Help settle a debate about saying grace

[Anonymous]

Say it in your head, preferably without drawing lots of attention.

I feel pretty uncomfortable when people try to force their religion on me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If grace-sayer is hosting in their private residence, I think it's fine to say out loud. I would not expect "nons" to have to join hands, bow heads or participate (though I guess waiting to eat would be the polite thing).

If grace-sayer is an invited guest at a "nons" home, they should not try to control the custom, and say it in their head to themselves, and I would not expect others to participate or wait to eat.

If we are in a public restaurant, I would not expect the grace-sayer to control the custom, and they can say it to themselves and not expect others to participate or wait to eat.

Wait, you actually expect people to forgo a custom because YOU don't like it, even though they would NEVER ask you to participate? Yikes.

Where did I say that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist. If someone invited to dinner wants to say a quick prayer before their meal, they are welcome to. I would appreciate a heads up, so that I can let everyone know that Suzy would like to say a prayer, and could we all be quiet before starting dinner. If out at a restaurant, I would refrain from eating while they said their prayer.

This is not onerous. I don't see what the problem is with letting someone go ahead with their prayer. It's not like it's harming anyone.

So the people of different beliefs should not be respected? Why can’t the person with the belief pray quietly, and be thankful to their God quietly? Then everybody can deal with it on their own terms in accordance with their own beliefs.

I mean this example in a public place with a mixed group, not in a private home.

Their being thankful for their meal is not disrespecting you unless you just hate Christians...

So there are ONLY two options then: being a christian or hating them?

Other belief systems need not apply?

See, the problem is NOT that you want to pray at a meal in a public restaurant. The problem is that you demand everyone with you do so also.

If you don't see how that is disrespectful, then there is no use in having this discussion with you.

[Anonymous]

I am not Christian. I don’t mind at all if someone would like to say grace. I’m more than happy to wait respectfully. I am not happy to bow my head or be expected to participate in the prayer or otherwise be involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

I think whoever wants to say grace can say it, but cannot disrupt others' choice not to say or observe it.

So, if you need to give thanks for what you are about to consume, do so in your head or quietly, and leave everyone else alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist. If someone invited to dinner wants to say a quick prayer before their meal, they are welcome to. I would appreciate a heads up, so that I can let everyone know that Suzy would like to say a prayer, and could we all be quiet before starting dinner. If out at a restaurant, I would refrain from eating while they said their prayer.

This is not onerous. I don't see what the problem is with letting someone go ahead with their prayer. It's not like it's harming anyone.

So the people of different beliefs should not be respected? Why can’t the person with the belief pray quietly, and be thankful to their God quietly? Then everybody can deal with it on their own terms in accordance with their own beliefs.

I mean this example in a public place with a mixed group, not in a private home.

Atheist PP. I don't see how it is disrespectful to people of different beliefs to allow one or more people in a group to say grace. I would be equally open to any other prayer; it doesn't require participation, just not being rude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist. If someone invited to dinner wants to say a quick prayer before their meal, they are welcome to. I would appreciate a heads up, so that I can let everyone know that Suzy would like to say a prayer, and could we all be quiet before starting dinner. If out at a restaurant, I would refrain from eating while they said their prayer.

This is not onerous. I don't see what the problem is with letting someone go ahead with their prayer. It's not like it's harming anyone.

So the people of different beliefs should not be respected? Why can’t the person with the belief pray quietly, and be thankful to their God quietly? Then everybody can deal with it on their own terms in accordance with their own beliefs.

I mean this example in a public place with a mixed group, not in a private home.

Their being thankful for their meal is not disrespecting you unless you just hate Christians...

So there are ONLY two options then: being a christian or hating them?

Other belief systems need not apply?

See, the problem is NOT that you want to pray at a meal in a public restaurant. The problem is that you demand everyone with you do so also.

If you don't see how that is disrespectful, then there is no use in having this discussion with you.

Those are not the only options. Atheists here have explained that they sit there while others pray. No one is forcing you to participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist. If someone invited to dinner wants to say a quick prayer before their meal, they are welcome to. I would appreciate a heads up, so that I can let everyone know that Suzy would like to say a prayer, and could we all be quiet before starting dinner. If out at a restaurant, I would refrain from eating while they said their prayer.

This is not onerous. I don't see what the problem is with letting someone go ahead with their prayer. It's not like it's harming anyone.

So the people of different beliefs should not be respected? Why can’t the person with the belief pray quietly, and be thankful to their God quietly? Then everybody can deal with it on their own terms in accordance with their own beliefs.

I mean this example in a public place with a mixed group, not in a private home.

Atheist PP. I don't see how it is disrespectful to people of different beliefs to allow one or more people in a group to say grace. I would be equally open to any other prayer; it doesn't require participation, just not being rude.

Great idea! So then the atheist can say "well there is no evidence of a god, but man do those jalepeno poppers look good, I am eager to eat them!" That should not offend anyone, right?

[Anonymous]

When I invite people I care about to enjoy a meal with me at my home or a restaurant, I want them to be comfortable and I want to enjoy time in their presence.

At home, being a host isn’t about the host imposing their rules on their guests. The host is supposed to accommodate their guests.

I don’t tell anyone what they can or cannot do in regards to their beliefs. If I invited a vegan to my home, am I going to insist that they eat meat because I do and my wishes are running the get together, because I am the host? No, I accommodate my guest by serving vegan dishes, because I invited my vegan guest to dinner. When I invite someone to my house, I am making a huge effort to provide them with a nice memory.

I consider it a privilege for my friends to feel comfortable around me and to live their lives authentically.

If I care about someone enough to schedule a meal with them as a pleasant activity, the last thing I am going to do is stress out over prayer and who tells who what to do, etc.
You are going to make a big deal and ruin a get together over something that isn’t a big deal? Somehow I don’t think people who would do this really respect or care about their friends or family.

And remember: the host accommodates the guests, not the other way around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist. If someone invited to dinner wants to say a quick prayer before their meal, they are welcome to. I would appreciate a heads up, so that I can let everyone know that Suzy would like to say a prayer, and could we all be quiet before starting dinner. If out at a restaurant, I would refrain from eating while they said their prayer.

This is not onerous. I don't see what the problem is with letting someone go ahead with their prayer. It's not like it's harming anyone.

So the people of different beliefs should not be respected? Why can’t the person with the belief pray quietly, and be thankful to their God quietly? Then everybody can deal with it on their own terms in accordance with their own beliefs.

I mean this example in a public place with a mixed group, not in a private home.

Atheist PP. I don't see how it is disrespectful to people of different beliefs to allow one or more people in a group to say grace. I would be equally open to any other prayer; it doesn't require participation, just not being rude.

Great idea! So then the atheist can say "well there is no evidence of a god, but man do those jalepeno poppers look good, I am eager to eat them!" That should not offend anyone, right?

The majority of prominent conceptions of God explicitly or effectively posit a being whose existence is not testable either by proof or disproof. Therefore, the question of God's existence may lie outside the purview of modern science by definition.

Why would you bring up something at a meal with friends that illustrates how dumb you are?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I invite people I care about to enjoy a meal with me at my home or a restaurant, I want them to be comfortable and I want to enjoy time in their presence.

At home, being a host isn’t about the host imposing their rules on their guests. The host is supposed to accommodate their guests.

I don’t tell anyone what they can or cannot do in regards to their beliefs. If I invited a vegan to my home, am I going to insist that they eat meat because I do and my wishes are running the get together, because I am the host? No, I accommodate my guest by serving vegan dishes, because I invited my vegan guest to dinner. When I invite someone to my house, I am making a huge effort to provide them with a nice memory.

I consider it a privilege for my friends to feel comfortable around me and to live their lives authentically.

If I care about someone enough to schedule a meal with them as a pleasant activity, the last thing I am going to do is stress out over prayer and who tells who what to do, etc.
You are going to make a big deal and ruin a get together over something that isn’t a big deal? Somehow I don’t think people who would do this really respect or care about their friends or family.

And remember: the host accommodates the guests, not the other way around.

I appreciate the work you put in to your post, but virtually everyone here agrees that in a private home the customs of the home should be respected.

I think this thread is more about going to a restaurant with a group of people from a club or work or something like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I invite people I care about to enjoy a meal with me at my home or a restaurant, I want them to be comfortable and I want to enjoy time in their presence.

At home, being a host isn’t about the host imposing their rules on their guests. The host is supposed to accommodate their guests.

I don’t tell anyone what they can or cannot do in regards to their beliefs. If I invited a vegan to my home, am I going to insist that they eat meat because I do and my wishes are running the get together, because I am the host? No, I accommodate my guest by serving vegan dishes, because I invited my vegan guest to dinner. When I invite someone to my house, I am making a huge effort to provide them with a nice memory.

I consider it a privilege for my friends to feel comfortable around me and to live their lives authentically.

If I care about someone enough to schedule a meal with them as a pleasant activity, the last thing I am going to do is stress out over prayer and who tells who what to do, etc.
You are going to make a big deal and ruin a get together over something that isn’t a big deal? Somehow I don’t think people who would do this really respect or care about their friends or family.

And remember: the host accommodates the guests, not the other way around.

So if you are in the habit of saying grace, you would skip it in order to be a gracious host to your non-grace saying guests? This seems to be a minority position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist. If someone invited to dinner wants to say a quick prayer before their meal, they are welcome to. I would appreciate a heads up, so that I can let everyone know that Suzy would like to say a prayer, and could we all be quiet before starting dinner. If out at a restaurant, I would refrain from eating while they said their prayer.

This is not onerous. I don't see what the problem is with letting someone go ahead with their prayer. It's not like it's harming anyone.

So the people of different beliefs should not be respected? Why can’t the person with the belief pray quietly, and be thankful to their God quietly? Then everybody can deal with it on their own terms in accordance with their own beliefs.

I mean this example in a public place with a mixed group, not in a private home.

Atheist PP. I don't see how it is disrespectful to people of different beliefs to allow one or more people in a group to say grace. I would be equally open to any other prayer; it doesn't require participation, just not being rude.

Great idea! So then the atheist can say "well there is no evidence of a god, but man do those jalepeno poppers look good, I am eager to eat them!" That should not offend anyone, right?

The majority of prominent conceptions of God explicitly or effectively posit a being whose existence is not testable either by proof or disproof. Therefore, the question of God's existence may lie outside the purview of modern science by definition.

Why would you bring up something at a meal with friends that illustrates how dumb you are?

Someone who does not believe in a god is dumb?

Also, where do you see the word "proof" in the post you are replying to?

Here's the answer: you don't! You are being dishonest and straw-man-ing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist. If someone invited to dinner wants to say a quick prayer before their meal, they are welcome to. I would appreciate a heads up, so that I can let everyone know that Suzy would like to say a prayer, and could we all be quiet before starting dinner. If out at a restaurant, I would refrain from eating while they said their prayer.

This is not onerous. I don't see what the problem is with letting someone go ahead with their prayer. It's not like it's harming anyone.

So the people of different beliefs should not be respected? Why can’t the person with the belief pray quietly, and be thankful to their God quietly? Then everybody can deal with it on their own terms in accordance with their own beliefs.

I mean this example in a public place with a mixed group, not in a private home.

Atheist PP. I don't see how it is disrespectful to people of different beliefs to allow one or more people in a group to say grace. I would be equally open to any other prayer; it doesn't require participation, just not being rude.

Great idea! So then the atheist can say "well there is no evidence of a god, but man do those jalepeno poppers look good, I am eager to eat them!" That should not offend anyone, right?

The majority of prominent conceptions of God explicitly or effectively posit a being whose existence is not testable either by proof or disproof. Therefore, the question of God's existence may lie outside the purview of modern science by definition.

Why would you bring up something at a meal with friends that illustrates how dumb you are?

Someone who does not believe in a god is dumb?

Also, where do you see the word "proof" in the post you are replying to?

Here's the answer: you don't! You are being dishonest and straw-man-ing.

You are advertising your ignorance regarding this subject. I would tell you that you should not do so, but I don’t think you have to worry about being invited to meals with friends very often, if ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist. If someone invited to dinner wants to say a quick prayer before their meal, they are welcome to. I would appreciate a heads up, so that I can let everyone know that Suzy would like to say a prayer, and could we all be quiet before starting dinner. If out at a restaurant, I would refrain from eating while they said their prayer.

This is not onerous. I don't see what the problem is with letting someone go ahead with their prayer. It's not like it's harming anyone.

So the people of different beliefs should not be respected? Why can’t the person with the belief pray quietly, and be thankful to their God quietly? Then everybody can deal with it on their own terms in accordance with their own beliefs.

I mean this example in a public place with a mixed group, not in a private home.

Atheist PP. I don't see how it is disrespectful to people of different beliefs to allow one or more people in a group to say grace. I would be equally open to any other prayer; it doesn't require participation, just not being rude.

Great idea! So then the atheist can say "well there is no evidence of a god, but man do those jalepeno poppers look good, I am eager to eat them!" That should not offend anyone, right?

The majority of prominent conceptions of God explicitly or effectively posit a being whose existence is not testable either by proof or disproof. Therefore, the question of God's existence may lie outside the purview of modern science by definition.

Why would you bring up something at a meal with friends that illustrates how dumb you are?

Someone who does not believe in a god is dumb?

Also, where do you see the word "proof" in the post you are replying to?

Here's the answer: you don't! You are being dishonest and straw-man-ing.

You are advertising your ignorance regarding this subject. I would tell you that you should not do so, but I don’t think you have to worry about being invited to meals with friends very often, if ever.

Can you guys knock off the bickering and insults? This isn't a question about whether god exists.