Help settle a debate about saying grace

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

I'm not Christian and don't say grace myself. However, if I'm eating with a Christian, Muslim, Jew or whoever and they want to say grace or similar words, I've no issues, even if its at my home. I would prefer if as courtesy they first check with me or whoever is the host but see no reason why anyone would object.

These are just chants of gratitude, doesn't matter if they use Hebrew, English or Arabic or Icelandic and thank Jesus, Allah or God. Its all the same. If there is a God, it is everybody's God, no matter how exclusive people think their god is.

[Anonymous]

If you can only say your prayer out loud, you are doing it wrong.

Look it up. Matthew 6:5-8.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

I'm not Christian and don't say grace myself. However, if I'm eating with a Christian, Muslim, Jew or whoever and they want to say grace or similar words, I've no issues, even if its at my home. I would prefer if as courtesy they first check with me or whoever is the host but see no reason why anyone would object.

These are just chants of gratitude, doesn't matter if they use Hebrew, English or Arabic or Icelandic and thank Jesus, Allah or God. Its all the same. If there is a God, it is everybody's God, no matter how exclusive people think their god is.

+1

Thank you. I think your post is the kindest and most admirable on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you should go with the hosts preference. That is the polite thing to do. At the same time, I would not object to a friend wanting to say grace in my home. If everyone is reasonable, then things are fine. But as the another post in this forum shows, many people here feel like it's their RIGHT to do whatever/whenever in the name of freedom.

There's a big difference between not being religious and being so offended by other people's religion that you feel compelled to prevent them from practicing it in your presence.

Why would you not want your friends to say a 15-30 prayer of gratitude and thanks in your home (where you invited them to be) and respect their beliefs?

People DO have the freedom to practice their religion (or to not practice a religion) and it’s a great privilege to have the freedom to do so.

Why are we against freedom?

Why is freedom a bad thing?

People are free to speak and practice whatever religion they choose- or choose to not practice a religion.

I don’t think I have ever encountered people who think this is a negative thing before, ever.

“The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819.


"Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that... of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to John Thomas et al., 1807.


"In our early struggles for liberty, religious freedom could not fail to become a primary object." --Thomas Jefferson to Baltimore Baptists, 1808.


"Religion, as well as reason, confirms the soundness of those principles on which our government has been founded and its rights asserted." --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815.


"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.

I mean sure, but the rest of us don't have to sit around quietly with our heads bowed. If someone at my table wants to say a prayer silently before they eat with their head bowed and hands folded, go for it. I don't feel the need to stop my conversation with the person next to me for that and bow my head along with them. That's my freedom not to and I'm sure you agree with me.

I mean personally I am not going to eat until everyone at the table is ready to eat. If we go in a group to a restaurant, order in a group, and another diner’s food is late, I don’t eat until they have the meal they ordered. I think it’s rude to eat in front of a friend who is waiting for their food and hungry also. That’s just my level of manners and empathy, and I know it’s not something everyone else feels necessary.

Of course you have every right to not pray and can eat whenever you wish. You have no responsibility or duty to pray with anyone.

That’s why it’s ridiculous to debate whether or not we can “allow” someone to pray at our homes or at a restaurant.

I am glad to live in a country where everyone can live their life as they wish. It’s truly a privilege to have these freedoms.

op should realize that they don’t control what their guests do, and to try to control them is exceptionally rude, especially as the purpose of inviting someone to your home is to have a mutually pleasant experience and share a meal.

Not talking about eating before everyone else. If I'm in a conversation with someone at the table and someone else starts to pray out loud I'm not going to stop my conversation and pretend to join in. Love my freedoms. You go ahead and do you. I'll do me.

Anyone can pray at any time. Just like anyone can curse at any time. Or sing a song. Or recite a poem. All silently, no one else needs to be drawn into it.

I wonder how many of these hypotheticals on any side have actually been experienced by the people posting them.

Anyway, would you be respectful of somebody else's prayers/vegan food/no-pork preferences? Or would you curse during the silent prayer and dribble BBQ sauce over their plate as you help yourself to the pork?

Stop being argumentative, please. I think we've established that a silent prayer would be just fine, which answers OP's question,

It's kind of too bad this was moved to the Religion forum.

Not at all sure this was established. The pp right above wrote: "Not talking about eating before everyone else. If I'm in a conversation with someone at the table and someone else starts to pray out loud I'm not going to stop my conversation and pretend to join in. Love my freedoms. You go ahead and do you. I'll do me. Anyone can pray at any time. Just like anyone can curse at any time. Or sing a song. Or recite a poem. All silently, no one else needs to be drawn into it."

Yes I saw that post. Note the bolded. Where does it say that a silent prayer would be unacceptable? Or how are you interpreting that post to mean that silent prayer would be unacceptable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our policy. The person who wants grace can ask those assembled if anyone minds a pause for giving grace. If so, then that person can lead the prayer. If someone says they prefer not, then the meal continues and the person can say a quiet personal grace before eating. I have had both situations and the person who wants grace, can does not have to do it publicly. Grace is a personal choice and should not be imposed on everyone if they aren't comfortable.

What about Muslim, Buddhist, or Hindu friends? Do you make them ask permission from everyone else present to pray according to their religious beliefs before eating?

I don’t. They don’t have to get permission from other people to practice their religion in my presence.

Why does someone else practicing their religion make you uncomfortable,

Do Muslims and Buddhists and Christians have cooties, and you are afraid of cooties cross over during a 30 second prayer of thanksgiving?

I'm the PP you're responding to. No one needs to ask to practice their religion. Everyone needs to ask if they expect everyone to practice their religious practices. So, a Muslim, Jew, Christian or Buddhist who chooses to practice their religion to themselves is perfectly acceptable. Anyone who wants the group to quiet down and to follow their religious practices has to ask the group for permission.

No one gets to impose their religious beliefs of practices on others without asking, but everyone is perfectly entitled to personally perform any religious practice that does not involve others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our policy. The person who wants grace can ask those assembled if anyone minds a pause for giving grace. If so, then that person can lead the prayer. If someone says they prefer not, then the meal continues and the person can say a quiet personal grace before eating. I have had both situations and the person who wants grace, can does not have to do it publicly. Grace is a personal choice and should not be imposed on everyone if they aren't comfortable.

How and when do you communicate your policy?

When the person suggests saying grace. Usually someone will say something like "We should say Grace before we eat." or "Shall we pray before we eat?" At which point, I'll say "Let's ask the group what they would prefer. If no one objects, you can lead us in Grace. Shall we say Grace or just move onto the meal?" and let the group give their input. I've had people accept and had people say that they prefer if we moved on to the meal and then I've told the person that they can give thanks for themselves while we move on to the meal."

I see no reason why my non-Christian friends need to participate in a Christian practice (and we are Christian, but we don't say Grace before meals).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you should go with the hosts preference. That is the polite thing to do. At the same time, I would not object to a friend wanting to say grace in my home. If everyone is reasonable, then things are fine. But as the another post in this forum shows, many people here feel like it's their RIGHT to do whatever/whenever in the name of freedom.

There's a big difference between not being religious and being so offended by other people's religion that you feel compelled to prevent them from practicing it in your presence.

Why would you not want your friends to say a 15-30 prayer of gratitude and thanks in your home (where you invited them to be) and respect their beliefs?

People DO have the freedom to practice their religion (or to not practice a religion) and it’s a great privilege to have the freedom to do so.

Why are we against freedom?

Why is freedom a bad thing?

People are free to speak and practice whatever religion they choose- or choose to not practice a religion.

I don’t think I have ever encountered people who think this is a negative thing before, ever.

“The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819.


"Among the most inestimable of our blessings, also, is that... of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His will; a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to John Thomas et al., 1807.


"In our early struggles for liberty, religious freedom could not fail to become a primary object." --Thomas Jefferson to Baltimore Baptists, 1808.


"Religion, as well as reason, confirms the soundness of those principles on which our government has been founded and its rights asserted." --Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, 1815.


"One of the amendments to the Constitution... expressly declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press,' thereby guarding in the same sentence and under the same words, the freedom of religion, of speech, and of the press; insomuch that whatever violates either throws down the sanctuary which covers the others." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.

I mean sure, but the rest of us don't have to sit around quietly with our heads bowed. If someone at my table wants to say a prayer silently before they eat with their head bowed and hands folded, go for it. I don't feel the need to stop my conversation with the person next to me for that and bow my head along with them. That's my freedom not to and I'm sure you agree with me.

I mean personally I am not going to eat until everyone at the table is ready to eat. If we go in a group to a restaurant, order in a group, and another diner’s food is late, I don’t eat until they have the meal they ordered. I think it’s rude to eat in front of a friend who is waiting for their food and hungry also. That’s just my level of manners and empathy, and I know it’s not something everyone else feels necessary.

Of course you have every right to not pray and can eat whenever you wish. You have no responsibility or duty to pray with anyone.

That’s why it’s ridiculous to debate whether or not we can “allow” someone to pray at our homes or at a restaurant.

I am glad to live in a country where everyone can live their life as they wish. It’s truly a privilege to have these freedoms.

op should realize that they don’t control what their guests do, and to try to control them is exceptionally rude, especially as the purpose of inviting someone to your home is to have a mutually pleasant experience and share a meal.

Not talking about eating before everyone else. If I'm in a conversation with someone at the table and someone else starts to pray out loud I'm not going to stop my conversation and pretend to join in. Love my freedoms. You go ahead and do you. I'll do me.

Anyone can pray at any time. Just like anyone can curse at any time. Or sing a song. Or recite a poem. All silently, no one else needs to be drawn into it.

I wonder how many of these hypotheticals on any side have actually been experienced by the people posting them.

Anyway, would you be respectful of somebody else's prayers/vegan food/no-pork preferences? Or would you curse during the silent prayer and dribble BBQ sauce over their plate as you help yourself to the pork?

Stop being argumentative, please. I think we've established that a silent prayer would be just fine, which answers OP's question,

It's kind of too bad this was moved to the Religion forum.

Not at all sure this was established. The pp right above wrote: "Not talking about eating before everyone else. If I'm in a conversation with someone at the table and someone else starts to pray out loud I'm not going to stop my conversation and pretend to join in. Love my freedoms. You go ahead and do you. I'll do me. Anyone can pray at any time. Just like anyone can curse at any time. Or sing a song. Or recite a poem. All silently, no one else needs to be drawn into it."

And whats wrong with that? By continuing their conversation they are not impeding someone elses ability to pray or say grace

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a grace-sayer myself, but have many in my extended family & friends network.

My perspective: when in Rome…… the host leads; others may follow or do their own thing, but it’s rude to expect the host to alter their own way to accommodate you. So in your own home, feel free to lead grace out loud, guests may join or not join as they see fit. When you are a guest in someone else’s home, I vote for saying grace quietly to yourself. Host and other guests do not need to wait for you.

Restaurants are a bit trickier, as there really is no host/guest dynamic. In that case I think it’s ok to say it out loud, but again don’t expect anyone else to join in or wait for you to finish.

+1 religious people, IMO, should not be privileged. It is neither good nor bad to be religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our policy. The person who wants grace can ask those assembled if anyone minds a pause for giving grace. If so, then that person can lead the prayer. If someone says they prefer not, then the meal continues and the person can say a quiet personal grace before eating. I have had both situations and the person who wants grace, can does not have to do it publicly. Grace is a personal choice and should not be imposed on everyone if they aren't comfortable.

What about Muslim, Buddhist, or Hindu friends? Do you make them ask permission from everyone else present to pray according to their religious beliefs before eating?

I don’t. They don’t have to get permission from other people to practice their religion in my presence.

Why does someone else practicing their religion make you uncomfortable,

Do Muslims and Buddhists and Christians have cooties, and you are afraid of cooties cross over during a 30 second prayer of thanksgiving?

I'm the PP you're responding to. No one needs to ask to practice their religion. Everyone needs to ask if they expect everyone to practice their religious practices. So, a Muslim, Jew, Christian or Buddhist who chooses to practice their religion to themselves is perfectly acceptable. Anyone who wants the group to quiet down and to follow their religious practices has to ask the group for permission.

No one gets to impose their religious beliefs of practices on others without asking, but everyone is perfectly entitled to personally perform any religious practice that does not involve others.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

Obtuse is used as a veiled insult for being stupid, simple minded, or willfully ignorant.

Why are you or your spouse calling people who say grace simple, stupid, and ignorant?

That’s a bad way to talk about people who think you are their friend. I would not want to be friends with someone who thought I was simple or ignorant because of my religion.

It says so much about you (or your spouse) that you would call people names because of their religion, and none of it good.

words associated with the adjective obtuse
slow to understand
dense
dopey
dull
dumb
imperceptive
insensitive
opaque
slow on uptake
stolid
thick

I think the correct answer is that neither people who say grace nor people who do not say grace eat with bigots who call their friends and acquaintances hurtful names behind their backs.

Better yet: be honest and tell your friends you find them ignorant and simple, and let them know who you really are so they won’t be disappointed when they lose a friendship. They will be glad to not hang out with backstabbing people who judge them negatively and think they are superior to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

Obtuse is used as a veiled insult for being stupid, simple minded, or willfully ignorant.

Why are you or your spouse calling people who say grace simple, stupid, and ignorant?

That’s a bad way to talk about people who think you are their friend. I would not want to be friends with someone who thought I was simple or ignorant because of my religion.

It says so much about you (or your spouse) that you would call people names because of their religion, and none of it good.

words associated with the adjective obtuse
slow to understand
dense
dopey
dull
dumb
imperceptive
insensitive
opaque
slow on uptake
stolid
thick

I think the correct answer is that neither people who say grace nor people who do not say grace eat with bigots who call their friends and acquaintances hurtful names behind their backs.

Better yet: be honest and tell your friends you find them ignorant and simple, and let them know who you really are so they won’t be disappointed when they lose a friendship. They will be glad to not hang out with backstabbing people who judge them negatively and think they are superior to them.

You are being obtuse, or willfully ignorant, of the post. OP did not say either person thinks religious people are obtuse for saying grace in general, only when saying it in "mixed company". Please learn to read before you start lecturing others on their use of language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

Obtuse is used as a veiled insult for being stupid, simple minded, or willfully ignorant.

Why are you or your spouse calling people who say grace simple, stupid, and ignorant?

That’s a bad way to talk about people who think you are their friend. I would not want to be friends with someone who thought I was simple or ignorant because of my religion.

It says so much about you (or your spouse) that you would call people names because of their religion, and none of it good.

words associated with the adjective obtuse
slow to understand
dense
dopey
dull
dumb
imperceptive
insensitive
opaque
slow on uptake
stolid
thick

I think the correct answer is that neither people who say grace nor people who do not say grace eat with bigots who call their friends and acquaintances hurtful names behind their backs.

Better yet: be honest and tell your friends you find them ignorant and simple, and let them know who you really are so they won’t be disappointed when they lose a friendship. They will be glad to not hang out with backstabbing people who judge them negatively and think they are superior to them.

You are being obtuse, or willfully ignorant, of the post. OP did not say either person thinks religious people are obtuse for saying grace in general, only when saying it in "mixed company". Please learn to read before you start lecturing others on their use of language.

Go gaslighting your “friends” or something.

Looking down on others and calling them ignorant, dumb, slow, etc, is not acceptable.

I bet atheist op got a thrill calling religious people dumb and simple in the original post, without anyone catching on to what a bigot they are.

I feel sorry for anyone hangs around with op. At least their spouse isn’t a vile person.

I can’t stand fake people. People who act like they are nice and open minded and accepting, but really calling their friends and acquaintances simple and ignorant and dull.

You are a bad person, op. You are two faced and sneaky, and another jerk has the gall to defend you and pretend insulting the education, intelligence, and emotional intelligence of people you are pretending to like is ok. It’s not.

Don’t eat with these people, you don’t like or respect them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

Obtuse is used as a veiled insult for being stupid, simple minded, or willfully ignorant.

Why are you or your spouse calling people who say grace simple, stupid, and ignorant?

That’s a bad way to talk about people who think you are their friend. I would not want to be friends with someone who thought I was simple or ignorant because of my religion.

It says so much about you (or your spouse) that you would call people names because of their religion, and none of it good.

words associated with the adjective obtuse
slow to understand
dense
dopey
dull
dumb
imperceptive
insensitive
opaque
slow on uptake
stolid
thick

I think the correct answer is that neither people who say grace nor people who do not say grace eat with bigots who call their friends and acquaintances hurtful names behind their backs.

Better yet: be honest and tell your friends you find them ignorant and simple, and let them know who you really are so they won’t be disappointed when they lose a friendship. They will be glad to not hang out with backstabbing people who judge them negatively and think they are superior to them.

You are being obtuse, or willfully ignorant, of the post. OP did not say either person thinks religious people are obtuse for saying grace in general, only when saying it in "mixed company". Please learn to read before you start lecturing others on their use of language.

Bigot #2 or op pretending to be a pp:

you lack basic manners. as does op.

you lack respect for people in general.

you are so manipulative that you will participate in calling people names and insulting their intelligence, and then try to pretend the person that points out your horrendous attitude towards others is the ignorant one.

People should not be friends with people like you because you don’t respect them.

op is calling people stupid and slow with a word that doesn’t seem bad, and these people are their friends.

Decent humans don’t call their friends insulting names.

I wish I could warn op’s friends they are thought of as dull witted imbeciles who are slow and ignorant by someone they think is their friend, I hate when someone is openly admitting they treat people badly- it’s almost bragging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

Obtuse is used as a veiled insult for being stupid, simple minded, or willfully ignorant.

Why are you or your spouse calling people who say grace simple, stupid, and ignorant?

That’s a bad way to talk about people who think you are their friend. I would not want to be friends with someone who thought I was simple or ignorant because of my religion.

It says so much about you (or your spouse) that you would call people names because of their religion, and none of it good.

words associated with the adjective obtuse
slow to understand
dense
dopey
dull
dumb
imperceptive
insensitive
opaque
slow on uptake
stolid
thick

I think the correct answer is that neither people who say grace nor people who do not say grace eat with bigots who call their friends and acquaintances hurtful names behind their backs.

Better yet: be honest and tell your friends you find them ignorant and simple, and let them know who you really are so they won’t be disappointed when they lose a friendship. They will be glad to not hang out with backstabbing people who judge them negatively and think they are superior to them.

You are being obtuse, or willfully ignorant, of the post. OP did not say either person thinks religious people are obtuse for saying grace in general, only when saying it in "mixed company". Please learn to read before you start lecturing others on their use of language.

This is definitely op.

“Please learn to read before you start lecturing others…”

Op- You are the smartest person ever. You are smarter than your spouse, your friends, etc.

You think you are so smart you can use a word that is extremely insulting to describe people you call your friends and nobody will catch on.

When someone points out what a disrespectful and two-faced person you are, you tell them to “learn to read.”

You think so very highly of yourself and think of other people as imbeciles.

Obtuse is an insult. To say call your friends obtuse, and to tell someone to “learn to read,” means you are snobby and rude, as well as a bigot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

Obtuse is used as a veiled insult for being stupid, simple minded, or willfully ignorant.

Why are you or your spouse calling people who say grace simple, stupid, and ignorant?

That’s a bad way to talk about people who think you are their friend. I would not want to be friends with someone who thought I was simple or ignorant because of my religion.

It says so much about you (or your spouse) that you would call people names because of their religion, and none of it good.

words associated with the adjective obtuse
slow to understand
dense
dopey
dull
dumb
imperceptive
insensitive
opaque
slow on uptake
stolid
thick

I think the correct answer is that neither people who say grace nor people who do not say grace eat with bigots who call their friends and acquaintances hurtful names behind their backs.

Better yet: be honest and tell your friends you find them ignorant and simple, and let them know who you really are so they won’t be disappointed when they lose a friendship. They will be glad to not hang out with backstabbing people who judge them negatively and think they are superior to them.

You are being obtuse, or willfully ignorant, of the post. OP did not say either person thinks religious people are obtuse for saying grace in general, only when saying it in "mixed company". Please learn to read before you start lecturing others on their use of language.

This is definitely op.

“Please learn to read before you start lecturing others…”

Op- You are the smartest person ever. You are smarter than your spouse, your friends, etc.

You think you are so smart you can use a word that is extremely insulting to describe people you call your friends and nobody will catch on.

When someone points out what a disrespectful and two-faced person you are, you tell them to “learn to read.”

You think so very highly of yourself and think of other people as imbeciles.

Obtuse is an insult. To say call your friends obtuse, and to tell someone to “learn to read,” means you are snobby and rude, as well as a bigot.

Your sarcasm makes you no better than you seem to think the op is.

Go ahead, rant some more.