MIL wants to take kids out of the country without us

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Husband problem

+1000

Do all three of them totally lack any common sense too?

Both have physical health problems
Both are still recovery from surgeries or partial fixes to said health problems
Kids are young, <11 yo
Parent(s) not invited whatsoever
Unclear how long SIL (on crutches still?) has even lived there
Unclear if MIL has been there to visit yet or everything is new
Unclear where lodging is
Unclear who pays for flights, food, lodging, extras
Unclear how much documentation or what must be presented to leave or enter any country
Unclear if kids have camps or summer school or sports programs
Unclear if new places speaks English or not
Unclear if kids are comfortable with this or don’t care


And right off the bat they asked your husband if 75 yo single MIL could take an 8 and 10 yo boy to someplace in Europe to visit or stay with their Aunt who is an Expat there at the moment?

Still can’t believe they would ask all of you to go first. Did you all just get together last summer or something? Are there other grandchildren that MIL has traveled with?

[Anonymous]

This would be an absolute no for me but I must say it's quite interesting to see posters claiming it's "dramatic" to call a 75 yo elderly in this situation but if you read a thread about family members/ILs helping (or not) around the holidays with hosting/cooking etc all of a sudden anyone above the age of 55 is too "elderly" and tired to help with anything.

[Anonymous]

You really don’t have to burn all your vacation days on extended family. All go to alaska or Yellowstone or something new.

[Anonymous]

I'd say yes personally -- sounds awesome for all involved-- but that's not the point.

[Anonymous]

It is totally fine to say “no” to this. But your original post seemed angry they even asked — which I think is ridiculous. They were making what they thought was a nice offer. Say no graciously

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spent a week with my (childless) aunt in her home country the summer I was 10. It was a wonderful experience (and this was before the days of cell phones so I didn't speak to my parents for the entire week), and I would gladly send my kids to stay alone with my parents or sisters if they were invited. But my family is very close (we visit regularly and my parents provide some childcare during visits, etc.) and also realistic about what we handle. If the country in question is of equal safety/security to the country you live in, I guess I'm not seeing why this is so different then visiting grandma in CA from MD?

It depends on the country and the support. Traveling internationally is a lot more complicated than traveling domestically. Dealing with passports, customs and international laws is significantly more complicated. In addition. there are other countries that have kidnapping laws in place, so you want to make sure that if your children are traveling as unaccompanied minors or traveling with a non-guardian relative (like the grandmother), that you have the appropriate notarized documentation that includes both parents signature that she has authorization to take these children across international borders. Traveling internationally, when you have separate sovereign nation laws, rules, regulations and documentation, can be more difficult, especially if you are not the parent or legal guardian of the child traveling. Many Americans are not good at checking all of the appropriate laws and regulations when traveling internationally, especially if they are traveling to multiple counties and can get into all sorts of legal issues.

For example, I know of a family who was doing something similar (an aunt was taking her nieces to visit a grandparent in Europe). They traveled to one country where they had a layover and then traveled to the destination country. They did not check and they had documentation issues in the layover country and the delay in customs there caused them to miss their transfer flight. All because they didn't have a notarized document signed by both parents that the aunt was authorized to take the kids internationally. And she was not the legal guardian. She had their passports, but not documentation that the parents had approved the travel, so this took hours to resolve. Different nations have different laws and you have to adhere to all of them. When you are the parent, you have certain legal rights. But extended family, like the aunt I knew and OP's MIL (grandmother) are not guaranteed parental rights in international scenarios and that can complicate things.

When you travel from MD to CA, you are traveling entirely within the borders of one nation (the US) and you are not subject to varying international law. There is less complication when traveling intranationally vs internationally.

This is a lot of words that boils down to: Make sure you have passports and documents in order before you go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:During a Facetime call, my SIL tells DH that their mom would like to bring the kids to visit SIL who lives overseas in Europe over the summer. MIL was also on the call. My kids will be 8 and 10 during the summer. My MIL is 75 and divorced. My SIL (not married, no kids) has been recovering from a long term injury and uses crutches and has some mobility issues. My DH responded that they should talk to me about the kids schedule. I said no, the kids would not be going out of the country without us. They got quiet and changed the subject but I know the discussion is not over. They will try to talk to DH at a time when I am not present and beg him to try to persuade me to change my mind. If this persists, I want to respectfully say no and not create animosity.

First off, I am not comfortable having anyone take my kids out of the country. It has nothing to do with how much I trust my MIL. I wouldn't let anyone in my family take them either. My MIL is 75 and I would not risk a situation where she has a medical emergency and my kids are in another country with no one to bring them home. I don't want to risk a situation where one of the kids has a medical emergency and is in a hospital in another country and we are that far away from them.

I also think it is completely unreasonable to request to travel with young grandkids that far. SIL will be able to travel by summer. She can come to us to see the kids. There is no reason for MIL to take them to SIL. This is just something they want to do for the experience of it.

Putting aside any issues about who is paying for it, am I being unreasonable to say no?

I think you need to loosen up a bit. If you are not overly worried about Covid, then I would think this is such a great experience for the kids. They are still of age where an experience like this would be such a learning/bonding experience for them, especially with an abled grandparent and aunt. In a few years, dynamics will change completely. They become sulking teens who rather clutch onto their phones and will sigh up and down at the thought of no wifi. Mold them while they are young to learn and appreciate a different culture. Summertime is precious.

I wished my kids had this opportunity. We were stuck indoors when my older one hit MS during Covid time. Now he is in HS and it's nearly impossible to just commit an entire summer because the kids have their own schedules as they become teenagers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is totally fine to say “no” to this. But your original post seemed angry they even asked — which I think is ridiculous. They were making what they thought was a nice offer. Say no graciously

I think she’s angrier that DH opted to respond to his mom/sister before conferring with his wife. This screams poor boundaries/people-pleasing attitude toward his family of origin. I admittedly was guilty of similar behavior earlier in my marriage and it was difficult to unlearn (though I ultimately did).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spent a week with my (childless) aunt in her home country the summer I was 10. It was a wonderful experience (and this was before the days of cell phones so I didn't speak to my parents for the entire week), and I would gladly send my kids to stay alone with my parents or sisters if they were invited. But my family is very close (we visit regularly and my parents provide some childcare during visits, etc.) and also realistic about what we handle. If the country in question is of equal safety/security to the country you live in, I guess I'm not seeing why this is so different then visiting grandma in CA from MD?

It depends on the country and the support. Traveling internationally is a lot more complicated than traveling domestically. Dealing with passports, customs and international laws is significantly more complicated. In addition. there are other countries that have kidnapping laws in place, so you want to make sure that if your children are traveling as unaccompanied minors or traveling with a non-guardian relative (like the grandmother), that you have the appropriate notarized documentation that includes both parents signature that she has authorization to take these children across international borders. Traveling internationally, when you have separate sovereign nation laws, rules, regulations and documentation, can be more difficult, especially if you are not the parent or legal guardian of the child traveling. Many Americans are not good at checking all of the appropriate laws and regulations when traveling internationally, especially if they are traveling to multiple counties and can get into all sorts of legal issues.

For example, I know of a family who was doing something similar (an aunt was taking her nieces to visit a grandparent in Europe). They traveled to one country where they had a layover and then traveled to the destination country. They did not check and they had documentation issues in the layover country and the delay in customs there caused them to miss their transfer flight. All because they didn't have a notarized document signed by both parents that the aunt was authorized to take the kids internationally. And she was not the legal guardian. She had their passports, but not documentation that the parents had approved the travel, so this took hours to resolve. Different nations have different laws and you have to adhere to all of them. When you are the parent, you have certain legal rights. But extended family, like the aunt I knew and OP's MIL (grandmother) are not guaranteed parental rights in international scenarios and that can complicate things.

When you travel from MD to CA, you are traveling entirely within the borders of one nation (the US) and you are not subject to varying international law. There is less complication when traveling intranationally vs internationally.

I had been assuming (as is the case in my family) that the parents/kids had travelled many times to and from the country MIL/SIL live in. If we travelled with only one parent, we always had a notarized letter from the other parent stating the permission to travel. Isn't that standard for people who travel internationally with their kids? If OP and her family aren't comfortable with international travel then of course this would be a scary thing but if your family lives abroad usually international travel is as or more common than domestic travel.

That being said, OP knows her own ILs and risk/comfort level best. It's totally fine for her to say no if she's not comfortable with the situation! But I got the impression from her post she was almost offended that the invitation had even been extended which I do think is a bit much. It's fine for them to invite, even though it's also fine for her to say no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Everyone involved is American. SIL just lives and works overseas. We take trips with them and the kids overseas almost once a year. DH is a pushover and gives in regularly to demands from MIL and SIL that overstep normal boundaries. The FaceTime call included the kids so no, it was not a private conversation. I don’t think they had bad intentions but they often request things from us and then act offended if we say no. Last year, SIL requested to stay with us, along with MIL for 3 weeks during the last month of school when i already had my own family coming for a week right after. When I suggested another time, it didn’t go over well.

I’m fine doing a trip with them over the summer as long as we can get some separate time alone as a family. I would be okay if the kids stayed with her for a weekend while my husband and I traveled somewhere nearby. I’m just not okay with parents being across the ocean. I wouldn’t want my husband to go without me either. They simply want the experience of being alone with the kids.

I appreciate the responses because this is what I needed to know I wasn’t being unreasonable.

You know, it's more work for them to deal with your two kids. They have to feed them and entertain them and pay for touristy attractions. Honestly, you make it out to be a favor you're doing them to take your kids on an international experience. I would thank my SIL and MIL if they had offered this. Whether I would let my kids go is a different story but I would never think bad intentions.

[Anonymous]

My granny took me to England when I was 10 and then died shortly thereafter of an aggressive cancer. It was a highlight of my childhood and really my only clear memories of her.

My knee jerk with my in-laws would also be no, but I would weigh if there’s any way to do it safely to not deprive my kids of a similar memory with their grandparents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My granny took me to England when I was 10 and then died shortly thereafter of an aggressive cancer. It was a highlight of my childhood and really my only clear memories of her.

My knee jerk with my in-laws would also be no, but I would weigh if there’s any way to do it safely to not deprive my kids of a similar memory with their grandparents

Also I went on other European trips with my parents. The reason this was so special was because it was just me and granny outside of my day to day family dynamics

[Anonymous]

I would not let them go to another country with out me or my husband. That’s a no. I wouldn’t let them go with my parents or the in laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you the poster whose SIL needed to have surgery and wanted to stay in your home while she recuperated and couldn’t walk for weeks, along with your MIL? If so, it sounds like there is already a history of overstepping with those two. Just curious, how did that situation end?

As written, that doesn’t sound like overstepping… sounds like what you do for close family.

I agree. If my sister had surgery and can't walk, I would ask her to stay at my home. If my mom wanted to stay to help out so it's less burden on me, even better.

It worries me how toxic family relationship is her in the US. I was born in another country but grew up here since I was 3. I love that we are close and don't have to be walking on eggshells with my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Of course it would be a special memory IF everything goes well. The issue is that a lot can go wrong when traveling to another country and I’m not comfortable with those risks because of how young my children are right now. I would consider it when they are older teens.

No one has offered to pay for this trip. Finances were not discussed so I have no idea if they plan to pay for the trip or expect us to purchase tickets. That is why I took that issue out of the equation.

During the call, the question was directed at DH, not me. They only knew I was present in the room.

DH was not invited so that was not an option. However, my DH has a job that makes it difficult to get away. We specifically plan family vacations at specific times that allow for it. Our vacation time together is very important. If he takes the kids without me, I’m losing precious family time together. We regularly incorporate DH’s family into our overseas vacations and pay for a house for everyone to stay together. We regularly host them for long stays at our house.

I promise I am not uptight. I am overly tolerant (to a fault) of how much they expect of us. But given that SIL has been dealing with health problems for over a year due to an accident and MIL went through a hospital stay and months of recovery a year ago due to an unexpected illness, I am not paranoid to worry that unexpected things could happen. A trip with their aunt and grandmother might be nice but is not necessary given that we plan special trips and experiences with them already.

I will propose another trip with them again this summer, but it has to include the parents.

It's okay that you say no, but stop being overly dramatic, OP. Goodness. Life is short, try to see good intent in what people do. If it's bad intent, you can still say no. No one is kidnapping your children to North Korea!