MIL wants to take kids out of the country without us

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I'd feel better about kids alone or with grandma on the streets of most European destinations vs many US cities.

Have you had experience living and visiting various European cities? I’d love to know what you base your opinion on.

[Anonymous]

How much fun would such a trip really be for elementary aged kids if the aunt is not very mobile? MIL is not terribly elderly, but certainly no spring chicken to be entertaining young kids who will likely be expecting to be on an active vacation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I'd feel better about kids alone or with grandma on the streets of most European destinations vs many US cities.

Have you had experience living and visiting various European cities? I’d love to know what you base your opinion on.

I base my opinion on having lived in various European cities over the period of 15 years and on visiting many more. Good enough?

[Anonymous]

LOL I wouldn't let my MIL take my kids to the mall alone. Hard pass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much fun would such a trip really be for elementary aged kids if the aunt is not very mobile? MIL is not terribly elderly, but certainly no spring chicken to be entertaining young kids who will likely be expecting to be on an active vacation.

This might be a little off topic, but these types of comments tend to trigger me a bit. My kids have grandparents with significant disabilities. One is severely mobility impaired and one is completely blind. Our kids have spent time alone with these grandparents since birth, and have gone on trips with both without us as well. My kids both enjoy the time spent with their grandparents enjoying the world AND learn that disabilities don't have to define or limit a person's experience of the world.

Stepping off soapbox....OP is perfectly fine to say that she doesn't want her kids out of the country without her. Makes sense. But it worries me when we slip into thinking that people with disabilities, or even limitations, can't take care of children. Heck, my MIL was once a fully blind mother raising my DH as an infant and toddler. It worked out fine.

[Anonymous]

Wow, I'm really shocked by the first few pages of responses.

I wouldn't let my kids go with my 75-year-old mom because she has dementia but would let them go with my 75-year-old dad (parents are divorced). It does depend on the country. England? France? Yes. Ukraine? No.

I'm wondering if the people saying no haven't traveled internationally with their kids before. It's really not that big of a deal. My twins are 8, for what it's worth, so I'm not out of touch with the age at issue here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I'm really shocked by the first few pages of responses.

I wouldn't let my kids go with my 75-year-old mom because she has dementia but would let them go with my 75-year-old dad (parents are divorced). It does depend on the country. England? France? Yes. Ukraine? No.

I'm wondering if the people saying no haven't traveled internationally with their kids before. It's really not that big of a deal. My twins are 8, for what it's worth, so I'm not out of touch with the age at issue here.

Women in 2023 define their fitness for motherhood by who has the most anxiety. It's bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spent a week with my (childless) aunt in her home country the summer I was 10. It was a wonderful experience (and this was before the days of cell phones so I didn't speak to my parents for the entire week), and I would gladly send my kids to stay alone with my parents or sisters if they were invited. But my family is very close (we visit regularly and my parents provide some childcare during visits, etc.) and also realistic about what we handle. If the country in question is of equal safety/security to the country you live in, I guess I'm not seeing why this is so different then visiting grandma in CA from MD?

It depends on the country and the support. Traveling internationally is a lot more complicated than traveling domestically. Dealing with passports, customs and international laws is significantly more complicated. In addition. there are other countries that have kidnapping laws in place, so you want to make sure that if your children are traveling as unaccompanied minors or traveling with a non-guardian relative (like the grandmother), that you have the appropriate notarized documentation that includes both parents signature that she has authorization to take these children across international borders. Traveling internationally, when you have separate sovereign nation laws, rules, regulations and documentation, can be more difficult, especially if you are not the parent or legal guardian of the child traveling. Many Americans are not good at checking all of the appropriate laws and regulations when traveling internationally, especially if they are traveling to multiple counties and can get into all sorts of legal issues.

For example, I know of a family who was doing something similar (an aunt was taking her nieces to visit a grandparent in Europe). They traveled to one country where they had a layover and then traveled to the destination country. They did not check and they had documentation issues in the layover country and the delay in customs there caused them to miss their transfer flight. All because they didn't have a notarized document signed by both parents that the aunt was authorized to take the kids internationally. And she was not the legal guardian. She had their passports, but not documentation that the parents had approved the travel, so this took hours to resolve. Different nations have different laws and you have to adhere to all of them. When you are the parent, you have certain legal rights. But extended family, like the aunt I knew and OP's MIL (grandmother) are not guaranteed parental rights in international scenarios and that can complicate things.

When you travel from MD to CA, you are traveling entirely within the borders of one nation (the US) and you are not subject to varying international law. There is less complication when traveling intranationally vs internationally.

Oh for crying out loud, they're going somewhere in Europe, not a war-torn country in Africa.

Passports are not difficult. You hand them to the person just like a driver's license. Customs? Ok, you fill out the form. Are they planning to bring back a lot of produce or drugs or something? And international laws? Again, OP hasn't said where they're going, but have you ever been to most Western European countries? I have been to almost all of them and have never had an issue with language barriers or "international laws." Seriously, this isn't Brokedown Palace. Simmer down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, I'm really shocked by the first few pages of responses.

I wouldn't let my kids go with my 75-year-old mom because she has dementia but would let them go with my 75-year-old dad (parents are divorced). It does depend on the country. England? France? Yes. Ukraine? No.

I'm wondering if the people saying no haven't traveled internationally with their kids before. It's really not that big of a deal. My twins are 8, for what it's worth, so I'm not out of touch with the age at issue here.

Women in 2023 define their fitness for motherhood by who has the most anxiety. It's bizarre.

Ha, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spent a week with my (childless) aunt in her home country the summer I was 10. It was a wonderful experience (and this was before the days of cell phones so I didn't speak to my parents for the entire week), and I would gladly send my kids to stay alone with my parents or sisters if they were invited. But my family is very close (we visit regularly and my parents provide some childcare during visits, etc.) and also realistic about what we handle. If the country in question is of equal safety/security to the country you live in, I guess I'm not seeing why this is so different then visiting grandma in CA from MD?

It depends on the country and the support. Traveling internationally is a lot more complicated than traveling domestically. Dealing with passports, customs and international laws is significantly more complicated. In addition. there are other countries that have kidnapping laws in place, so you want to make sure that if your children are traveling as unaccompanied minors or traveling with a non-guardian relative (like the grandmother), that you have the appropriate notarized documentation that includes both parents signature that she has authorization to take these children across international borders. Traveling internationally, when you have separate sovereign nation laws, rules, regulations and documentation, can be more difficult, especially if you are not the parent or legal guardian of the child traveling. Many Americans are not good at checking all of the appropriate laws and regulations when traveling internationally, especially if they are traveling to multiple counties and can get into all sorts of legal issues.

For example, I know of a family who was doing something similar (an aunt was taking her nieces to visit a grandparent in Europe). They traveled to one country where they had a layover and then traveled to the destination country. They did not check and they had documentation issues in the layover country and the delay in customs there caused them to miss their transfer flight. All because they didn't have a notarized document signed by both parents that the aunt was authorized to take the kids internationally. And she was not the legal guardian. She had their passports, but not documentation that the parents had approved the travel, so this took hours to resolve. Different nations have different laws and you have to adhere to all of them. When you are the parent, you have certain legal rights. But extended family, like the aunt I knew and OP's MIL (grandmother) are not guaranteed parental rights in international scenarios and that can complicate things.

When you travel from MD to CA, you are traveling entirely within the borders of one nation (the US) and you are not subject to varying international law. There is less complication when traveling intranationally vs internationally.

Oh for crying out loud, they're going somewhere in Europe, not a war-torn country in Africa.

Passports are not difficult. You hand them to the person just like a driver's license. Customs? Ok, you fill out the form. Are they planning to bring back a lot of produce or drugs or something? And international laws? Again, OP hasn't said where they're going, but have you ever been to most Western European countries? I have been to almost all of them and have never had an issue with language barriers or "international laws." Seriously, this isn't Brokedown Palace. Simmer down.

Unless you were traveling with someone else’s child at the time, I’m not sure how your experience is relevant to the valid issues that PP was discussing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spent a week with my (childless) aunt in her home country the summer I was 10. It was a wonderful experience (and this was before the days of cell phones so I didn't speak to my parents for the entire week), and I would gladly send my kids to stay alone with my parents or sisters if they were invited. But my family is very close (we visit regularly and my parents provide some childcare during visits, etc.) and also realistic about what we handle. If the country in question is of equal safety/security to the country you live in, I guess I'm not seeing why this is so different then visiting grandma in CA from MD?

It depends on the country and the support. Traveling internationally is a lot more complicated than traveling domestically. Dealing with passports, customs and international laws is significantly more complicated. In addition. there are other countries that have kidnapping laws in place, so you want to make sure that if your children are traveling as unaccompanied minors or traveling with a non-guardian relative (like the grandmother), that you have the appropriate notarized documentation that includes both parents signature that she has authorization to take these children across international borders. Traveling internationally, when you have separate sovereign nation laws, rules, regulations and documentation, can be more difficult, especially if you are not the parent or legal guardian of the child traveling. Many Americans are not good at checking all of the appropriate laws and regulations when traveling internationally, especially if they are traveling to multiple counties and can get into all sorts of legal issues.

For example, I know of a family who was doing something similar (an aunt was taking her nieces to visit a grandparent in Europe). They traveled to one country where they had a layover and then traveled to the destination country. They did not check and they had documentation issues in the layover country and the delay in customs there caused them to miss their transfer flight. All because they didn't have a notarized document signed by both parents that the aunt was authorized to take the kids internationally. And she was not the legal guardian. She had their passports, but not documentation that the parents had approved the travel, so this took hours to resolve. Different nations have different laws and you have to adhere to all of them. When you are the parent, you have certain legal rights. But extended family, like the aunt I knew and OP's MIL (grandmother) are not guaranteed parental rights in international scenarios and that can complicate things.

When you travel from MD to CA, you are traveling entirely within the borders of one nation (the US) and you are not subject to varying international law. There is less complication when traveling intranationally vs internationally.

Oh for crying out loud, they're going somewhere in Europe, not a war-torn country in Africa.

Passports are not difficult. You hand them to the person just like a driver's license. Customs? Ok, you fill out the form. Are they planning to bring back a lot of produce or drugs or something? And international laws? Again, OP hasn't said where they're going, but have you ever been to most Western European countries? I have been to almost all of them and have never had an issue with language barriers or "international laws." Seriously, this isn't Brokedown Palace. Simmer down.

You missed the point.

Traveling with someone else’s kids requires a lot of extra paperwork. El Al will even phone call the parentsz

Child abductions (by relatives or hired people) are serious and no airliner wants to be the weak link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I'd feel better about kids alone or with grandma on the streets of most European destinations vs many US cities.

Have you had experience living and visiting various European cities? I’d love to know what you base your opinion on.

Huh? No intentional terrorism bombings or driving over crowds in Paris or at the airports….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:During a Facetime call, my SIL tells DH that their mom would like to bring the kids to visit SIL who lives overseas in Europe over the summer. MIL was also on the call. My kids will be 8 and 10 during the summer. My MIL is 75 and divorced. My SIL (not married, no kids) has been recovering from a long term injury and uses crutches and has some mobility issues. My DH responded that they should talk to me about the kids schedule. I said no, the kids would not be going out of the country without us. They got quiet and changed the subject but I know the discussion is not over. They will try to talk to DH at a time when I am not present and beg him to try to persuade me to change my mind. If this persists, I want to respectfully say no and not create animosity.

First off, I am not comfortable having anyone take my kids out of the country. It has nothing to do with how much I trust my MIL. I wouldn't let anyone in my family take them either. My MIL is 75 and I would not risk a situation where she has a medical emergency and my kids are in another country with no one to bring them home. I don't want to risk a situation where one of the kids has a medical emergency and is in a hospital in another country and we are that far away from them.

I also think it is completely unreasonable to request to travel with young grandkids that far. SIL will be able to travel by summer. She can come to us to see the kids. There is no reason for MIL to take them to SIL. This is just something they want to do for the experience of it.

Putting aside any issues about who is paying for it, am I being unreasonable to say no?

I am a minority on this thread obviously but I have let my kids of that very same age travel to France to see their relatives; they were chaperoned by my then 70 year old MIL. We paid for airplane tickets for them using our miles and while they were there, they were solely on MIL and their relatives' dime. Everyone had a blast. It's been 5 years and they still remember that trip as the best time of their lives.

OP, I think you are just biased and don't want the kids to have a good time without you. It's not even about the money.

What are you basing that on? OP said her concerns are about being far from the kids in the event of a medical emergency. The fact that you were comfortable with that risk doesn’t mean OP is making a different call because she doesn’t want her kids to have fun.

Np here. But the fact that she doesn't want them to go with their father if that was an option is telling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:During a Facetime call, my SIL tells DH that their mom would like to bring the kids to visit SIL who lives overseas in Europe over the summer. MIL was also on the call. My kids will be 8 and 10 during the summer. My MIL is 75 and divorced. My SIL (not married, no kids) has been recovering from a long term injury and uses crutches and has some mobility issues. My DH responded that they should talk to me about the kids schedule. I said no, the kids would not be going out of the country without us. They got quiet and changed the subject but I know the discussion is not over. They will try to talk to DH at a time when I am not present and beg him to try to persuade me to change my mind. If this persists, I want to respectfully say no and not create animosity.

First off, I am not comfortable having anyone take my kids out of the country. It has nothing to do with how much I trust my MIL. I wouldn't let anyone in my family take them either. My MIL is 75 and I would not risk a situation where she has a medical emergency and my kids are in another country with no one to bring them home. I don't want to risk a situation where one of the kids has a medical emergency and is in a hospital in another country and we are that far away from them.

I also think it is completely unreasonable to request to travel with young grandkids that far. SIL will be able to travel by summer. She can come to us to see the kids. There is no reason for MIL to take them to SIL. This is just something they want to do for the experience of it.

Putting aside any issues about who is paying for it, am I being unreasonable to say no?

I am a minority on this thread obviously but I have let my kids of that very same age travel to France to see their relatives; they were chaperoned by my then 70 year old MIL. We paid for airplane tickets for them using our miles and while they were there, they were solely on MIL and their relatives' dime. Everyone had a blast. It's been 5 years and they still remember that trip as the best time of their lives.

OP, I think you are just biased and don't want the kids to have a good time without you. It's not even about the money.

What are you basing that on? OP said her concerns are about being far from the kids in the event of a medical emergency. The fact that you were comfortable with that risk doesn’t mean OP is making a different call because she doesn’t want her kids to have fun.

Np here. But the fact that she doesn't want them to go with their father if that was an option is telling

She just has a lack of confidence in her husband is how I read it. OP said she would be ok leaving the kids with the in laws if she and her husband were overseas too but somewhere nearby. That’s consistent with wanting to be on hand in an emergency. OP, not her husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:During a Facetime call, my SIL tells DH that their mom would like to bring the kids to visit SIL who lives overseas in Europe over the summer. MIL was also on the call. My kids will be 8 and 10 during the summer. My MIL is 75 and divorced. My SIL (not married, no kids) has been recovering from a long term injury and uses crutches and has some mobility issues. My DH responded that they should talk to me about the kids schedule. I said no, the kids would not be going out of the country without us. They got quiet and changed the subject but I know the discussion is not over. They will try to talk to DH at a time when I am not present and beg him to try to persuade me to change my mind. If this persists, I want to respectfully say no and not create animosity.

First off, I am not comfortable having anyone take my kids out of the country. It has nothing to do with how much I trust my MIL. I wouldn't let anyone in my family take them either. My MIL is 75 and I would not risk a situation where she has a medical emergency and my kids are in another country with no one to bring them home. I don't want to risk a situation where one of the kids has a medical emergency and is in a hospital in another country and we are that far away from them.

I also think it is completely unreasonable to request to travel with young grandkids that far. SIL will be able to travel by summer. She can come to us to see the kids. There is no reason for MIL to take them to SIL. This is just something they want to do for the experience of it.

Putting aside any issues about who is paying for it, am I being unreasonable to say no?

I am a minority on this thread obviously but I have let my kids of that very same age travel to France to see their relatives; they were chaperoned by my then 70 year old MIL. We paid for airplane tickets for them using our miles and while they were there, they were solely on MIL and their relatives' dime. Everyone had a blast. It's been 5 years and they still remember that trip as the best time of their lives.

OP, I think you are just biased and don't want the kids to have a good time without you. It's not even about the money.

What are you basing that on? OP said her concerns are about being far from the kids in the event of a medical emergency. The fact that you were comfortable with that risk doesn’t mean OP is making a different call because she doesn’t want her kids to have fun.

Np here. But the fact that she doesn't want them to go with their father if that was an option is telling

Maybe he just starts w doing office work anytime the kids and another adult are around, like just checks out like my spouse.