South Dakota forcing trans kids to detransition

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't legally sign a contract to buy a car, a house, etc. until you're 18, but you can have a double mastectomy (and yes, this is happening to minors).

Puberty blockers aren't anything to be taken lightly either. Many think the results are reversible, but that's not often the case.

Many European countries are reversing course on these medical "interventions", even progressive Sweden, Finland, Denmark...


Please find me one exame of a pre 18 year old having a double mastectomy.


Not hard to do

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html


WHO CARES??!! You worry about your kids, let other people worry about their kids!!!!! Who the hell do people think they are to even have an opinion on this if it's not their family member. Mind your own damn business and stop it with all this crap.


NP. My child will never get any sort of “puberty blockers” while they’re under 18. Ever. Still good?


Has your kid come out to you as transgender and asked for puberty blockers or HRT?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't legally sign a contract to buy a car, a house, etc. until you're 18, but you can have a double mastectomy (and yes, this is happening to minors).

Puberty blockers aren't anything to be taken lightly either. Many think the results are reversible, but that's not often the case.

Many European countries are reversing course on these medical "interventions", even progressive Sweden, Finland, Denmark...


Please find me one exame of a pre 18 year old having a double mastectomy.


Not hard to do

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html


WHO CARES??!! You worry about your kids, let other people worry about their kids!!!!! Who the hell do people think they are to even have an opinion on this if it's not their family member. Mind your own damn business and stop it with all this crap.


NP. My child will never get any sort of “puberty blockers” while they’re under 18. Ever. Still good?


Sure. Stay out of my business with my kid. Now we good?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Those who support hormones and surgeries for minors should read some posts on r/detrans. The stories of regret are compelling.


So are the ones of the families and friends of people who committed suicide, or people who had to stay closeted because they feared for their safety if they transitioned openly.


+1

Someone upthread said something sensible like perhaps there needs to be more stringent rules around this and I agree with that person.

But I also don’t trust the hateful people in the GOP to want to do anything even slightly supportive of LGBTQIA+. They don’t actually care about the children in these circumstances; if they did they wouldn’t try to turn up the anti-trans temperature with everything they do.


You are missing the huge numbers of traditionally left-leaning people deeply concerned about what is happening to young people in gender clinics today. This whistle blower, herself married to a transman, who couldn’t take it anymore and left her job at a gender clinic and is now speaking out. This isn’t and shouldn’t be a left-right issue. https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

It shouldn’t be political, no. But show me a single example of a Republican acting in good faith towards the entire LGBTQIA+ population, excluding those who have children in that population. They don’t. This isn’t a movement to save children from irreparable harm, this is another move by Republicans to make life as a trans person more dangerous. That’s all. You ascribe different motivations based on your feelings about Republicans.

And for the record, I am a deep blue Democrat who violates the predominant beliefs and doesn’t believe that trans people are the sex they want to be, but I’m also aware enough to treat each and every trans person with respect. I just don’t think the GOP cares a whit about children. They don’t.


And I don’t care about the motivations of people on the right. Children are being harmed by the current “affirmative-only” approach to transgender issues. I am not the only traditionally left-leaning person who thinks people have lost their minds on this issue. We are sacrificing a generation of our brightest, quirkiest, most-sensitive girls who in another time would have been goth or emo or cutters or anorexics, and telling them they were born in the wrong body and can be fixed with hormones and surgery. This is not okay. Pharmaceutical companies are getting rich because a bunch of well-meaning leftists can’t fathom agreeing with someone across the aisle. Open your eyes to the medical abomination that is happening right now. Children cannot consent to these treatments. This is not okay.


So do you (and any other liberals who oppose treating trans kids) think that trans adults should receive medical treatment, or do you think that trans people are mentally ill and need to accept the gender they were assigned at birth and work through their issues in therapy without hormone treatments?


I believe there really are trans people, it's just very rare, and adults should pursue treatment for valid cases. I think a large percentage of trans kids are not actually trans and are questioning themselves due to social media influences and social pressures. Kids and teens should not be guided into life altering surgery unless they have shown signs of gender dysphoria their whole life. I think it's safe to say a high percentage will revert back to their original pronouns as they grow into adulthood or even go off to college.


+1. I think there is normal questioning of your sexual orientation and gender identity in adolescence. I am a happily married cis female and as a teen I briefly had a crush on a girl and also spent time wondering if life would be better as a boy because I didn't fit in with girly girls. I am glad am not going through that today. Just watched my nieces fi through similar questioning in their teens. Nowadays kids are able to be more open and vocal about those thoughts and feelings, which is good. However well meaning adults or friends may jump the gun in believing those verbalized thoughts are indicative of something more than it is.


Do you think the trans people you believe are really trans didn’t find out they were trans until they were adults?


+1

I'm trans. I knew my whole life even if I didn't know the words for it. I had pretty much all the stereotypical childhood dysphoria. I would go into my mom's closet and try on her skirt and walk in her heels. When your cis daughter does this, it cute and she's being like mommy. When the "son" does it, it's a shameful experience and they are told not to do this. It's wrong you're told. I grew up wishing I was a girl every day of my life. I went to bed every night praying to god that I wake up a girl. It never happened and I stopped believing in god. I knew with my earliest memories.

I have no experience with what it's like being an out trans kid today but I can speak from my own experience and I knew that I was trans. I wish puberty blockers were a thing back then. Instead I've spent a small fortune on hair removal and voice coaching in order to achieve a more feminine voice since I went through male puberty. I know several trans women that had to pull their retirement savings for bottom surgery. I know one that sold her house and used the proceeds for facial feminization surgery (this can cost upwards of $80,000) due to her genetics and male puberty. The tragedy of someone going on testosterone then realizing they're a cis woman and dealing with this sort of thing? I'm all too familiar with the experience. It is tragic. It's traumatic. Something inside of me shattered when I started growing facial hair so I understand how they feel. The difference is, people are trying to pass laws protecting these cis people from making mistakes and simply ignoring or outright disregarding the reality for those of us that are actually transgender.

I don't pretend to understand how someone makes it all the way through getting surgery then realizing they're not trans but it does seem to happen in some situations. While I personally don't agree with banning gender affirming care for those under 18, a ban on surgery wouldn't affect very many people as it's rare so maybe that is a good compromise. Kim Petras is the youngest woman to get a vaginoplasty in the world and as far as I know, she hasn't regretted it. Puberty blockers for AMAB trans girls are absolutely a necessity if they wish to avoid going through male puberty and the irreversible changes to the body it causes. It can't be considered a tragedy for cis girls to make a mistake and deal with the changes caused by male puberty but not for trans girls. The argument against puberty blockers is that you might get osteoporosis in old age which is something that could happen anyway. While there are some edge cases where someone has really negative experiences with the medication, that is true of literally every medication. To me, the issue here is that so many cisgender people are sympathizing with a small number of cis people that made a mistake in transitioning while ignoring and not at all sympathizing with the actual trans kids that you're trying to force through their natal puberty because we (trans people) make you feel icky.


Thank you taking the time to post this.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't legally sign a contract to buy a car, a house, etc. until you're 18, but you can have a double mastectomy (and yes, this is happening to minors).

Puberty blockers aren't anything to be taken lightly either. Many think the results are reversible, but that's not often the case.

Many European countries are reversing course on these medical "interventions", even progressive Sweden, Finland, Denmark...


Please find me one exame of a pre 18 year old having a double mastectomy.


Not hard to do

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html


WHO CARES??!! You worry about your kids, let other people worry about their kids!!!!! Who the hell do people think they are to even have an opinion on this if it's not their family member. Mind your own damn business and stop it with all this crap.


NP. My child will never get any sort of “puberty blockers” while they’re under 18. Ever. Still good?


Sure. Stay out of my business with my kid. Now we good?


Will you report a parent to CPS if they refuse to consent to such treatment on their child?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't legally sign a contract to buy a car, a house, etc. until you're 18, but you can have a double mastectomy (and yes, this is happening to minors).

Puberty blockers aren't anything to be taken lightly either. Many think the results are reversible, but that's not often the case.

Many European countries are reversing course on these medical "interventions", even progressive Sweden, Finland, Denmark...


Please find me one exame of a pre 18 year old having a double mastectomy.


Not hard to do

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html


WHO CARES??!! You worry about your kids, let other people worry about their kids!!!!! Who the hell do people think they are to even have an opinion on this if it's not their family member. Mind your own damn business and stop it with all this crap.


NP. My child will never get any sort of “puberty blockers” while they’re under 18. Ever. Still good?


Sure. Stay out of my business with my kid. Now we good?


Will you report a parent to CPS if they refuse to consent to such treatment on their child?


If you see a parent consenting to such a treatment in Texas, will you report them to CPS?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't legally sign a contract to buy a car, a house, etc. until you're 18, but you can have a double mastectomy (and yes, this is happening to minors).

Puberty blockers aren't anything to be taken lightly either. Many think the results are reversible, but that's not often the case.

Many European countries are reversing course on these medical "interventions", even progressive Sweden, Finland, Denmark...


Please find me one exame of a pre 18 year old having a double mastectomy.


Not hard to do

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html


WHO CARES??!! You worry about your kids, let other people worry about their kids!!!!! Who the hell do people think they are to even have an opinion on this if it's not their family member. Mind your own damn business and stop it with all this crap.


NP. My child will never get any sort of “puberty blockers” while they’re under 18. Ever. Still good?


Sure. Stay out of my business with my kid. Now we good?


Will you report a parent to CPS if they refuse to consent to such treatment on their child?


WTH are you even blathering about? Why are you so concerned about other people and CPS? WORRY ABOUT YOUR KID. Or in your instance, ignore any issues they may have for fear of being “woke.”
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't legally sign a contract to buy a car, a house, etc. until you're 18, but you can have a double mastectomy (and yes, this is happening to minors).

Puberty blockers aren't anything to be taken lightly either. Many think the results are reversible, but that's not often the case.

Many European countries are reversing course on these medical "interventions", even progressive Sweden, Finland, Denmark...


Please find me one exame of a pre 18 year old having a double mastectomy.


Not hard to do

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html


WHO CARES??!! You worry about your kids, let other people worry about their kids!!!!! Who the hell do people think they are to even have an opinion on this if it's not their family member. Mind your own damn business and stop it with all this crap.


NP. My child will never get any sort of “puberty blockers” while they’re under 18. Ever. Still good?


Sure. Stay out of my business with my kid. Now we good?


Will you report a parent to CPS if they refuse to consent to such treatment on their child?


PP with trans son here. No, and my trans son has a friend who was in that boat. I know the mom. She believes the child is trans, but refuses to call them by the name they’ve chosen. Agreed to they/them pronouns as a compromise but won’t use he/him. Uses an initial as a compromise because she won’t use the chosen name. I’m friendly with the mom because our kids are friends. Her reasons for not using the name her child chose are that as the mom, she put a lot of thought into the feminine name she chose for her child* and because the child tried on a different name before settling on this final one and she’s afraid they’ll switch again. She would let them do therapy but no meds. At one point, she was willing to allow top surgery but still no hormones, but we lost touch during Covid and I don’t know what happened.

I don’t know her child well enough to know if they were trans. I don’t think I’m qualified to judge. What I do know is that when I met them, I throughly they were a boy, and they seemed happy, but the mom corrected me and the kid seemed crushed. For years, the kid seemed to consistently be a good kid, have good grades, make good choices, hate being called their given name, and present as androgynous to boyish, before puberty and after. What I saw and heard through my son was a kid with growing resentment of their parents for giving in on small things but having to fight so hard to be heard that they were exhausted and sad. I heard a kid biding their time until they could go to college and escape. What I heard from the mom is someone who loved her child, believed her child, but opposed the changes the child wanted because she didn’t want to deal with explaining to other people that her daughter is now her son (she told me that). She was embarrassed that her kid was different (she told me that too). I felt so sad for her, watching her push her kid, a great kid, away from her because she wanted a “normal” kid who didn’t require an explanation. It really felt like a powder keg waiting to blow. I really hope they were able to find some way through it together.

*I admit, changing names was hard at first. I get how she feels to an extent. I knew I wanted children when I was young, and I always wanted to use this name. So when we had our first, I picked it because I didn’t know if we’d have another chance. DH didn’t love the name like I did, wasn’t in his top 5 list, but he didn’t veto it (we each had veto power) and let me choose it because I was the one doing the heavy lifting. Then I let him have the final say for our next daughter. So it felt a little like my wishes didn’t matter for either of our kids’ names in the end. And guess what. They don’t. As adults, they can choose whatever they want. If they marry, they can take their partner’s names or not. I learned to approach it with the mindset that I gave them their names as a gift and it’s up to them to do what they want with that gift, including not using it if it didn’t suit them. I raised them to be independent and know themselves well enough to make that choice, and I succeeded, even if they make different choices that I did/would. Especially if they make different choices.
Anonymous
Are there any studies or numbers on the suicide rates for trans teenagers? I’ve heard that it’s high, but don’t know specifics.
If there is data, has it changed over the years?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You can't legally sign a contract to buy a car, a house, etc. until you're 18, but you can have a double mastectomy (and yes, this is happening to minors).

Puberty blockers aren't anything to be taken lightly either. Many think the results are reversible, but that's not often the case.

Many European countries are reversing course on these medical "interventions", even progressive Sweden, Finland, Denmark...


Please find me one exame of a pre 18 year old having a double mastectomy.


Not hard to do

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/health/top-surgery-transgender-teenagers.html


WHO CARES??!! You worry about your kids, let other people worry about their kids!!!!! Who the hell do people think they are to even have an opinion on this if it's not their family member. Mind your own damn business and stop it with all this crap.


NP. My child will never get any sort of “puberty blockers” while they’re under 18. Ever. Still good?


Sure. Stay out of my business with my kid. Now we good?


Will you report a parent to CPS if they refuse to consent to such treatment on their child?


PP with trans son here. No, and my trans son has a friend who was in that boat. I know the mom. She believes the child is trans, but refuses to call them by the name they’ve chosen. Agreed to they/them pronouns as a compromise but won’t use he/him. Uses an initial as a compromise because she won’t use the chosen name. I’m friendly with the mom because our kids are friends. Her reasons for not using the name her child chose are that as the mom, she put a lot of thought into the feminine name she chose for her child* and because the child tried on a different name before settling on this final one and she’s afraid they’ll switch again. She would let them do therapy but no meds. At one point, she was willing to allow top surgery but still no hormones, but we lost touch during Covid and I don’t know what happened.

I don’t know her child well enough to know if they were trans. I don’t think I’m qualified to judge. What I do know is that when I met them, I throughly they were a boy, and they seemed happy, but the mom corrected me and the kid seemed crushed. For years, the kid seemed to consistently be a good kid, have good grades, make good choices, hate being called their given name, and present as androgynous to boyish, before puberty and after. What I saw and heard through my son was a kid with growing resentment of their parents for giving in on small things but having to fight so hard to be heard that they were exhausted and sad. I heard a kid biding their time until they could go to college and escape. What I heard from the mom is someone who loved her child, believed her child, but opposed the changes the child wanted because she didn’t want to deal with explaining to other people that her daughter is now her son (she told me that). She was embarrassed that her kid was different (she told me that too). I felt so sad for her, watching her push her kid, a great kid, away from her because she wanted a “normal” kid who didn’t require an explanation. It really felt like a powder keg waiting to blow. I really hope they were able to find some way through it together.

*I admit, changing names was hard at first. I get how she feels to an extent. I knew I wanted children when I was young, and I always wanted to use this name. So when we had our first, I picked it because I didn’t know if we’d have another chance. DH didn’t love the name like I did, wasn’t in his top 5 list, but he didn’t veto it (we each had veto power) and let me choose it because I was the one doing the heavy lifting. Then I let him have the final say for our next daughter. So it felt a little like my wishes didn’t matter for either of our kids’ names in the end. And guess what. They don’t. As adults, they can choose whatever they want. If they marry, they can take their partner’s names or not. I learned to approach it with the mindset that I gave them their names as a gift and it’s up to them to do what they want with that gift, including not using it if it didn’t suit them. I raised them to be independent and know themselves well enough to make that choice, and I succeeded, even if they make different choices that I did/would. Especially if they make different choices.


And no, I didn’t report her and her husband as abusers to the school, the therapist, or CPS. I never even told other parents who asked that I disagreed with her approach or thought she was doing harm to her child. It’s complicated. I’m going to stand in solidarity with parents of trans kids when they try to do the right thing, even if their choices are different than mine. We’re a fairly small group, and it’s hard enough to find support, much less someone who has shared the experience.

My approach to parenting a trans child shouldn’t be considered abusive or illegal either.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Are there any studies or numbers on the suicide rates for trans teenagers? I’ve heard that it’s high, but don’t know specifics.
If there is data, has it changed over the years?


It’s high. The main factor isn’t just that they’re trans, it’s that they’re trans and not supported by their family. When families are supportive, the numbers are lower.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are there any studies or numbers on the suicide rates for trans teenagers? I’ve heard that it’s high, but don’t know specifics.
If there is data, has it changed over the years?


It’s high. The main factor isn’t just that they’re trans, it’s that they’re trans and not supported by their family. When families are supportive, the numbers are lower.


I’m curious about the numbers in the 90’s, and 00’s.
I wonder if those numbers have changed.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are there any studies or numbers on the suicide rates for trans teenagers? I’ve heard that it’s high, but don’t know specifics.
If there is data, has it changed over the years?


It’s high. The main factor isn’t just that they’re trans, it’s that they’re trans and not supported by their family. When families are supportive, the numbers are lower.


I’m curious about the numbers in the 90’s, and 00’s.
I wonder if those numbers have changed.


You can Google it. I don’t have time. It’s been a steady thing though, lgbtq youth who are accepted have much lower rates of mental illness and death from suicide compared to those whose families are unsupportive, although both are higher than cishet youth. It’s probably something to do with it being acceptable in our society to treat them like deviants and politicians trying to make laws against them. Imagine being a trans youth in SD today. Even if your parents are supportive and helping you get treatment, state law says no, you shouldn’t exist, sorry. So what now? As a parent, I’d use the next year to find a new job and move to a state where treating my child isn’t illegal, but I know that would tear my son up because he’s feel responsible for upending our lives and causing us to move and change jobs. Those politicians feel like it’s more important to keep people closeted than to prevent suicides.
Anonymous
NP. There is no way I can believe the Republican Party cares about kids. No way at all. You cannot be the party that enables school shootings and strips children of education and expect me to believe you care at all about kids.

But you also can’t expect me to look around at the current landscape and not see how troubling this is. I believe we are going to look back at some aspects of gender affirmative care with the same horror that we regard lobotomies with, eventually. We will see that profit-based, male-dominated medicine targeted autistic, non-stereotypical, neurodiverse girls for life-altering and often sterilizing interventions. As a neuro-atypical woman, I look around at the language around trans, the enormous sexism in the trans movement, the rank misogyny, and it is horrifying.

I don’t know what the answer is. I believe there are indeed trans kids for whom gender affirming care is necessary. I also believe much of what had come to be known as “gender ideology” is horribly misogynist and ableist at its heart.

Maybe the answer is to focus on the financial. Right now gender clinics are hugely profitable for medicine. That profit taints decisions. So make the profit riskier. Allow doctors to prescribe blockers but extend the statute of limitations for malpractice claims to twenty years or something long. Remove all caps on malpractice settlement sizes. Enable large awards for kids who are harmed by gender-affirming care. If profits are taken out of this equation, what will happen?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Are there any studies or numbers on the suicide rates for trans teenagers? I’ve heard that it’s high, but don’t know specifics.
If there is data, has it changed over the years?


It’s high. The main factor isn’t just that they’re trans, it’s that they’re trans and not supported by their family. When families are supportive, the numbers are lower.


I’m curious about the numbers in the 90’s, and 00’s.
I wonder if those numbers have changed.


You can Google it. I don’t have time. It’s been a steady thing though, lgbtq youth who are accepted have much lower rates of mental illness and death from suicide compared to those whose families are unsupportive, although both are higher than cishet youth. It’s probably something to do with it being acceptable in our society to treat them like deviants and politicians trying to make laws against them. Imagine being a trans youth in SD today. Even if your parents are supportive and helping you get treatment, state law says no, you shouldn’t exist, sorry. So what now? As a parent, I’d use the next year to find a new job and move to a state where treating my child isn’t illegal, but I know that would tear my son up because he’s feel responsible for upending our lives and causing us to move and change jobs. Those politicians feel like it’s more important to keep people closeted than to prevent suicides.


Also, lgbtq youth who are not accepted by their families become runaways, homeless, and getting involved in dangerous things. So do cishet youth who are not accepted by their families and/or do not accept their families, fwiw.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:NP. There is no way I can believe the Republican Party cares about kids. No way at all. You cannot be the party that enables school shootings and strips children of education and expect me to believe you care at all about kids.

But you also can’t expect me to look around at the current landscape and not see how troubling this is. I believe we are going to look back at some aspects of gender affirmative care with the same horror that we regard lobotomies with, eventually. We will see that profit-based, male-dominated medicine targeted autistic, non-stereotypical, neurodiverse girls for life-altering and often sterilizing interventions. As a neuro-atypical woman, I look around at the language around trans, the enormous sexism in the trans movement, the rank misogyny, and it is horrifying.

I don’t know what the answer is. I believe there are indeed trans kids for whom gender affirming care is necessary. I also believe much of what had come to be known as “gender ideology” is horribly misogynist and ableist at its heart.

Maybe the answer is to focus on the financial. Right now gender clinics are hugely profitable for medicine. That profit taints decisions. So make the profit riskier. Allow doctors to prescribe blockers but extend the statute of limitations for malpractice claims to twenty years or something long. Remove all caps on malpractice settlement sizes. Enable large awards for kids who are harmed by gender-affirming care. If profits are taken out of this equation, what will happen?


Do you live in a bubble and have never ever met a Republican? Or do you just disbelieve them whenever they say something unobjectionable?
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