Permanently canceling annual trip

[Anonymous]

Don’t do family trips anymore. Don’t invite their family to your home. Don’t celebrate holidays with them. Send your husband and his friend on trips together. Encourage them to find an activity they can do together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The relationship is dying. OP you have so much pent up anger that I can’t imagine the next Holiday will go smoothly. It’s not the job of a friend ship to provide a twice a year vacation for even your best friend. The kids don’t need to be exposed to this kind of “ friendship”

Also work on your communication skills and expectations of guests (especially around cleaning and meals). It does no one any good to bottle things up. Resentment harms you most of all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flo sounds like she has a personality disorder, not that this is any excuse to be abusive. And I'm sure Hank knows she is horrible.

I'd just have your husband say, look, the family trips haven't been run and relaxing for you guys recently, how about just a dads and kids trip? He can word it in whatever way he thinks will be the least upsetting. You are not obligated to invite anyone to your home and you can always set the parameters for what you will and won't go for.

I definitely agree she has a personality disorder. I don’t think it is just cultural. I also think she’s depressed. She doesn’t seem to take a lot of joy in anything and that was definitely not the case before. She was always a fussy combative person, but since 2020 she’s been extra ragey.

I think Covid did a number on a lot of people. I had a friend who was always a bit *extra* but we had some good times together and I could just ignore the occasional rant (although alienating people was sort of a specialty of hers). During Covid the anger became permanent and pervasive. My DH and I both tried staying away from topics that would set her off, but it seemed everything set her off. When changing the subject didn’t work, we tried being very direct — “we’re not going to talk about this.” Finally, we just agreed that we couldn’t communicate with her anymore. I am still sad about it, but it was nothing but anger and angst, and we just don’t need that in our lives. I agree that you should let your DH spend time with Hank, but you don’t need to subject yourself or your children to that much rage.

Op here: Really and truly this is it. She was fun Flo for years! I loved her and she was definitely a good friend. We would text every day! But during covid it was clear she fell into a deep depression and her rages (which were sorta funny before) became dark. The yelling which didn’t exist before became loud and dark. Italy was hit hard during the pandemic, especially the early part, and I know she spent months worrying about her family. I don’t think she’s come out of this depression. DH spends a lot of time with Hank one on one (they do sports together), and I wonder if maybe we can quietly distance ourselves while letting them continue their friendship.

I think I’m just sad that our friendship the way it was is over I guess.

I think that in this case you have a conversation and say "I'm worried about you. To me it seems like you are very depressed and acting out in anger. I care about you but your rage makes it hard to be around you." She may drop you, but you owe it to her to name the issue.

Ugh this will be uncomfortable.

Op

Being a grown up often is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flo sounds like she has a personality disorder, not that this is any excuse to be abusive. And I'm sure Hank knows she is horrible.

I'd just have your husband say, look, the family trips haven't been run and relaxing for you guys recently, how about just a dads and kids trip? He can word it in whatever way he thinks will be the least upsetting. You are not obligated to invite anyone to your home and you can always set the parameters for what you will and won't go for.

I definitely agree she has a personality disorder. I don’t think it is just cultural. I also think she’s depressed. She doesn’t seem to take a lot of joy in anything and that was definitely not the case before. She was always a fussy combative person, but since 2020 she’s been extra ragey.

I think Covid did a number on a lot of people. I had a friend who was always a bit *extra* but we had some good times together and I could just ignore the occasional rant (although alienating people was sort of a specialty of hers). During Covid the anger became permanent and pervasive. My DH and I both tried staying away from topics that would set her off, but it seemed everything set her off. When changing the subject didn’t work, we tried being very direct — “we’re not going to talk about this.” Finally, we just agreed that we couldn’t communicate with her anymore. I am still sad about it, but it was nothing but anger and angst, and we just don’t need that in our lives. I agree that you should let your DH spend time with Hank, but you don’t need to subject yourself or your children to that much rage.

Op here: Really and truly this is it. She was fun Flo for years! I loved her and she was definitely a good friend. We would text every day! But during covid it was clear she fell into a deep depression and her rages (which were sorta funny before) became dark. The yelling which didn’t exist before became loud and dark. Italy was hit hard during the pandemic, especially the early part, and I know she spent months worrying about her family. I don’t think she’s come out of this depression. DH spends a lot of time with Hank one on one (they do sports together), and I wonder if maybe we can quietly distance ourselves while letting them continue their friendship.

I think I’m just sad that our friendship the way it was is over I guess.

I think that in this case you have a conversation and say "I'm worried about you. To me it seems like you are very depressed and acting out in anger. I care about you but your rage makes it hard to be around you." She may drop you, but you owe it to her to name the issue.

Ugh this will be uncomfortable.

Op

Being a grown up often is.

No, being a grownup doesn’t entail policing other peoples behavior.

Fwiw, trolling people on the internet isn’t being a grownup either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flo sounds like she has a personality disorder, not that this is any excuse to be abusive. And I'm sure Hank knows she is horrible.

I'd just have your husband say, look, the family trips haven't been run and relaxing for you guys recently, how about just a dads and kids trip? He can word it in whatever way he thinks will be the least upsetting. You are not obligated to invite anyone to your home and you can always set the parameters for what you will and won't go for.

I definitely agree she has a personality disorder. I don’t think it is just cultural. I also think she’s depressed. She doesn’t seem to take a lot of joy in anything and that was definitely not the case before. She was always a fussy combative person, but since 2020 she’s been extra ragey.

I think Covid did a number on a lot of people. I had a friend who was always a bit *extra* but we had some good times together and I could just ignore the occasional rant (although alienating people was sort of a specialty of hers). During Covid the anger became permanent and pervasive. My DH and I both tried staying away from topics that would set her off, but it seemed everything set her off. When changing the subject didn’t work, we tried being very direct — “we’re not going to talk about this.” Finally, we just agreed that we couldn’t communicate with her anymore. I am still sad about it, but it was nothing but anger and angst, and we just don’t need that in our lives. I agree that you should let your DH spend time with Hank, but you don’t need to subject yourself or your children to that much rage.

Op here: Really and truly this is it. She was fun Flo for years! I loved her and she was definitely a good friend. We would text every day! But during covid it was clear she fell into a deep depression and her rages (which were sorta funny before) became dark. The yelling which didn’t exist before became loud and dark. Italy was hit hard during the pandemic, especially the early part, and I know she spent months worrying about her family. I don’t think she’s come out of this depression. DH spends a lot of time with Hank one on one (they do sports together), and I wonder if maybe we can quietly distance ourselves while letting them continue their friendship.

I think I’m just sad that our friendship the way it was is over I guess.

I think that in this case you have a conversation and say "I'm worried about you. To me it seems like you are very depressed and acting out in anger. I care about you but your rage makes it hard to be around you." She may drop you, but you owe it to her to name the issue.

Ugh this will be uncomfortable.

Op

Being a grown up often is.

No, being a grownup doesn’t entail policing other peoples behavior.

Fwiw, trolling people on the internet isn’t being a grownup either.

It’s not trolling to offer advice beyond make it a boys trip from now on. Op has been keeping a lot in and would have been better served by having an uncomfortable conversation much earlier on this saga.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP keeps bringing more and more things into this. Not sure I believe you. Plus if anyone spoke to my kids like that I would definitely have addressed it then and there.

Op here. I don’t know why you’d think I would care that you don’t believe this story. I definitely need to work on my friendship with this person, and you definitely need to consider a hobby or something other than trolling people on the internet.

I wanted a neutral, unbiased opinion about this tough situation. I’m not here to get an assessment as to whether or not this really happened. If you don’t believe me, move along.