Do men see women as people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some do, some don't.

Something I heard the other day is that men are socialized to not like women. They are actually socialized to feel a measure of contempt toward us and "feminine" attributes. They are taught that they should aspire to be the exact opposite of us.

Women are shorter? The ideal man is tall. Women are in tune with their emotions? The ideal man would never cry. Women like to make their surroundings beautiful? The ideal man is happy to live in an apartment with no pictures on the wall. Women are nurturing? The ideal job for a man are those involving lots of power and no caretaking. Women need a loving context to enjoy physical intimacy? The ideal man has lots of one night stands.

Man up, don't be a pussy, don't throw like a girl, etc. etc. etc.

So for men who are wrapped up in these ideas, women are not people but just a foil to make their manhood look stronger.

Girls can wear jeans and cut their hair short and wear shirts and boots because it's okay to be a boy; for girls it's like promotion. But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading, according to you, because secretly you believe that being a girl is degrading.

— Ian McEwan, quoted by Madonna in What It Feels Like For A Girl

Yes, all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey it’s another man bashing post. Everyone climb on board! Can't wait to hear all the sad tales of how bad us men are.

I can’t tell if you’re a troll or just incredibly stupid and ignorant of human history.

I was trying to figure out the other day why men are so incredibly defensive when they hear words like “patriarchy” or “sexism.” I think one explanation is that all men, even good men, identify strongly with that group, and unless they have done some reflection, their minds just can’t handle the idea that the group they are in does a lot of bad things. So instead of just looking at things objectively, they deflect and say “not all men” or “but what about the bad things women do” or “you are too critical” or “if you want to make more progress you have to say things more nicely and not make men feel bad.”

I also think men just have a hard time accepting the fact that everything isn’t about them. If I point out to a man that men are trained to view women as lesser and I use some basic example, like how in order for women to be taken seriously in a business environment they are told to act more masculine because femininity is seen as undesirable, they somehow make it about themselves and their personal experience.

It’s kind of an interesting psychological phenomenon really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey it’s another man bashing post. Everyone climb on board! Can't wait to hear all the sad tales of how bad us men are.

I can’t tell if you’re a troll or just incredibly stupid and ignorant of human history.

I was trying to figure out the other day why men are so incredibly defensive when they hear words like “patriarchy” or “sexism.” I think one explanation is that all men, even good men, identify strongly with that group, and unless they have done some reflection, their minds just can’t handle the idea that the group they are in does a lot of bad things. So instead of just looking at things objectively, they deflect and say “not all men” or “but what about the bad things women do” or “you are too critical” or “if you want to make more progress you have to say things more nicely and not make men feel bad.”

I also think men just have a hard time accepting the fact that everything isn’t about them. If I point out to a man that men are trained to view women as lesser and I use some basic example, like how in order for women to be taken seriously in a business environment they are told to act more masculine because femininity is seen as undesirable, they somehow make it about themselves and their personal experience.

It’s kind of an interesting psychological phenomenon really.

+1
Regarding the bolded, I think this is simply what cis men are conditioned to identify with in our society since birth, along with the message to subconsciously look down on all things 'feminine'. It's probably like a native language- it's very hard to untangle yourself from that language and to look at yourself objectively speaking that language, if that's the only language you know and have been conditioned to identify with since birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey it’s another man bashing post. Everyone climb on board! Can't wait to hear all the sad tales of how bad us men are.

I can’t tell if you’re a troll or just incredibly stupid and ignorant of human history.

I was trying to figure out the other day why men are so incredibly defensive when they hear words like “patriarchy” or “sexism.” I think one explanation is that all men, even good men, identify strongly with that group, and unless they have done some reflection, their minds just can’t handle the idea that the group they are in does a lot of bad things. So instead of just looking at things objectively, they deflect and say “not all men” or “but what about the bad things women do” or “you are too critical” or “if you want to make more progress you have to say things more nicely and not make men feel bad.”

I also think men just have a hard time accepting the fact that everything isn’t about them. If I point out to a man that men are trained to view women as lesser and I use some basic example, like how in order for women to be taken seriously in a business environment they are told to act more masculine because femininity is seen as undesirable, they somehow make it about themselves and their personal experience.

It’s kind of an interesting psychological phenomenon really.

Maybe men don't like terms that indicate a clearly negative attitude towards them as a group, ever think about that?

"their minds just can’t handle the idea that the group they are in does a lot of bad things"

Now let's apply that logic to, say, African Americans. Do you think African Americans might feel "incredibly defensive" if any bad thing a member of that group does is held to reflect on them personally?

"they deflect and say not all men”

This is truly hilarious given the number of times I've heard women say "not all women"...

"I also think men just have a hard time accepting the fact that everything isn’t about them."

Again - pot, kettle, black.

"men are trained to view women as lesser"

Who "trains" men? The overwhelming influence on any young man is (a) his mom, a woman, and (b) his teachers, almost all women. These women are teaching their sons and students to view women as "lesser"? Gimme a break. I'm sure you're going to say "but, his father!" though the fact of the matter is, any father these days (especially in the DCUM demographic) has thoroughly accepted the feminist premises, is totally in thrall to his wife, and teaches his son that women are "equal". In short this idea that men are trained to view women as lesser is as preposterous as everything else you said above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Next time you walk down the street and arent constantly doing the calculus on the safest route to take and each man on the street and if he’s a threat or not

Ok so some men view women as people who are small and weak and can be preyed on. Can’t make any general conclusions about men from that. Evil men will prey on small, weak men too.

But not at nearly the rate they prey on women. This information is easily available.

I'm looking at FBI violent crime statistics for 2020. The victims were 51% men and 49% women, so the perps are preying on men and women roughly equally. The perps are mostly men, but they do not prey on women at a much greater rate than they prey on men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Next time you walk down the street and arent constantly doing the calculus on the safest route to take and each man on the street and if he’s a threat or not

Ok so some men view women as people who are small and weak and can be preyed on. Can’t make any general conclusions about men from that. Evil men will prey on small, weak men too.

But not at nearly the rate they prey on women. This information is easily available.

I'm looking at FBI violent crime statistics for 2020. The victims were 51% men and 49% women, so the perps are preying on men and women roughly equally. The perps are mostly men, but they do not prey on women at a much greater rate than they prey on men.

Look at the number of men who attack women vs. the number of women who attack women. The threat to women is men. The fact that the threat to mama men is also men is irrelevant to the discussion and an incredibly common red herring to divert from the fact that men prey on women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Next time you walk down the street and arent constantly doing the calculus on the safest route to take and each man on the street and if he’s a threat or not

Ok so some men view women as people who are small and weak and can be preyed on. Can’t make any general conclusions about men from that. Evil men will prey on small, weak men too.

But not at nearly the rate they prey on women. This information is easily available.

I'm looking at FBI violent crime statistics for 2020. The victims were 51% men and 49% women, so the perps are preying on men and women roughly equally. The perps are mostly men, but they do not prey on women at a much greater rate than they prey on men.

Well one reason for that is that we do tend to avoid situations where violent crimes tend to occur (marriage and dating being the obvious exception). We are told not to walk around at night, lock our car doors immediately after we enter the car, etc. What would you think if a woman was assaulted as she walked around alone at night?

Also, most crimes against women go unreported. Very few women want to go report a sexual assault to the police or others because we aren’t believed or we are blamed. Prey can also mean take advantage of or coerce, which aren’t crimes at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey it’s another man bashing post. Everyone climb on board! Can't wait to hear all the sad tales of how bad us men are.

I can’t tell if you’re a troll or just incredibly stupid and ignorant of human history.

I was trying to figure out the other day why men are so incredibly defensive when they hear words like “patriarchy” or “sexism.” I think one explanation is that all men, even good men, identify strongly with that group, and unless they have done some reflection, their minds just can’t handle the idea that the group they are in does a lot of bad things. So instead of just looking at things objectively, they deflect and say “not all men” or “but what about the bad things women do” or “you are too critical” or “if you want to make more progress you have to say things more nicely and not make men feel bad.”

I also think men just have a hard time accepting the fact that everything isn’t about them. If I point out to a man that men are trained to view women as lesser and I use some basic example, like how in order for women to be taken seriously in a business environment they are told to act more masculine because femininity is seen as undesirable, they somehow make it about themselves and their personal experience.

It’s kind of an interesting psychological phenomenon really.

Maybe men don't like terms that indicate a clearly negative attitude towards them as a group, ever think about that?

"their minds just can’t handle the idea that the group they are in does a lot of bad things"

Now let's apply that logic to, say, African Americans. Do you think African Americans might feel "incredibly defensive" if any bad thing a member of that group does is held to reflect on them personally?

"they deflect and say not all men”

This is truly hilarious given the number of times I've heard women say "not all women"...

"I also think men just have a hard time accepting the fact that everything isn’t about them."

Again - pot, kettle, black.

"men are trained to view women as lesser"

Who "trains" men? The overwhelming influence on any young man is (a) his mom, a woman, and (b) his teachers, almost all women. These women are teaching their sons and students to view women as "lesser"? Gimme a break. I'm sure you're going to say "but, his father!" though the fact of the matter is, any father these days (especially in the DCUM demographic) has thoroughly accepted the feminist premises, is totally in thrall to his wife, and teaches his son that women are "equal". In short this idea that men are trained to view women as lesser is as preposterous as everything else you said above.

Yes I did think about that. In fact, I think that’s what I wrote. And that emotion blinds you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey it’s another man bashing post. Everyone climb on board! Can't wait to hear all the sad tales of how bad us men are.

I can’t tell if you’re a troll or just incredibly stupid and ignorant of human history.

I was trying to figure out the other day why men are so incredibly defensive when they hear words like “patriarchy” or “sexism.” I think one explanation is that all men, even good men, identify strongly with that group, and unless they have done some reflection, their minds just can’t handle the idea that the group they are in does a lot of bad things. So instead of just looking at things objectively, they deflect and say “not all men” or “but what about the bad things women do” or “you are too critical” or “if you want to make more progress you have to say things more nicely and not make men feel bad.”

I also think men just have a hard time accepting the fact that everything isn’t about them. If I point out to a man that men are trained to view women as lesser and I use some basic example, like how in order for women to be taken seriously in a business environment they are told to act more masculine because femininity is seen as undesirable, they somehow make it about themselves and their personal experience.

It’s kind of an interesting psychological phenomenon really.

Maybe men don't like terms that indicate a clearly negative attitude towards them as a group, ever think about that?

"their minds just can’t handle the idea that the group they are in does a lot of bad things"

Now let's apply that logic to, say, African Americans. Do you think African Americans might feel "incredibly defensive" if any bad thing a member of that group does is held to reflect on them personally?

"they deflect and say not all men”

This is truly hilarious given the number of times I've heard women say "not all women"...

"I also think men just have a hard time accepting the fact that everything isn’t about them."

Again - pot, kettle, black.

"men are trained to view women as lesser"

Who "trains" men? The overwhelming influence on any young man is (a) his mom, a woman, and (b) his teachers, almost all women. These women are teaching their sons and students to view women as "lesser"? Gimme a break. I'm sure you're going to say "but, his father!" though the fact of the matter is, any father these days (especially in the DCUM demographic) has thoroughly accepted the feminist premises, is totally in thrall to his wife, and teaches his son that women are "equal". In short this idea that men are trained to view women as lesser is as preposterous as everything else you said above.

The way it’s apparent that this is written by someone who hasn’t examined his privilege is the comparison to race. White men have been the dominant race and gender in this country since it’s founding. Someone disliking them as a group is inherently “punching up.” The dislike of African Americans as a group leads to racial violence. White men are not in physical danger just because someone has a negative view of men as a whole. Please stop trying to wrap yourself in victimhood.

[Anonymous]

I think men see women in the same vein as children.

[Anonymous]

Some boys and men see women not as other humans, but these rare mythical creatures they struggle to understand. Some men see women as objects. Some men see women as computers. They input data, and they get these results. Some men see interactions as transactions. They spend money, then they get sex.