NYT Article on Open Marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but one of the major tenets of marriage is "forsaking all others."

It's just a way to feel good about cheating. Don't take it too seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how the Sister Wives reality show played out to see how true long term polyamory works. The husband and his first three wives claimed they had a happy and equitable partnership. Once the husband found his fourth wife, he fell madly in love with her and said she was his 'person'. He moved in with her exclusively and tried to legally divorce a different wife so wife 4 could be the legal wife. The other 3 wives had to work, while wife 4 didn't. Once he found someone he truly bonded to, the other relationships were neglected to the point that wives 1-3 all eventually left him. He's still with wife 4 and has no plans to seek another woman. When it comes to relationships, I truly believe humans can only emotionally bond with one person at a time.

This is why so many poly people have a "primary". All the poly people I know are married with children and their spouse is their partner. They just see other people. Now, they might care about and respect those other people, but they are lower priorities, quite literally called "secondaries". There will always be a hierarchy. For types like this, I guess polyamory fulfills the need for variety but also gives them the stability of having a life partner.

Secondaries complain. Or even if they're not actually complaining, they're voicing their feelings.

Just because there's a hierarchy that at one point in time is agreed upon by those involved means it's sustainably smooth sailing.

+1, I have known a number of poly couples over almost two decades. There are phases of these relationships that look very stable and if you take a snapshot during one of those phases, it's easy to say "oh yeah, they've figured out marriage and solved the problems inherent in monogamy." But a snapshot is not a marriage.

All but one of the polyamorous couples I know divorced, and the one who is not divorced closed their marriage. I have also known many of their "secondaries" and one HUGE problem with polyamory is the way it often treats secondaries as semi-people, without making much room for them to want more from life or their relationship, to change over time, or to have normal human emotions like jealousy, loneliness, or insecurity. I think a lot of poly couples treat secondaries like manic pixie dream girls (or boys) -- these mythical people whose needs and egos will always be second to those of the primary couple.

Polyamory as a longterm relationship choice strikes me as immature, selfish, and often exploitative of the other people who are brought into the relationship. I have never seen it function over the long term in a way that makes it look remotely appealing. Best case scenario, it's a phase some people go through during a rough patch in their marriage (which often coincides with a rough patch in their lives generally -- people get restless and unhappy for all kinds of reasons that don't have much to do with their sex lives), they learn something from it, and then they move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but one of the major tenets of marriage is "forsaking all others."

It's just a way to feel good about cheating. Don't take it too seriously.

lol, it’s not cheating if both partners agree to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how the Sister Wives reality show played out to see how true long term polyamory works. The husband and his first three wives claimed they had a happy and equitable partnership. Once the husband found his fourth wife, he fell madly in love with her and said she was his 'person'. He moved in with her exclusively and tried to legally divorce a different wife so wife 4 could be the legal wife. The other 3 wives had to work, while wife 4 didn't. Once he found someone he truly bonded to, the other relationships were neglected to the point that wives 1-3 all eventually left him. He's still with wife 4 and has no plans to seek another woman. When it comes to relationships, I truly believe humans can only emotionally bond with one person at a time.

This is why so many poly people have a "primary". All the poly people I know are married with children and their spouse is their partner. They just see other people. Now, they might care about and respect those other people, but they are lower priorities, quite literally called "secondaries". There will always be a hierarchy. For types like this, I guess polyamory fulfills the need for variety but also gives them the stability of having a life partner.

Secondaries complain. Or even if they're not actually complaining, they're voicing their feelings.

Just because there's a hierarchy that at one point in time is agreed upon by those involved means it's sustainably smooth sailing.

+1, I have known a number of poly couples over almost two decades. There are phases of these relationships that look very stable and if you take a snapshot during one of those phases, it's easy to say "oh yeah, they've figured out marriage and solved the problems inherent in monogamy." But a snapshot is not a marriage.

All but one of the polyamorous couples I know divorced, and the one who is not divorced closed their marriage. I have also known many of their "secondaries" and one HUGE problem with polyamory is the way it often treats secondaries as semi-people, without making much room for them to want more from life or their relationship, to change over time, or to have normal human emotions like jealousy, loneliness, or insecurity. I think a lot of poly couples treat secondaries like manic pixie dream girls (or boys) -- these mythical people whose needs and egos will always be second to those of the primary couple.

Polyamory as a longterm relationship choice strikes me as immature, selfish, and often exploitative of the other people who are brought into the relationship. I have never seen it function over the long term in a way that makes it look remotely appealing. Best case scenario, it's a phase some people go through during a rough patch in their marriage (which often coincides with a rough patch in their lives generally -- people get restless and unhappy for all kinds of reasons that don't have much to do with their sex lives), they learn something from it, and then they move on.

Polyamory seems like it would attract couples with one or more narcissistic partners who is good at attracting “secondaries.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but one of the major tenets of marriage is "forsaking all others."

It's just a way to feel good about cheating. Don't take it too seriously.

lol, it’s not cheating if both partners agree to it.

It’s worse than cheating if one partner is pressured into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but one of the major tenets of marriage is "forsaking all others."

It's just a way to feel good about cheating. Don't take it too seriously.

lol, it’s not cheating if both partners agree to it.

It’s worse than cheating if one partner is pressured into it.

Everyone has to stand up for what they want in a marriage. There’s a door if you want to leave.

[Anonymous]

Some people will just NEVER have enough attention. It's not like the world needs a PSA on this topic.

As a society and as individuals we are all well aware of individuals like the author. And I think, for the most part, the opinions on her choices are pretty unanimously negative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but one of the major tenets of marriage is "forsaking all others."

It's just a way to feel good about cheating. Don't take it too seriously.

lol, it’s not cheating if both partners agree to it.

It’s worse than cheating if one partner is pressured into it.

I'm not sure I agree with this. But I do agree with the concept of pressure. Couples might say, "We arrived at this decision to open up together."

That's almost never true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how the Sister Wives reality show played out to see how true long term polyamory works. The husband and his first three wives claimed they had a happy and equitable partnership. Once the husband found his fourth wife, he fell madly in love with her and said she was his 'person'. He moved in with her exclusively and tried to legally divorce a different wife so wife 4 could be the legal wife. The other 3 wives had to work, while wife 4 didn't. Once he found someone he truly bonded to, the other relationships were neglected to the point that wives 1-3 all eventually left him. He's still with wife 4 and has no plans to seek another woman. When it comes to relationships, I truly believe humans can only emotionally bond with one person at a time.

This is why so many poly people have a "primary". All the poly people I know are married with children and their spouse is their partner. They just see other people. Now, they might care about and respect those other people, but they are lower priorities, quite literally called "secondaries". There will always be a hierarchy. For types like this, I guess polyamory fulfills the need for variety but also gives them the stability of having a life partner.

Secondaries complain. Or even if they're not actually complaining, they're voicing their feelings.

Just because there's a hierarchy that at one point in time is agreed upon by those involved means it's sustainably smooth sailing.

+1, I have known a number of poly couples over almost two decades. There are phases of these relationships that look very stable and if you take a snapshot during one of those phases, it's easy to say "oh yeah, they've figured out marriage and solved the problems inherent in monogamy." But a snapshot is not a marriage.

All but one of the polyamorous couples I know divorced, and the one who is not divorced closed their marriage. I have also known many of their "secondaries" and one HUGE problem with polyamory is the way it often treats secondaries as semi-people, without making much room for them to want more from life or their relationship, to change over time, or to have normal human emotions like jealousy, loneliness, or insecurity. I think a lot of poly couples treat secondaries like manic pixie dream girls (or boys) -- these mythical people whose needs and egos will always be second to those of the primary couple.

Polyamory as a longterm relationship choice strikes me as immature, selfish, and often exploitative of the other people who are brought into the relationship. I have never seen it function over the long term in a way that makes it look remotely appealing. Best case scenario, it's a phase some people go through during a rough patch in their marriage (which often coincides with a rough patch in their lives generally -- people get restless and unhappy for all kinds of reasons that don't have much to do with their sex lives), they learn something from it, and then they move on.

I dunno, what you described to me just sounds like the affair phase that a lot of marriages go through, but much better? At least honest and communicated about? Marriages are long with a lot of phases. Affairs are extremely common. I don’t really want an open marriage but if my DH needs a girlfriend phase, I would rather do it openly than with deception whether we still end up divorced or not. If he did it secretly I feel like we’d HAVE to get divorced. If he came and asked me for it I don’t know where the conversation or the marriage would end up but I certainly prefer the unknown on this front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but one of the major tenets of marriage is "forsaking all others."

It's just a way to feel good about cheating. Don't take it too seriously.

lol, it’s not cheating if both partners agree to it.

It’s worse than cheating if one partner is pressured into it.

Everyone has to stand up for what they want in a marriage. There’s a door if you want to leave.

I mean, generally healthy marriages are not approached like business negotiations between adversaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but one of the major tenets of marriage is "forsaking all others."

It's just a way to feel good about cheating. Don't take it too seriously.

lol, it’s not cheating if both partners agree to it.

It’s worse than cheating if one partner is pressured into it.

I'm not sure I agree with this. But I do agree with the concept of pressure. Couples might say, "We arrived at this decision to open up together."

That's almost never true.

At least with cheating the cheater is somewhat trying to protect their partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how the Sister Wives reality show played out to see how true long term polyamory works. The husband and his first three wives claimed they had a happy and equitable partnership. Once the husband found his fourth wife, he fell madly in love with her and said she was his 'person'. He moved in with her exclusively and tried to legally divorce a different wife so wife 4 could be the legal wife. The other 3 wives had to work, while wife 4 didn't. Once he found someone he truly bonded to, the other relationships were neglected to the point that wives 1-3 all eventually left him. He's still with wife 4 and has no plans to seek another woman. When it comes to relationships, I truly believe humans can only emotionally bond with one person at a time.

This is why so many poly people have a "primary". All the poly people I know are married with children and their spouse is their partner. They just see other people. Now, they might care about and respect those other people, but they are lower priorities, quite literally called "secondaries". There will always be a hierarchy. For types like this, I guess polyamory fulfills the need for variety but also gives them the stability of having a life partner.

Secondaries complain. Or even if they're not actually complaining, they're voicing their feelings.

Just because there's a hierarchy that at one point in time is agreed upon by those involved means it's sustainably smooth sailing.

+1, I have known a number of poly couples over almost two decades. There are phases of these relationships that look very stable and if you take a snapshot during one of those phases, it's easy to say "oh yeah, they've figured out marriage and solved the problems inherent in monogamy." But a snapshot is not a marriage.

All but one of the polyamorous couples I know divorced, and the one who is not divorced closed their marriage. I have also known many of their "secondaries" and one HUGE problem with polyamory is the way it often treats secondaries as semi-people, without making much room for them to want more from life or their relationship, to change over time, or to have normal human emotions like jealousy, loneliness, or insecurity. I think a lot of poly couples treat secondaries like manic pixie dream girls (or boys) -- these mythical people whose needs and egos will always be second to those of the primary couple.

Polyamory as a longterm relationship choice strikes me as immature, selfish, and often exploitative of the other people who are brought into the relationship. I have never seen it function over the long term in a way that makes it look remotely appealing. Best case scenario, it's a phase some people go through during a rough patch in their marriage (which often coincides with a rough patch in their lives generally -- people get restless and unhappy for all kinds of reasons that don't have much to do with their sex lives), they learn something from it, and then they move on.

I dunno, what you described to me just sounds like the affair phase that a lot of marriages go through, but much better? At least honest and communicated about? Marriages are long with a lot of phases. Affairs are extremely common. I don’t really want an open marriage but if my DH needs a girlfriend phase, I would rather do it openly than with deception whether we still end up divorced or not. If he did it secretly I feel like we’d HAVE to get divorced. If he came and asked me for it I don’t know where the conversation or the marriage would end up but I certainly prefer the unknown on this front.

but the open part is what is often psychologically unhealthy. I know an “open” couple whose marriage is imploding and it sounds way more toxic than a discovered affair. and of course, polyamory is no way to save or improve upon a marriage, even if it’s not as bad as an affair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women are finally enjoying what men have always enjoyed. I don’t about some of you, but it’s common knowledge that my dad has his mistresses and of course my mom turned a blind eye. Men have always had open marriages but it was only one way. Now women are at least being “nice” and asking their husbands for an open marriage.

My great grandma had 2 kids from a different father in the 1910's. I found out through DNA.

Could have been rape or an adoption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, but one of the major tenets of marriage is "forsaking all others."

It's just a way to feel good about cheating. Don't take it too seriously.

lol, it’s not cheating if both partners agree to it.

It’s worse than cheating if one partner is pressured into it.

Everyone has to stand up for what they want in a marriage. There’s a door if you want to leave.

I mean, generally healthy marriages are not approached like business negotiations between adversaries.

The fact that that’s what you took away from my statement tells me you have a closed mind about this. The point is, everyone has their limits. If you allow someone to push yours, then you’re complicit in that. But some people love being victims. Shrug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at how the Sister Wives reality show played out to see how true long term polyamory works. The husband and his first three wives claimed they had a happy and equitable partnership. Once the husband found his fourth wife, he fell madly in love with her and said she was his 'person'. He moved in with her exclusively and tried to legally divorce a different wife so wife 4 could be the legal wife. The other 3 wives had to work, while wife 4 didn't. Once he found someone he truly bonded to, the other relationships were neglected to the point that wives 1-3 all eventually left him. He's still with wife 4 and has no plans to seek another woman. When it comes to relationships, I truly believe humans can only emotionally bond with one person at a time.

This is why so many poly people have a "primary". All the poly people I know are married with children and their spouse is their partner. They just see other people. Now, they might care about and respect those other people, but they are lower priorities, quite literally called "secondaries". There will always be a hierarchy. For types like this, I guess polyamory fulfills the need for variety but also gives them the stability of having a life partner.

Secondaries complain. Or even if they're not actually complaining, they're voicing their feelings.

Just because there's a hierarchy that at one point in time is agreed upon by those involved means it's sustainably smooth sailing.

+1, I have known a number of poly couples over almost two decades. There are phases of these relationships that look very stable and if you take a snapshot during one of those phases, it's easy to say "oh yeah, they've figured out marriage and solved the problems inherent in monogamy." But a snapshot is not a marriage.

All but one of the polyamorous couples I know divorced, and the one who is not divorced closed their marriage. I have also known many of their "secondaries" and one HUGE problem with polyamory is the way it often treats secondaries as semi-people, without making much room for them to want more from life or their relationship, to change over time, or to have normal human emotions like jealousy, loneliness, or insecurity. I think a lot of poly couples treat secondaries like manic pixie dream girls (or boys) -- these mythical people whose needs and egos will always be second to those of the primary couple.

Polyamory as a longterm relationship choice strikes me as immature, selfish, and often exploitative of the other people who are brought into the relationship. I have never seen it function over the long term in a way that makes it look remotely appealing. Best case scenario, it's a phase some people go through during a rough patch in their marriage (which often coincides with a rough patch in their lives generally -- people get restless and unhappy for all kinds of reasons that don't have much to do with their sex lives), they learn something from it, and then they move on.

Polyamory seems like it would attract couples with one or more narcissistic partners who is good at attracting “secondaries.”

PP here and while I don't think this is always true, I know it definitely can be.

For many years, the most "successful" polyamorous couple in my circle was a married couple who seemed to have figured it out. One spouse had one long term secondary. The other spouse had several long term secondaries. But they both seemed very content, their secondaries seemed happy, and I think a lot of us were like "I don't know, maybe their way really IS better."

Cut to a decade later. Turns out the partner with several long term secondaries has a serious personality disorder that resulted not only in some huge drama in several of the relationships they were maintaining (both marriage and secondary relationships) but this huge and alarming impropriety at work that involved some major boundary violations (think multiple sexual harassment allegations). Then of course after all this blew up, they got an official diagnosis for their personality disorder (bipolar) and this then became the scapegoat for everything -- "I can't help it, I'm bipolar." Couple is now separated but also operating on just one income because the job implosion has made the other partner almost unemployable. Privately, I am not even sure that bipolar diagnosis is correct because based on personal interaction with the person in question, I have become convinced this might be the one true narcissist I've met in my life. But they are "covert" and have an amazing ability to manipulate other people's emotions via guilt and sympathy. I now look at those multiple long term secondary relationships and think it's highly likely those people were being manipulated and exploited by this person.

But yeah, for a few years in there, it really seemed like this couple had figured it out! Turns out they had found an arrangement that masked and fed one person's raging mental health issues which I think otherwise would have been revealed (and treated) much, much earlier.

Most poly relationships I know of don't have quite that much drama, but watching that unfold made me realize that for all its faults, there's a simplicity to monogamy that forces people to be more honest with themselves and each other. Even when cheating occurs, at least everyone knows what cheating IS. Polyamory really confuses a lot of issues and I think winds up concealing a whole host of problems and passing them off as "lifestyle choices."