boundaries and facilities planning.


A common sense a substantive answer. So, immediately I know you are not a Langley parent. And I agree #1 is the key. But, I also think that #1 is never going to happen. It’s easy to say “we need priorities”. Putting those priorities in writing knowing that it will make at least some parents angry and that some parent group will sue is a different matter entirely.


Vapid drivel, so we know you are an equity pusher.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's the tenor of the discourse from the Langley parents, and the extent to which you insist that everything be looked at exclusively with a view towards protecting your own interests, that PP was noting.


What's wrong with people protecting their own interests? The government certainly isn't going to do it.

The first post in this thread was someone (probably the same someone who always chimes in on these threads) hoping that Forestville gets moved to Herndon. Is the OP looking out for their best interests? Perhaps. Perhaps they're just a woke culture warrior who wants to stick it to successful people.


The first post in the thread allows for the possibility that the best use of the additional capacity at Herndon is to use it for the anticipated growth near the new Silver Line stations that would otherwise feed into Westfield.

Note that if part of Westfield moved to Herndon, Westfield might have more capacity to handle overcrowding at Chantilly, if for whatever reason it made more sense to move Chantilly kids to Westfield than to Centreville, which will also be expanded.

But you're so paranoid and intent on squelching any discussion about a potential Langley boundary change that you assumed the worst and went from there, guns blazing and voices raised, as always.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't they take it out of the CIP?


Of course. It should have come out when they sold the Carson site and it became apparent to everyone who had waited for a decade for the new HS to materialize that it was never going to happen. Instead, they doubled down and put it in a bond a couple years ago and said they had chosen the Hutchinson site (under the prior, COVID era SB, most of whose members no one could accuse of being smart, competent, or honest with the community about challenging realities). But no one who understands Western County zoning (which I grant you isn’t a lot of people— the boundaries are a disaster) or who has watched the expansions at all the western county HSs actually believes it will happen.

But, pulling it out of the CIP without a solution for some HSs sitting at 110% capacity— or more (Chantilly)— while expanding HSs that are not over capacity (or not nearly as over capacity) is not a good look. And once they admit it’s not going to be built, they will be locked into readjusting boundaries— now— rather than following the time honored FCPS tradition of pushing messes like a western county Hs with no viable site and western county rezoning down the road for the SB to deal with. Langley and Chantilly parents and the parents of any kids moved to HHs or possibly SLHS (we don’t want IB!) are going to end up furious about any rezoning. Easier to overpromise and never deliver. Eventually, there will be a new SB and it’s no longer the current SB’s problem. Plus, the new SB can ask for “grace” (my least favorite word when spoken by anyone associated with FCPS) and time because they inherited a mess. Then they drag their feet a couple years and the cycle repeats. I’ve even watching this happen for well over a decade.



They need to hire an outside consultant and make a commitment to following their recommendations unless there is a very good, non-SES, non-DEI, non-parently pressure to avoid ELL and FARMS reason not to. Because yes, they need to aim to spread out FARMS and ELL more fairly among the schools— as long as they can do so without creating ridiculous commutes and moving kids who are a mile or two from one HS to another Hs 10 miles away in the make of equity.


That already happened. Here are their recommendations:

1. Prioritize factors determining boundary policy.
2. Define school and program capacity to ensure consistency across the division.
3. Establish boundary adjustments based on balancing the number of schools and students
for efficient use of buildings.
4. Centralize, regionalize, or duplicate programs with great demand in schools across the
district to ensure equitable access for all families.
5. Limit time students are on busses and create efficient transportation networks.
6. Create an established and well-articulated exemption process.
7. Formally evaluate school boundary policies every five years.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C9L3KG073D39/%24file/MGT%2520Boundary%2520Policy%2520Best%2520Practices%2520Review%2520Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj8lP2o5p6EAxXLGlkFHUIvBsAQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw31CVtV1-GCn7fLz7PDaGJC


I hope we didn't pay the consultants too much to come up with this.

#1 is the key, but it's what hasn't been done, yet would drive the process.

#2 is largely moot, as FCPS already has a way to define and quantify "design capacity" and "program capacity" consistently across schools.

#3 is unclear - if the recommendation is to now prioritize the utilization of existing capacity, it will be unpopular and also entirely inconsistent with FCPS's past behavior.

## 4 and 6 - FCPS will say it already does or has this.

#5 - What's the recommended outer limit and the implications thereof (if, say, no one should be on a bus to a neighborhood school for over 30 minutes)?

#7 sounds good, but it assumes a degree of efficiency on the part of FCPS and the School Board that is belied by the debacles of the last 15 years when it comes to boundaries and facilities planning.


A common sense a substantive answer. So, immediately I know you are not a Langley parent. And I agree #1 is the key. But, I also think that #1 is never going to happen. It’s easy to say “we need priorities”. Putting those priorities in writing knowing that it will make at least some parents angry and that some parent group will sue is a different matter entirely.


Vapid drivel, so we know you are an equity pusher.


+1. She’s a real neighbor hater, that one.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.


Bingo. Thats exactly why considering how to efficiently use available space and minimize transportation costs where possible likely makes sense.


Nah, I don’t but your zero-sum game utopia, and I’m not interested in theory-testing with my kids being your lab rats. Also, it’s a little racist/classist for you to claim that Forestville students would make Herndon High better.


First, it’s not a zero-sum game if we spend scarce capital resources expanding schools but don’t use that space because it might offend some entitled Langley mom. It’s a net negative.

Second, if Forestville kids moved back to Langley, it would increase the demand for advanced courses that Herndon is otherwise fully capable of offering. There’s nothing racist in acknowledging this. But I guess you’re fine with a situation where scheduling conflicts are more likely to be an issue at Herndon than at other schools.


DS at HMS, and even I think your Forestville efforts are pretty racist.


This is hilarious. No one on either side wants the equity crusader meddling in their schools. Go back to worrying about your own kids’ education, rather than social engineering.


DP. I am. I could give 2 flying f—k about where Langley kids end up. But something got to give. My kids education is being compromised by being at Chantilly with dozens of trailers and sitting at 125% of capacity. Dealing with that level of overcrowding is not social engineering or DEI or whatever it’s competent management.


DP. Sure, and you have a good point. But Chantilly overcrowding has nothing to do with Langley.


Wow. Talk about being myopic. In any comprehensive boundary adjustment, of course Chantilly overcrowding could affect Langley. I know you think that the other 24 HSs in FCPS revolve around Langley, but they don’t. You sound like Jan on the Brady Bunch. “Langley, Langley, Langley”. Western county boundaries are an intertwined mess— and not just at the HS level. PP is right, as an example, that Carson boundaries are a mess. Any substantive discussion and compressive solution of underenrollment at HHS ends up and boundary adjustments involving ESs and MSs as well Centerville, Chantilly, Westfield, SLHS, HHS, Langley, probably McLean and Oakton. Maybe even Madison. And I’m probably missing a school or two.

I know that in your mind only Langley counts. And sure shuffling some kids between HHS and Langley helps solve one part of one problem. But that’s a band aid over the bullet hole solution. If there is going to be an actual, substantive solution, it won’t just involve HHS and Langley. 6 or 8 or 10 other HSs will come along for the ride. Including Chantilly, because their overenrollment has to go somewhere, and some Chantilly kids do have Herndon addresses (like the many of the Oak Hill kids). For Chantilly kids closer to Carson, HHS might be one option. Or, the might go to Westfield, and some Westfield kids might go to HHS. Western County boundary cannot be solved by moving one neighborhood from one school to another. In the end, about 1/3 of FCPS HSs are involved.

I hate these threads where people are trying to have a substantive conversation and the Langley parents jump in, insult everyone, and insist that only the impact on Langley matters. It may be all that matters to you, but Langley and HHS would not be the only two schools involved in a meaningful boundary change that addresses even half of the issues with Weatern County boundaries.

We know where Langley parents stand. Their kids deserve a school that is 1-2% FARMs and ELL. Basically, a private school in a public school system. Message received, loud and clear. So Please. Go away. Lots of other parents and kids from lots of other schools are affected. And I know you can’t fathom this, but they have opinions worth considering and concerns that need to be addressed too.
[i]
SMDH.


This should be the sticky for the entire FCPS forum.


If you go back and look at the initial post, you’ll see that the Langley discussion is directly on point. If you want to talk about non-Herndon ramifications, that’s fine, but it is you, my dear, that is in the wrong thread.


Because addressing underenrollment at Herndon only involves Langley? Give me a break. You rezone some Langley kids to Herndon and most Langley parent would just turn around and send their kids to a private school instead of HHS. If you actually want to being HHS up to capacity, the solution is going to be more complicated than just rezoning 1-2 neighborhoods.

Langley, Langley, Langley.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No offense but it’s not the schools that are good, it’s the kids. If you redistrict Langley kids to another school, the other school will increase by that amount. Schools are such a tiny part of academic achievement (meaning they all teach roughly the same). It’s mostly parents.


Bingo. Thats exactly why considering how to efficiently use available space and minimize transportation costs where possible likely makes sense.


Nah, I don’t but your zero-sum game utopia, and I’m not interested in theory-testing with my kids being your lab rats. Also, it’s a little racist/classist for you to claim that Forestville students would make Herndon High better.


First, it’s not a zero-sum game if we spend scarce capital resources expanding schools but don’t use that space because it might offend some entitled Langley mom. It’s a net negative.

Second, if Forestville kids moved back to Langley, it would increase the demand for advanced courses that Herndon is otherwise fully capable of offering. There’s nothing racist in acknowledging this. But I guess you’re fine with a situation where scheduling conflicts are more likely to be an issue at Herndon than at other schools.


DS at HMS, and even I think your Forestville efforts are pretty racist.


This is hilarious. No one on either side wants the equity crusader meddling in their schools. Go back to worrying about your own kids’ education, rather than social engineering.


DP. I am. I could give 2 flying f—k about where Langley kids end up. But something got to give. My kids education is being compromised by being at Chantilly with dozens of trailers and sitting at 125% of capacity. Dealing with that level of overcrowding is not social engineering or DEI or whatever it’s competent management.


DP. Sure, and you have a good point. But Chantilly overcrowding has nothing to do with Langley.


Wow. Talk about being myopic. In any comprehensive boundary adjustment, of course Chantilly overcrowding could affect Langley. I know you think that the other 24 HSs in FCPS revolve around Langley, but they don’t. You sound like Jan on the Brady Bunch. “Langley, Langley, Langley”. Western county boundaries are an intertwined mess— and not just at the HS level. PP is right, as an example, that Carson boundaries are a mess. Any substantive discussion and compressive solution of underenrollment at HHS ends up and boundary adjustments involving ESs and MSs as well Centerville, Chantilly, Westfield, SLHS, HHS, Langley, probably McLean and Oakton. Maybe even Madison. And I’m probably missing a school or two.

I know that in your mind only Langley counts. And sure shuffling some kids between HHS and Langley helps solve one part of one problem. But that’s a band aid over the bullet hole solution. If there is going to be an actual, substantive solution, it won’t just involve HHS and Langley. 6 or 8 or 10 other HSs will come along for the ride. Including Chantilly, because their overenrollment has to go somewhere, and some Chantilly kids do have Herndon addresses (like the many of the Oak Hill kids). For Chantilly kids closer to Carson, HHS might be one option. Or, the might go to Westfield, and some Westfield kids might go to HHS. Western County boundary cannot be solved by moving one neighborhood from one school to another. In the end, about 1/3 of FCPS HSs are involved.

I hate these threads where people are trying to have a substantive conversation and the Langley parents jump in, insult everyone, and insist that only the impact on Langley matters. It may be all that matters to you, but Langley and HHS would not be the only two schools involved in a meaningful boundary change that addresses even half of the issues with Weatern County boundaries.

We know where Langley parents stand. Their kids deserve a school that is 1-2% FARMs and ELL. Basically, a private school in a public school system. Message received, loud and clear. So Please. Go away. Lots of other parents and kids from lots of other schools are affected. And I know you can’t fathom this, but they have opinions worth considering and concerns that need to be addressed too.
[i]
SMDH.


This should be the sticky for the entire FCPS forum.


If you go back and look at the initial post, you’ll see that the Langley discussion is directly on point. If you want to talk about non-Herndon ramifications, that’s fine, but it is you, my dear, that is in the wrong thread.


Insulting people and posting snarky responses is not a discussion.
Forum Index » Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS)
Go to: