12 yo daughter groped at school...at least twice

[Anonymous]

She should punch him. HARD. Perhaps a well-targeted kick. If they attempt to discipline her, , threaten to sue the school for failing to protect her. I have a daughter and two sons. If a girl punched my son for groping her, I would tell him he deserved it. Zero tolerance on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

This wouldn't surprise me. DMV school systems don't have the expertise or resources to do this right so OP will need to go in eyes open.

I'm the person speaking up for Restorative Justice, but nothing in OP's posts even says RJ is on the table so this isn't really about what happens in OP's case. I was just replying to someone who suggested that RJ happen or was being snarky about RJ being an excuse the school might use. But OP hasn't mentioned it at all and I wasn't telling OP to try to do it.

This was obvious to me but I appreciate the clarification. Going in eyes open will be necessary either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

I've worked in a court that practiced it. I've seen families of murder victims and actual rape victims themselves swear by it when it was all over. I understand that you don't believe in it, but don't for a moment try to speak for all the victims who said it actually was healing & effective when they thought nothing would ever heal them. If a family of someone murdered or someone raped by the defendant feel that way, and the defendant once they do their time doesn't re-offend anymore, that is effective more so than most of what happens every day in this country. Problem is it's very very hard to consistently do it right and you have to constantly be training staff and re-training staff.

There is a big difference between a convicted murderer doing it through a court and an accused grouper using it as a way to escape punishment

You're proving how little you know about this. Just about everyone caught doing something they weren't supposed to do and that they're getting in trouble for is looking for a way out. It would never be effective in schools (when done right) if "an accused groper wanted to use it to escape punishment" - Newsflash: EVERY kid accused of something they know they did wants to escape punishment. Maybe read up on Restorative Justice and how it is supposed to work before you try to dismiss it while showing you know almost nothing about it. When done right... it works very well. It is very hard to do it right, so it's hard to have as "The go-to consequence" in an overwhelmed school system that can't commit the staff & time to doing it well all the time.

So is restorative justice the new communism? That’s never been implemented correctly so we’ve never seen how good it could be?

+1 exactly, it's just a ridiculous talking point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op I was groped at that age. A boy came up behind me and grabbed my breasts. I told my parents, who called his parents (really small town; I could have happily crawled into a pit) they also called the principal.

He was suspended for three days and his parents brought him over to apologize. Open up another pit.

So looking back are you glad it was addressed, or are you saying you were so mortified you wished your parents hadn't acted? It's not clear from what you wrote.

Oh I was glad they acted! Also mortified. I was not a popular kid, bullying was common. I felt like I finally fought back.

I'm glad you felt that way! And hopefully now you are able to keep fighting back when you need to. Or more than before, it's all progress!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

I've worked in a court that practiced it. I've seen families of murder victims and actual rape victims themselves swear by it when it was all over. I understand that you don't believe in it, but don't for a moment try to speak for all the victims who said it actually was healing & effective when they thought nothing would ever heal them. If a family of someone murdered or someone raped by the defendant feel that way, and the defendant once they do their time doesn't re-offend anymore, that is effective more so than most of what happens every day in this country. Problem is it's very very hard to consistently do it right and you have to constantly be training staff and re-training staff.

There is a big difference between a convicted murderer doing it through a court and an accused grouper using it as a way to escape punishment

You're proving how little you know about this. Just about everyone caught doing something they weren't supposed to do and that they're getting in trouble for is looking for a way out. It would never be effective in schools (when done right) if "an accused groper wanted to use it to escape punishment" - Newsflash: EVERY kid accused of something they know they did wants to escape punishment. Maybe read up on Restorative Justice and how it is supposed to work before you try to dismiss it while showing you know almost nothing about it. When done right... it works very well. It is very hard to do it right, so it's hard to have as "The go-to consequence" in an overwhelmed school system that can't commit the staff & time to doing it well all the time.

So is restorative justice the new communism? That’s never been implemented correctly so we’ve never seen how good it could be?

+1 exactly, it's just a ridiculous talking point

Is selective reading the new trend? There seem to be 2 of us saying Restorative Justice works when done well, that it's hard to do well, but that we have SEEN IT DONE WELL and there is plenty of studies and findings about it that show it's effective. I've seen it work shockingly well in a court program and in schools.

But all of you intent on only taking away that it never works or it has never been done right so no one knows if it works, I seriously doubt you're out there finding better solutions for school discipline problems so not gonna worry that you choose ignorance about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op I was groped at that age. A boy came up behind me and grabbed my breasts. I told my parents, who called his parents (really small town; I could have happily crawled into a pit) they also called the principal.

He was suspended for three days and his parents brought him over to apologize. Open up another pit.

So looking back are you glad it was addressed, or are you saying you were so mortified you wished your parents hadn't acted? It's not clear from what you wrote.

Oh I was glad they acted! Also mortified. I was not a popular kid, bullying was common. I felt like I finally fought back.

I'm glad you felt that way! And hopefully now you are able to keep fighting back when you need to. Or more than before, it's all progress!

I don't put up with much now. I have far more self confidence.

Op I hope your daughter comes out of this ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If she told a teacher, the school already knows

Same kid doing the groping? Peace order

Peace orders do nothing. My kid had multiple juvenile harassment charges against a boy and still had to switch schools as they do nothing to help. They probably have at least 30-40 peace orders per school.

[Anonymous]

Cousin had terrible groping shaming incident happen to her in middle school. She struggled with depression, self harm...and eventually gender dysphoria. She is now living as a Trans man (not sure if this is related to the earlier episode of groping)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she told a teacher, the school already knows

Same kid doing the groping? Peace order

Peace orders do nothing. My kid had multiple juvenile harassment charges against a boy and still had to switch schools as they do nothing to help. They probably have at least 30-40 peace orders per school.

What's a peace order? Is that like a restraining order, but for minors? Or what is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you so much for everything. It pushed me to realize that regardless of anything else, I needed to go to the school. Met with the principal this morning, my daughter gave a statement. I think she was really upset, but overall she did great and I hope it helps her feel better.

Side note, the boy was also doing this to another girl, so I'm glad I brought it up for the boy's sake (so he can stop and not get worse, I hope).

I was very happy with how the principal handled everything with my daughter, so we'll see. Thank you again.

Did she meet with the school counselor? Even though she’s resistant to it, it really helps.

My daughter was 10, a tiny 10 year old. I got a call from the vice principal who let me know that my daughter was being harassed by a boy. Apparently her best friend was telling her mother all about this boy’s inappropriate behavior, touching and and saying crude things. The mother complained to the school and they investigated. It turned out that his target was actually my daughter and she never mentioned it.

He was a big mouth and would yell how hot she was and he wanted to xxxx her. So gross. He would slap her ass or grab it.

I asked the school if they could talk to the girls and let them know how and when to talk to a teacher when a boy is making them uncomfortable. The school said they were working with the boy and since it was the end of the school year they didn’t have time. Ten years old and it already began.

[Anonymous]

And what grade does the school go up to? If she is there with kids as old as 15 and or older especially if the school has esol programs where people may be older than the typical students

I would definitely file a police report

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she told a teacher, the school already knows

Same kid doing the groping? Peace order

Peace orders do nothing. My kid had multiple juvenile harassment charges against a boy and still had to switch schools as they do nothing to help. They probably have at least 30-40 peace orders per school.

What's a peace order? Is that like a restraining order, but for minors? Or what is it?

Yes but it is SO hard to get, isn't really enforced, and only lasts 90 days. It's a joke. And now anyone under 14 can't be charged or get one anyway so it's rarely given.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

I've worked in a court that practiced it. I've seen families of murder victims and actual rape victims themselves swear by it when it was all over. I understand that you don't believe in it, but don't for a moment try to speak for all the victims who said it actually was healing & effective when they thought nothing would ever heal them. If a family of someone murdered or someone raped by the defendant feel that way, and the defendant once they do their time doesn't re-offend anymore, that is effective more so than most of what happens every day in this country. Problem is it's very very hard to consistently do it right and you have to constantly be training staff and re-training staff.

There is a big difference between a convicted murderer doing it through a court and an accused grouper using it as a way to escape punishment

You're proving how little you know about this. Just about everyone caught doing something they weren't supposed to do and that they're getting in trouble for is looking for a way out. It would never be effective in schools (when done right) if "an accused groper wanted to use it to escape punishment" - Newsflash: EVERY kid accused of something they know they did wants to escape punishment. Maybe read up on Restorative Justice and how it is supposed to work before you try to dismiss it while showing you know almost nothing about it. When done right... it works very well. It is very hard to do it right, so it's hard to have as "The go-to consequence" in an overwhelmed school system that can't commit the staff & time to doing it well all the time.

So is restorative justice the new communism? That’s never been implemented correctly so we’ve never seen how good it could be?

+1 exactly, it's just a ridiculous talking point

Is selective reading the new trend? There seem to be 2 of us saying Restorative Justice works when done well, that it's hard to do well, but that we have SEEN IT DONE WELL and there is plenty of studies and findings about it that show it's effective. I've seen it work shockingly well in a court program and in schools.

But all of you intent on only taking away that it never works or it has never been done right so no one knows if it works, I seriously doubt you're out there finding better solutions for school discipline problems so not gonna worry that you choose ignorance about it.

It often does more harm than good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

I've worked in a court that practiced it. I've seen families of murder victims and actual rape victims themselves swear by it when it was all over. I understand that you don't believe in it, but don't for a moment try to speak for all the victims who said it actually was healing & effective when they thought nothing would ever heal them. If a family of someone murdered or someone raped by the defendant feel that way, and the defendant once they do their time doesn't re-offend anymore, that is effective more so than most of what happens every day in this country. Problem is it's very very hard to consistently do it right and you have to constantly be training staff and re-training staff.

There is a big difference between a convicted murderer doing it through a court and an accused grouper using it as a way to escape punishment

You're proving how little you know about this. Just about everyone caught doing something they weren't supposed to do and that they're getting in trouble for is looking for a way out. It would never be effective in schools (when done right) if "an accused groper wanted to use it to escape punishment" - Newsflash: EVERY kid accused of something they know they did wants to escape punishment. Maybe read up on Restorative Justice and how it is supposed to work before you try to dismiss it while showing you know almost nothing about it. When done right... it works very well. It is very hard to do it right, so it's hard to have as "The go-to consequence" in an overwhelmed school system that can't commit the staff & time to doing it well all the time.

So is restorative justice the new communism? That’s never been implemented correctly so we’ve never seen how good it could be?

+1 exactly, it's just a ridiculous talking point

Is selective reading the new trend? There seem to be 2 of us saying Restorative Justice works when done well, that it's hard to do well, but that we have SEEN IT DONE WELL and there is plenty of studies and findings about it that show it's effective. I've seen it work shockingly well in a court program and in schools.

But all of you intent on only taking away that it never works or it has never been done right so no one knows if it works, I seriously doubt you're out there finding better solutions for school discipline problems so not gonna worry that you choose ignorance about it.

Did you miss the part about this being a sexual assault? (hint: it is in the thread title).

Perhaps you should address your own ignorance by reading up on rape-shield laws. What you propose (restorative justice) is the opposite of a rape-shield law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you so much for everything. It pushed me to realize that regardless of anything else, I needed to go to the school. Met with the principal this morning, my daughter gave a statement. I think she was really upset, but overall she did great and I hope it helps her feel better.

Side note, the boy was also doing this to another girl, so I'm glad I brought it up for the boy's sake (so he can stop and not get worse, I hope).

I was very happy with how the principal handled everything with my daughter, so we'll see. Thank you again.

I think you did the right thing. Involving the police seems problematic- for all.

Whatever the police do or don't do is not the victim's fault. She can call the police if she wants.

DUDE How is calling the police for 2 assaults problematic???

Because they have to then “investigate” which could potentially make the whole situation much more public and humiliating for OP’s DD. Plus this is another 12 yr old. It isn’t like if you file a report about an adult at your work and they get put on leave. Or a stranger you don’t interact with daily. The kid isnt getting formally charged or expelled from school. He will still be there every day. Kids will all be talking about it and the school can’t stop that. I really don’t think it will make things better for OPs daughter. It will likely make them worse.

Sorry to burst the bro-code but 12 year olds know it's wrong to assault other 12 year olds. Who gives a crap if there is an investigation? There should be. Why shame the victim? I would bet money he gets expelled or suspended. What "makes it better" is when it stops. Not when she stops talking about it.

OP’s daughter might care, a lot, and it could be very traumatizing. The police would likely call in several students to ask about this, what they saw, etc. It would be a highly talked about spectacle at school. And what would be the gain? In Maryland, a child under 13 cannot be charged with a crime. There will be no charges and no trial. The school administration are the ones who would and should handle this