Boundary study- how will Whitman be impacted (s/o)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

I don't have the money to buy in Bethesda or Potomac, so I have to live where I can afford to live. That shouldn't determine the quality of my kids' public education when there are schools in the same system full of rich, white kids doing incredibly well. Cut YOU a break? For what? Facing the reality that your kids benefit from having parents who can afford to live in a place with schools on the better end of a segregated school system?

dp.. mistake #1.. you think they are doing well because of the school. It's not the school.. it's that they come from families that can afford things like extra activities, pay for nice things, tutors, etc..

It's not about skin color, either, as there are well off black families in some of these schools.

It's a wealth gap; not a color gap.

What do you think Whitman provides that your school doesn't provide? And why do you think MCPS provides that at Whitman but not at your school?

When the Supreme Court rules that seeking racial diversity is not a sufficient justification to make educational decisions on the basis of race in about 6 weeks in the Harvard and UNC cases, MCPS will have to make decisions only on the basis of wealth.

PP here.. well, to be fair, wealth largely correlates to skin color.

But, I'm still wondering why the angry ^PP thinks it's the rich white students that makes the school good, and somehow, her kids going to school with rich white kids will make their kid do better.

Those rich kids, no matter the skin color, do well because the parents have the means to support them. A poor kid, irrespective of skin color, is not going to do better just by sitting next to a rich kid in health class or something.

Now granted, I do think schools that have too many low income students have specific issues to low income schools. And I would not want my kid to go to such a school. However, I also don't think my kids going to a lilly white wealthy school will make my kids any smarter or better -- and we are not in a W school.

I do think that the FARMS rate should be better spread out amongst the school, as much as possible, and if a boundary can be drawn such that an area that was bussed going one way for 20min now gets bussed going a different direction for 25 min to achieve that diversity is good.

First, I'm not angry. Second, I'm not a woman. The fact that you assumed both tells me all I need to know about you. Just chalk it up to the angry black lady. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

I don't have the money to buy in Bethesda or Potomac, so I have to live where I can afford to live. That shouldn't determine the quality of my kids' public education when there are schools in the same system full of rich, white kids doing incredibly well. Cut YOU a break? For what? Facing the reality that your kids benefit from having parents who can afford to live in a place with schools on the better end of a segregated school system?

So you then suggest bussing my kids to the school that you claim isn’t good enough for your kids? That seems fair. Even though I’m the one paying way more in property and local taxes (according to you since you say you can’t afford to live where I do). I have never been opposed to trying to make the lower performing schools Better. Whether that’s more money budgeted to them or more experienced principals placed in them. But the fact of the matter is that bussing kids from down south up north will never ever work because I will move or send my kids to private before I send them across the county. And as other posters have said, this isn’t an option most people want regardless of where they live.

Well if they're able to bus people who live next Einstein all the way to WJ they can also fix this.

From Einstein "all the way to WJ", a whole...4.3 or so miles. I can bike between the two schools in half an hour.

Congratulations! You’re gonna beat the Einstein Neighborhood to WJ school bus by 10+ minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So you then suggest bussing my kids to the school that you claim isn’t good enough for your kids? That seems fair. Even though I’m the one paying way more in property and local taxes (according to you since you say you can’t afford to live where I do). I have never been opposed to trying to make the lower performing schools Better. Whether that’s more money budgeted to them or more experienced principals placed in them. But the fact of the matter is that bussing kids from down south up north will never ever work because I will move or send my kids to private before I send them across the county. And as other posters have said, this isn’t an option most people want regardless of where they live.

"Across the county" from B-CC to Einstein?

If you want to move or send your kids to private school, that's ok, please do. We will manage without you.

The area in South Kensington assigned to BCC seems a lot closer to Einstein so this would reduce transportation costs and allow their kids to be attend their neighborhood school.

South Kensington is 2.1 miles from Einstein and 2.5 miles from BCC. Since they built the new BCC cluster middle school within this neighborhood not too long ago, it seems likely it will remain zoned to BCC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So you then suggest bussing my kids to the school that you claim isn’t good enough for your kids? That seems fair. Even though I’m the one paying way more in property and local taxes (according to you since you say you can’t afford to live where I do). I have never been opposed to trying to make the lower performing schools Better. Whether that’s more money budgeted to them or more experienced principals placed in them. But the fact of the matter is that bussing kids from down south up north will never ever work because I will move or send my kids to private before I send them across the county. And as other posters have said, this isn’t an option most people want regardless of where they live.

"Across the county" from B-CC to Einstein?

If you want to move or send your kids to private school, that's ok, please do. We will manage without you.

The area in South Kensington assigned to BCC seems a lot closer to Einstein so this would reduce transportation costs and allow their kids to be attend their neighborhood school.

South Kensington is 2.1 miles from Einstein and 2.5 miles from BCC. Since they built the new BCC cluster middle school within this neighborhood not too long ago, it seems likely it will remain zoned to BCC.

It's the BCC cluster middle school because that's the cluster they put it. If they put it in a different cluster, it would be the (or a) Different cluster middle school. Or, it could be split-articulated! That is also an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

I don't have the money to buy in Bethesda or Potomac, so I have to live where I can afford to live. That shouldn't determine the quality of my kids' public education when there are schools in the same system full of rich, white kids doing incredibly well. Cut YOU a break? For what? Facing the reality that your kids benefit from having parents who can afford to live in a place with schools on the better end of a segregated school system?

So you then suggest bussing my kids to the school that you claim isn’t good enough for your kids? That seems fair. Even though I’m the one paying way more in property and local taxes (according to you since you say you can’t afford to live where I do). I have never been opposed to trying to make the lower performing schools Better. Whether that’s more money budgeted to them or more experienced principals placed in them. But the fact of the matter is that bussing kids from down south up north will never ever work because I will move or send my kids to private before I send them across the county. And as other posters have said, this isn’t an option most people want regardless of where they live.

Well if they're able to bus people who live next Einstein all the way to WJ they can also fix this.

From Einstein "all the way to WJ", a whole...4.3 or so miles. I can bike between the two schools in half an hour.

Congratulations! You’re gonna beat the Einstein Neighborhood to WJ school bus by 10+ minutes.

In that case - if the school bus is too slow for you, and biking is faster - then biking is always an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So you then suggest bussing my kids to the school that you claim isn’t good enough for your kids? That seems fair. Even though I’m the one paying way more in property and local taxes (according to you since you say you can’t afford to live where I do). I have never been opposed to trying to make the lower performing schools Better. Whether that’s more money budgeted to them or more experienced principals placed in them. But the fact of the matter is that bussing kids from down south up north will never ever work because I will move or send my kids to private before I send them across the county. And as other posters have said, this isn’t an option most people want regardless of where they live.

"Across the county" from B-CC to Einstein?

If you want to move or send your kids to private school, that's ok, please do. We will manage without you.

The area in South Kensington assigned to BCC seems a lot closer to Einstein so this would reduce transportation costs and allow their kids to be attend their neighborhood school.

The neighborhood school for South Kensington, currently, is B-CC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

The staff and consultants don’t have the guts to do radical boundary changes. Greater Greater Washington proposed a radical solution a few years ago. The thing is, the vast majority appear to be satisfied with the status quo: Neighborhood schools in the west of the county and Down County Consortium in the east. MCPS is also hamstrung by political pressure from the well to do.

What was GGW's radical solution?

"GGW" did not propose anything. Dan Reed did, in 2013, and reading what he wrote now, none of it looks radical.

http://www.justupthepike.com/2013/07/integrateMCPS.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

The staff and consultants don’t have the guts to do radical boundary changes. Greater Greater Washington proposed a radical solution a few years ago. The thing is, the vast majority appear to be satisfied with the status quo: Neighborhood schools in the west of the county and Down County Consortium in the east. MCPS is also hamstrung by political pressure from the well to do.

What was GGW's radical solution?

"GGW" did not propose anything. Dan Reed did, in 2013, and reading what he wrote now, none of it looks radical.

http://www.justupthepike.com/2013/07/integrateMCPS.html

The status quo is the path of least resistance. The planned boundary changes most likely won’t overhaul the demographic makeup among the MCPS schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

The staff and consultants don’t have the guts to do radical boundary changes. Greater Greater Washington proposed a radical solution a few years ago. The thing is, the vast majority appear to be satisfied with the status quo: Neighborhood schools in the west of the county and Down County Consortium in the east. MCPS is also hamstrung by political pressure from the well to do.

What was GGW's radical solution?

"GGW" did not propose anything. Dan Reed did, in 2013, and reading what he wrote now, none of it looks radical.

http://www.justupthepike.com/2013/07/integrateMCPS.html

The status quo is the path of least resistance. The planned boundary changes most likely won’t overhaul the demographic makeup among the MCPS schools.

No status quo is possible, unless they decide to make Woodward a 100% choice school, which would also not be status quo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

The staff and consultants don’t have the guts to do radical boundary changes. Greater Greater Washington proposed a radical solution a few years ago. The thing is, the vast majority appear to be satisfied with the status quo: Neighborhood schools in the west of the county and Down County Consortium in the east. MCPS is also hamstrung by political pressure from the well to do.

What was GGW's radical solution?

"GGW" did not propose anything. Dan Reed did, in 2013, and reading what he wrote now, none of it looks radical.

http://www.justupthepike.com/2013/07/integrateMCPS.html

Change school boundaries to improve balance. Today, students living in the affluent town of Kensington attend Walter Johnson High School in Bethesda, which is 4 miles away and gaining students. Why not send them to Albert Einstein High School one mile away, which has more low-income students, is expected to shrink in the coming years, and is becoming a sought-after school?

This would undoubtedly be an unpopular decision, but it would reduce the cost of transportation and improve socioeconomic balance. And there are other cases like this around the county. There's no real reason why this shouldn't happen.

Bring back "controlled choice." The Northeast and Downcounty consortia were supposed to encourage integration, but when affluent families in the Sherwood and Bethesda-Chevy Chase clusters balked, MCPS took those schools out, defeating the consortia's entire purpose. It's time to bring them back, as well as eliminate the "base areas" that force most consortia students to attend their neighborhood school, whether or not they want to.[b]

Seems like a missed opportunity that we can finally correct!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

The staff and consultants don’t have the guts to do radical boundary changes. Greater Greater Washington proposed a radical solution a few years ago. The thing is, the vast majority appear to be satisfied with the status quo: Neighborhood schools in the west of the county and Down County Consortium in the east. MCPS is also hamstrung by political pressure from the well to do.

What was GGW's radical solution?

"GGW" did not propose anything. Dan Reed did, in 2013, and reading what he wrote now, none of it looks radical.

http://www.justupthepike.com/2013/07/integrateMCPS.html

Change school boundaries to improve balance. Today, students living in the affluent town of Kensington attend Walter Johnson High School in Bethesda, which is 4 miles away and gaining students. Why not send them to Albert Einstein High School one mile away, which has more low-income students, is expected to shrink in the coming years, and is becoming a sought-after school?

This would undoubtedly be an unpopular decision, but it would reduce the cost of transportation and improve socioeconomic balance. And there are other cases like this around the county. There's no real reason why this shouldn't happen.

Bring back "controlled choice." The Northeast and Downcounty consortia were supposed to encourage integration, but when affluent families in the Sherwood and Bethesda-Chevy Chase clusters balked, MCPS took those schools out, defeating the consortia's entire purpose. It's time to bring them back, as well as eliminate the "base areas" that force most consortia students to attend their neighborhood school, whether or not they want to.[b]

Seems like a missed opportunity that we can finally correct!

"We" who? Are you on the Board of Education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

The staff and consultants don’t have the guts to do radical boundary changes. Greater Greater Washington proposed a radical solution a few years ago. The thing is, the vast majority appear to be satisfied with the status quo: Neighborhood schools in the west of the county and Down County Consortium in the east. MCPS is also hamstrung by political pressure from the well to do.

What was GGW's radical solution?

"GGW" did not propose anything. Dan Reed did, in 2013, and reading what he wrote now, none of it looks radical.

http://www.justupthepike.com/2013/07/integrateMCPS.html

Change school boundaries to improve balance. Today, students living in the affluent town of Kensington attend Walter Johnson High School in Bethesda, which is 4 miles away and gaining students. Why not send them to Albert Einstein High School one mile away, which has more low-income students, is expected to shrink in the coming years, and is becoming a sought-after school?

This would undoubtedly be an unpopular decision, but it would reduce the cost of transportation and improve socioeconomic balance. And there are other cases like this around the county. There's no real reason why this shouldn't happen.

Bring back "controlled choice." The Northeast and Downcounty consortia were supposed to encourage integration, but when affluent families in the Sherwood and Bethesda-Chevy Chase clusters balked, MCPS took those schools out, defeating the consortia's entire purpose. It's time to bring them back, as well as eliminate the "base areas" that force most consortia students to attend their neighborhood school, whether or not they want to.[b]

Seems like a missed opportunity that we can finally correct!

Except that Einstein did not "shrink in the coming years," it grew more and more overcrowded every year. I'm fine in theory with them moving the TOK to Einstein, but that means they will need to rezone even more current Einstein students than they already needed to. Woodlin and Flora Singer make the most sense to rezone, since they're furthest away, but they are also further from Woodward. Woodlin to BCC could possibly work, but I don't think there's enough room. Singer to Northwood? Northwood will need to take on most of Blair's overcrowding, so...really not a lot of great options.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

I don't have the money to buy in Bethesda or Potomac, so I have to live where I can afford to live. That shouldn't determine the quality of my kids' public education when there are schools in the same system full of rich, white kids doing incredibly well. Cut YOU a break? For what? Facing the reality that your kids benefit from having parents who can afford to live in a place with schools on the better end of a segregated school system?

dp.. mistake #1.. you think they are doing well because of the school. It's not the school.. it's that they come from families that can afford things like extra activities, pay for nice things, tutors, etc..

It's not about skin color, either, as there are well off black families in some of these schools.

It's a wealth gap; not a color gap.

What do you think Whitman provides that your school doesn't provide? And why do you think MCPS provides that at Whitman but not at your school?

When the Supreme Court rules that seeking racial diversity is not a sufficient justification to make educational decisions on the basis of race in about 6 weeks in the Harvard and UNC cases, MCPS will have to make decisions only on the basis of wealth.

PP here.. well, to be fair, wealth largely correlates to skin color.

But, I'm still wondering why the angry ^PP thinks it's the rich white students that makes the school good, and somehow, her kids going to school with rich white kids will make their kid do better.

Those rich kids, no matter the skin color, do well because the parents have the means to support them. A poor kid, irrespective of skin color, is not going to do better just by sitting next to a rich kid in health class or something.

Now granted, I do think schools that have too many low income students have specific issues to low income schools. And I would not want my kid to go to such a school. However, I also don't think my kids going to a lilly white wealthy school will make my kids any smarter or better -- and we are not in a W school.

I do think that the FARMS rate should be better spread out amongst the school, as much as possible, and if a boundary can be drawn such that an area that was bussed going one way for 20min now gets bussed going a different direction for 25 min to achieve that diversity is good.

First, I'm not angry. Second, I'm not a woman. The fact that you assumed both tells me all I need to know about you. Just chalk it up to the angry black lady. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

1. most posters on this forum are women
2. you are angry though, no matter the gender

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Montgomery county is a massive district (too big IMO) and therefore you’re going to see a wide variety of neighborhoods. Just like everywhere else in the country, some of those neighborhoods will be wealthier and some will be less so. And typically the wealthier neighborhoods will be perceived as having “better” schools because the parents will be more involved, they’re able to raise more money, etc etc. This is not novel to mcps but it seems like more pronounced because of the large size of the school system.
But without busing students far distances, you’re not going to be able change the socioeconomic nature of the wealthier schools unless you start making affordable housing more prevalent. And given even “well to do” people are having trouble currently purchasing homes in bounds for Whitman, it seems highly unlikely anything will change.

This is exactly why nothing gets done to make MCPS schools less segregated and more equitable. Ok, so the county school system is very big and encompasses a wide variety of communities. That can't be an excuse to maintain segregated schools with vastly different performance results within the same system. The BOE talks a mean game about transformational change but then points to housing policy and the county council as the only way to make changes. The county council sidesteps the politically toxic issue of school boundaries by saying it's not their issue and pushing it back to the BOE. Rinse. Repeat.

So what would you propose? I ask this honestly. How would you fix the problem?

Buses

You’d bus kids far away to diversify the schools? You do realize NO ONE wants this right? Not the parents in high SES schools and not the parents in lower ones.

Then how would you fix the segregated schools?

There are dozens of highly paid and qualified MCPS staff and consultants who should be able to figure this one out. Why is it up to the victims of the segregation to propose the solution?

The victims of segregation?? Please. You bought it rented your home knowing what school you were zoned for. Cut me a break.

I don't have the money to buy in Bethesda or Potomac, so I have to live where I can afford to live. That shouldn't determine the quality of my kids' public education when there are schools in the same system full of rich, white kids doing incredibly well. Cut YOU a break? For what? Facing the reality that your kids benefit from having parents who can afford to live in a place with schools on the better end of a segregated school system?

dp.. mistake #1.. you think they are doing well because of the school. It's not the school.. it's that they come from families that can afford things like extra activities, pay for nice things, tutors, etc..

It's not about skin color, either, as there are well off black families in some of these schools.

It's a wealth gap; not a color gap.

What do you think Whitman provides that your school doesn't provide? And why do you think MCPS provides that at Whitman but not at your school?

When the Supreme Court rules that seeking racial diversity is not a sufficient justification to make educational decisions on the basis of race in about 6 weeks in the Harvard and UNC cases, MCPS will have to make decisions only on the basis of wealth.

PP here.. well, to be fair, wealth largely correlates to skin color.

But, I'm still wondering why the angry ^PP thinks it's the rich white students that makes the school good, and somehow, her kids going to school with rich white kids will make their kid do better.

Those rich kids, no matter the skin color, do well because the parents have the means to support them. A poor kid, irrespective of skin color, is not going to do better just by sitting next to a rich kid in health class or something.

Now granted, I do think schools that have too many low income students have specific issues to low income schools. And I would not want my kid to go to such a school. However, I also don't think my kids going to a lilly white wealthy school will make my kids any smarter or better -- and we are not in a W school.

I do think that the FARMS rate should be better spread out amongst the school, as much as possible, and if a boundary can be drawn such that an area that was bussed going one way for 20min now gets bussed going a different direction for 25 min to achieve that diversity is good.

First, I'm not angry. Second, I'm not a woman. The fact that you assumed both tells me all I need to know about you. Just chalk it up to the angry black lady. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

1. most posters on this forum are women
2. you are angry though, no matter the gender

DP. If the PP says they're not angry, there's a good chance they know better about their own state of mind than you do. Also, even if the PP were angry, that would be fine. There is plenty to be angry about. It's even fine to be a woman who is angry.

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So you then suggest bussing my kids to the school that you claim isn’t good enough for your kids? That seems fair. Even though I’m the one paying way more in property and local taxes (according to you since you say you can’t afford to live where I do). I have never been opposed to trying to make the lower performing schools Better. Whether that’s more money budgeted to them or more experienced principals placed in them. But the fact of the matter is that bussing kids from down south up north will never ever work because I will move or send my kids to private before I send them across the county. And as other posters have said, this isn’t an option most people want regardless of where they live.

"Across the county" from B-CC to Einstein?

If you want to move or send your kids to private school, that's ok, please do. We will manage without you.

The area in South Kensington assigned to BCC seems a lot closer to Einstein so this would reduce transportation costs and allow their kids to be attend their neighborhood school.

South Kensington is 2.1 miles from Einstein and 2.5 miles from BCC. Since they built the new BCC cluster middle school within this neighborhood not too long ago, it seems likely it will remain zoned to BCC.

Nah, just reassign that MS to Einstein or even use a split-articulation model. We shouldn't be paying to bus kids all over the place. We need boundaries that reinforce this idea of neighborhood schools. Most people are for this, but this is an exception where a small group of privileged parents feel their too good for their neighborhood.