Help settle a debate about saying grace

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

Obtuse is used as a veiled insult for being stupid, simple minded, or willfully ignorant.

Why are you or your spouse calling people who say grace simple, stupid, and ignorant?

That’s a bad way to talk about people who think you are their friend. I would not want to be friends with someone who thought I was simple or ignorant because of my religion.

It says so much about you (or your spouse) that you would call people names because of their religion, and none of it good.

words associated with the adjective obtuse
slow to understand
dense
dopey
dull
dumb
imperceptive
insensitive
opaque
slow on uptake
stolid
thick

I think the correct answer is that neither people who say grace nor people who do not say grace eat with bigots who call their friends and acquaintances hurtful names behind their backs.

Better yet: be honest and tell your friends you find them ignorant and simple, and let them know who you really are so they won’t be disappointed when they lose a friendship. They will be glad to not hang out with backstabbing people who judge them negatively and think they are superior to them.

You are being obtuse, or willfully ignorant, of the post. OP did not say either person thinks religious people are obtuse for saying grace in general, only when saying it in "mixed company". Please learn to read before you start lecturing others on their use of language.

This is definitely op.

“Please learn to read before you start lecturing others…”

Op- You are the smartest person ever. You are smarter than your spouse, your friends, etc.

You think you are so smart you can use a word that is extremely insulting to describe people you call your friends and nobody will catch on.

When someone points out what a disrespectful and two-faced person you are, you tell them to “learn to read.”

You think so very highly of yourself and think of other people as imbeciles.

Obtuse is an insult. To say call your friends obtuse, and to tell someone to “learn to read,” means you are snobby and rude, as well as a bigot.

That was not me. Also, these are not my friends I am talking about. Also you don’t know if I am the spouse with the first viewpoint or the second. It could be my spouse you have a quibble with.

I will be frank, though, that I do think you seem like an imbecile.

If you can’t admit to your position there is no point in engaging with you.

So don’t?

Right?

[Anonymous]

So it’s settled: op is a dishonest person who is manipulating this issue by refusing to be honest about their opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So it’s settled: op is a dishonest person who is manipulating this issue by refusing to be honest about their opinion.

Absolutely. We all agree. Glad we cleared that up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

Obtuse is used as a veiled insult for being stupid, simple minded, or willfully ignorant.

Why are you or your spouse calling people who say grace simple, stupid, and ignorant?

That’s a bad way to talk about people who think you are their friend. I would not want to be friends with someone who thought I was simple or ignorant because of my religion.

It says so much about you (or your spouse) that you would call people names because of their religion, and none of it good.

words associated with the adjective obtuse
slow to understand
dense
dopey
dull
dumb
imperceptive
insensitive
opaque
slow on uptake
stolid
thick

I think the correct answer is that neither people who say grace nor people who do not say grace eat with bigots who call their friends and acquaintances hurtful names behind their backs.

Better yet: be honest and tell your friends you find them ignorant and simple, and let them know who you really are so they won’t be disappointed when they lose a friendship. They will be glad to not hang out with backstabbing people who judge them negatively and think they are superior to them.

You are being obtuse, or willfully ignorant, of the post. OP did not say either person thinks religious people are obtuse for saying grace in general, only when saying it in "mixed company". Please learn to read before you start lecturing others on their use of language.

This is definitely op.

“Please learn to read before you start lecturing others…”

Op- You are the smartest person ever. You are smarter than your spouse, your friends, etc.

You think you are so smart you can use a word that is extremely insulting to describe people you call your friends and nobody will catch on.

When someone points out what a disrespectful and two-faced person you are, you tell them to “learn to read.”

You think so very highly of yourself and think of other people as imbeciles.

Obtuse is an insult. To say call your friends obtuse, and to tell someone to “learn to read,” means you are snobby and rude, as well as a bigot.

That was not me. Also, these are not my friends I am talking about. Also you don’t know if I am the spouse with the first viewpoint or the second. It could be my spouse you have a quibble with.

I will be frank, though, that I do think you seem like an imbecile.

If you can’t admit to your position there is no point in engaging with you.

So don’t?

Intellectual honesty is about having high standards for the truth.

Intellectual dishonesty is the term for being dishonest without necessarily straight out lying.

A common way to be intellectually dishonest in a debate or discussion is to dodge questions while pretending you’re answering them. You’re not telling a lie, but you’re being dishonest when you manipulate the discussion this way.

op is being vague, weasel-wording, and duplicitous for a reason.

People who want actual discussion are honest and don’t manipulate others.

Wow, someone sure got their undies in a bunch on this one!

[Anonymous]

Performative prayer is so gross.

[Anonymous]

The host or hostess traditionally takes the first bite. So if they say grace you wait. If you are hosting, start chomping and let them do their thing before they chomp. Of course, you could wait but hey that might be too nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Performative prayer is so gross.

So are you

[Anonymous]

If someone says "we should say grace" I say "go right ahead" but don't hold hands or whatever physical things they do. Holding hands at the table is germy.

[Anonymous]

I'm Jewish. I invited a new family over for dinner once and they insisted on saying grace, ending with something like "in Jesus's name Amen."

I don't want to worship Jesus in my house. I was insulted and have not invited them back over since.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm Jewish. I invited a new family over for dinner once and they insisted on saying grace, ending with something like "in Jesus's name Amen."

I don't want to worship Jesus in my house. I was insulted and have not invited them back over since.

Sounds like they wanted to make a point. I don't blame you for not wanting to host them again.

[Anonymous]

I'm Jewish and have hosted many people in my home who wanted to say grace before a meal. I don't join them in the prayer but I will respectfully give them a moment to do what they wish to do before we all eat.

Why is this hard? They are being themselves, not evangelizing to me (which really would offend me), and I am being myself by not joining them, but respecting them.

Just respect one another. Don't make it an issue. Having to wait 25 seconds to eat your meal is just not an inconvenience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

I always ask guests if they are comfortable with it if we are hosting. If they are Jewish/ other faith tradition or from another country, I invite them to say whatever is their custom prior to eating. If we are at other peoples’ homes, I just follow their lead and don’t ask if it is OK to say grace.

[Anonymous]

Just said grace to myself in 4 seconds. If you've been doing it since childhood, it's super quick, quiet and doesn't hold anything up.

[Anonymous]

There is no real right or wrong in this situation, but I think most are in agreement that it is a social faux pas to impose one's grace-saying on a non-grace-saying host and guests. The kind that makes everything weird and gets one laughed at behind their back. I think the accepted thing to do is for the person to simply say grace on their own, not necessarily in their head, before eating, and let everyone else do as they wish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am having a disagreement with my spouse about saying grace in a setting where not everyone is a "grace sayer."

One of us thinks that people who say grace should be able to say it wherever they are, including at someone else's house (who do not say grace) or at a restaurant with others who do not participate in this practice. This person thinks that everyone else should respectfully remain silent and refrain from eating until the grace has been said.

The other of us thinks that saying grace in a "mixed" situation is a bit obtuse, and that those who customarily say grace can forgo it on these occasions or quietly say it in their head, but they should not say grace aloud and not expect others to delay their dining.

What does DCUM think?

I always ask guests if they are comfortable with it if we are hosting. If they are Jewish/ other faith tradition or from another country, I invite them to say whatever is their custom prior to eating. If we are at other peoples’ homes, I just follow their lead and don’t ask if it is OK to say grace.

I'd avoid dinner at your place if you did this. I'm sure you'd rather not be friends with a Jewish atheist anyway, but that would be quite awkward for me, and I would be cringing inside and so terribly uncomfortable. I think it's poor etiquette to make guests feel uncomfortable. But if you feel saying grace is that important, and you insist on hosting people who don't share your zealotry, then I guess you're willing to be a poor host.