New TJ Lawsuit Filed 3/10/21 by Pacific Legal Foundation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop with all this nonsense. Under the current systemic racist test framework, blacks and hispanics can not compete with whites and asians. There is no intelligence or achievement test devised that doesn't reveal a disparity in results between these groups. Blacks make up 20% of Virginia's population. Hispanics are 10%.

Whatever new system is created better ensure that it looks like the face of Virginia.

The Virginia General Assembly does not look like the face of Virginia.
The 4th district court does not look like the face of Virginia.
The FCPS school board does not…
Langley HS does not …

So why does TJ alone need to look like the face of Virginia?

You’re not making the point you think you are. The lack of representation in all those places and organizations you mentioned is also a direct result of systemic racism and perpetuates the cycle. TJ alone doesn’t need to change; the entire freaking society needs to change.

But we can keep the NBA, the Billboard 100, and the Olympic track and field teams just the way they are now. That's all good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop with all this nonsense. Under the current systemic racist test framework, blacks and hispanics can not compete with whites and asians. There is no intelligence or achievement test devised that doesn't reveal a disparity in results between these groups. Blacks make up 20% of Virginia's population. Hispanics are 10%.

Whatever new system is created better ensure that it looks like the face of Virginia.

The Virginia General Assembly does not look like the face of Virginia.
The 4th district court does not look like the face of Virginia.
The FCPS school board does not…
Langley HS does not …

So why does TJ alone need to look like the face of Virginia?

You’re not making the point you think you are. The lack of representation in all those places and organizations you mentioned is also a direct result of systemic racism and perpetuates the cycle. TJ alone doesn’t need to change; the entire freaking society needs to change.

What exactly are you saying is systemically racist? How does society need to change? Racial quotas? Living wage? Two parents in the home? School vouchers? What? What is the system you are referring to that somehow Asians aren't afflicted by?

+1

I have to say as a white person I'm so happy there are Asians to point out the absurdity of some of this racial stuff. There aren't enough black students at TJ because there aren't enough of them in the county able and interested in doing that work. Increase the number of kids able and willing to do the work by 7th grade and then whether they are at Mount Vernon or TJ or Langley or wherever they will grow up to be scientists. In other words spend more time on schooling in elementary for black students and less money at TJ.

+1000 ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop with all this nonsense. Under the current systemic racist test framework, blacks and hispanics can not compete with whites and asians. There is no intelligence or achievement test devised that doesn't reveal a disparity in results between these groups. Blacks make up 20% of Virginia's population. Hispanics are 10%.

Whatever new system is created better ensure that it looks like the face of Virginia.

The Virginia General Assembly does not look like the face of Virginia.
The 4th district court does not look like the face of Virginia.
The FCPS school board does not…
Langley HS does not …

So why does TJ alone need to look like the face of Virginia?

You’re not making the point you think you are. The lack of representation in all those places and organizations you mentioned is also a direct result of systemic racism and perpetuates the cycle. TJ alone doesn’t need to change; the entire freaking society needs to change.

What exactly are you saying is systemically racist? How does society need to change? Racial quotas? Living wage? Two parents in the home? School vouchers? What? What is the system you are referring to that somehow Asians aren't afflicted by?

+1

I have to say as a white person I'm so happy there are Asians to point out the absurdity of some of this racial stuff. There aren't enough black students at TJ because there aren't enough of them in the county able and interested in doing that work. Increase the number of kids able and willing to do the work by 7th grade and then whether they are at Mount Vernon or TJ or Langley or wherever they will grow up to be scientists. In other words spend more time on schooling in elementary for black students and less money at TJ.

+1000 ...

Nobody has advocated for quotas. Decisions are race blind. The problem is some people are gaining an unfair advantage through these prep companies that not everyone can afford. The evidence suggests that some of these places even provided applicantnts and advance copy of the admission test. It isn't hard to understand why they're changing their admission policy to level the playing field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop with all this nonsense. Under the current systemic racist test framework, blacks and hispanics can not compete with whites and asians. There is no intelligence or achievement test devised that doesn't reveal a disparity in results between these groups. Blacks make up 20% of Virginia's population. Hispanics are 10%.

Whatever new system is created better ensure that it looks like the face of Virginia.

The Virginia General Assembly does not look like the face of Virginia.
The 4th district court does not look like the face of Virginia.
The FCPS school board does not…
Langley HS does not …

So why does TJ alone need to look like the face of Virginia?

You’re not making the point you think you are. The lack of representation in all those places and organizations you mentioned is also a direct result of systemic racism and perpetuates the cycle. TJ alone doesn’t need to change; the entire freaking society needs to change.

What exactly are you saying is systemically racist? How does society need to change? Racial quotas? Living wage? Two parents in the home? School vouchers? What? What is the system you are referring to that somehow Asians aren't afflicted by?

+1

I have to say as a white person I'm so happy there are Asians to point out the absurdity of some of this racial stuff. There aren't enough black students at TJ because there aren't enough of them in the county able and interested in doing that work. Increase the number of kids able and willing to do the work by 7th grade and then whether they are at Mount Vernon or TJ or Langley or wherever they will grow up to be scientists. In other words spend more time on schooling in elementary for black students and less money at TJ.

+1000 ...

Nobody has advocated for quotas. Decisions are race blind. The problem is some people are gaining an unfair advantage through these prep companies that not everyone can afford. The evidence suggests that some of these places even provided applicantnts and advance copy of the admission test. It isn't hard to understand why they're changing their admission policy to level the playing field.

How it would be race blind when race is mentioned in the application ? How about poor high schools ... TJ HS/TJ students are gaining an unfair advantage by accepting extra funding from extra funding from Private / Govt for great labs and teachers etc ..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop with all this nonsense. Under the current systemic racist test framework, blacks and hispanics can not compete with whites and asians. There is no intelligence or achievement test devised that doesn't reveal a disparity in results between these groups. Blacks make up 20% of Virginia's population. Hispanics are 10%.

Whatever new system is created better ensure that it looks like the face of Virginia.

The Virginia General Assembly does not look like the face of Virginia.
The 4th district court does not look like the face of Virginia.
The FCPS school board does not…
Langley HS does not …

So why does TJ alone need to look like the face of Virginia?

You’re not making the point you think you are. The lack of representation in all those places and organizations you mentioned is also a direct result of systemic racism and perpetuates the cycle. TJ alone doesn’t need to change; the entire freaking society needs to change.

What exactly are you saying is systemically racist? How does society need to change? Racial quotas? Living wage? Two parents in the home? School vouchers? What? What is the system you are referring to that somehow Asians aren't afflicted by?

+1

I have to say as a white person I'm so happy there are Asians to point out the absurdity of some of this racial stuff. There aren't enough black students at TJ because there aren't enough of them in the county able and interested in doing that work. Increase the number of kids able and willing to do the work by 7th grade and then whether they are at Mount Vernon or TJ or Langley or wherever they will grow up to be scientists. In other words spend more time on schooling in elementary for black students and less money at TJ.

+1000 ...

Nobody has advocated for quotas. Decisions are race blind. The problem is some people are gaining an unfair advantage through these prep companies that not everyone can afford. The evidence suggests that some of these places even provided applicantnts and advance copy of the admission test. It isn't hard to understand why they're changing their admission policy to level the playing field.

"Decisions are race blind." lol No they aren't. Stop making stuff up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop with all this nonsense. Under the current systemic racist test framework, blacks and hispanics can not compete with whites and asians. There is no intelligence or achievement test devised that doesn't reveal a disparity in results between these groups. Blacks make up 20% of Virginia's population. Hispanics are 10%.

Whatever new system is created better ensure that it looks like the face of Virginia.

The Virginia General Assembly does not look like the face of Virginia.
The 4th district court does not look like the face of Virginia.
The FCPS school board does not…
Langley HS does not …

So why does TJ alone need to look like the face of Virginia?

You’re not making the point you think you are. The lack of representation in all those places and organizations you mentioned is also a direct result of systemic racism and perpetuates the cycle. TJ alone doesn’t need to change; the entire freaking society needs to change.

What exactly are you saying is systemically racist? How does society need to change? Racial quotas? Living wage? Two parents in the home? School vouchers? What? What is the system you are referring to that somehow Asians aren't afflicted by?

+1

I have to say as a white person I'm so happy there are Asians to point out the absurdity of some of this racial stuff. There aren't enough black students at TJ because there aren't enough of them in the county able and interested in doing that work. Increase the number of kids able and willing to do the work by 7th grade and then whether they are at Mount Vernon or TJ or Langley or wherever they will grow up to be scientists. In other words spend more time on schooling in elementary for black students and less money at TJ.

+1000 ...

Nobody has advocated for quotas. Decisions are race blind. The problem is some people are gaining an unfair advantage through these prep companies that not everyone can afford. The evidence suggests that some of these places even provided applicantnts and advance copy of the admission test. It isn't hard to understand why they're changing their admission policy to level the playing field.

"Decisions are race blind." lol No they aren't. Stop making stuff up.

But, they ARE. How exactly are they not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop with all this nonsense. Under the current systemic racist test framework, blacks and hispanics can not compete with whites and asians. There is no intelligence or achievement test devised that doesn't reveal a disparity in results between these groups. Blacks make up 20% of Virginia's population. Hispanics are 10%.

Whatever new system is created better ensure that it looks like the face of Virginia.

The Virginia General Assembly does not look like the face of Virginia.
The 4th district court does not look like the face of Virginia.
The FCPS school board does not…
Langley HS does not …

So why does TJ alone need to look like the face of Virginia?

You’re not making the point you think you are. The lack of representation in all those places and organizations you mentioned is also a direct result of systemic racism and perpetuates the cycle. TJ alone doesn’t need to change; the entire freaking society needs to change.

What exactly are you saying is systemically racist? How does society need to change? Racial quotas? Living wage? Two parents in the home? School vouchers? What? What is the system you are referring to that somehow Asians aren't afflicted by?

+1

I have to say as a white person I'm so happy there are Asians to point out the absurdity of some of this racial stuff. There aren't enough black students at TJ because there aren't enough of them in the county able and interested in doing that work. Increase the number of kids able and willing to do the work by 7th grade and then whether they are at Mount Vernon or TJ or Langley or wherever they will grow up to be scientists. In other words spend more time on schooling in elementary for black students and less money at TJ.

+1000 ...

Nobody has advocated for quotas. Decisions are race blind. The problem is some people are gaining an unfair advantage through these prep companies that not everyone can afford. The evidence suggests that some of these places even provided applicantnts and advance copy of the admission test. It isn't hard to understand why they're changing their admission policy to level the playing field.

"Decisions are race blind." lol No they aren't. Stop making stuff up.

But, they ARE. How exactly are they not?

How it would be race blind when race is mentioned in the application ? How about poor high schools ... TJ HS/TJ students are gaining an unfair advantage by accepting extra funding from Private / Govt for TJ great labs, programs, clubs and teachers etc ..

[Anonymous]

No test no prepping, now remove the quotas per school and socio economic score. Highest achievers of any kind gets in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No test no prepping, now remove the quotas per school and socio economic score. Highest achievers of any kind gets in.

but quotas per school make perfect sense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No test no prepping, now remove the quotas per school and socio economic score. Highest achievers of any kind gets in.

People game the system by taking expensive prep classes which give them access to the test in advance. This means you aren't finding the highest achievers at all just kids whose parents sent them to prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No test no prepping, now remove the quotas per school and socio economic score. Highest achievers of any kind gets in.

People game the system by taking expensive prep classes which give them access to the test in advance. This means you aren't finding the highest achievers at all just kids whose parents sent them to prep.

Totally! This favors wealthy areas and is exactly why per-school quotas make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No test no prepping, now remove the quotas per school and socio economic score. Highest achievers of any kind gets in.

People game the system by taking expensive prep classes which give them access to the test in advance. This means you aren't finding the highest achievers at all just kids whose parents sent them to prep.

Totally! This favors wealthy areas and is exactly why per-school quotas make sense.

But if there’s no test, there is nothing to prep for so no prep classes. Why we still need quotas?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No test no prepping, now remove the quotas per school and socio economic score. Highest achievers of any kind gets in.

People game the system by taking expensive prep classes which give them access to the test in advance. This means you aren't finding the highest achievers at all just kids whose parents sent them to prep.

Totally! This favors wealthy areas and is exactly why per-school quotas make sense.

But if there’s no test, there is nothing to prep for so no prep classes. Why we still need quotas?

Maybe because many of the kids were already prepping and had been for years?

Maybe because 300 years of oppression and discrimination isn’t overcome by dropping a test and some under-performing children have a huge amount of untapped intelligence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No test no prepping, now remove the quotas per school and socio economic score. Highest achievers of any kind gets in.

People game the system by taking expensive prep classes which give them access to the test in advance. This means you aren't finding the highest achievers at all just kids whose parents sent them to prep.

Totally! This favors wealthy areas and is exactly why per-school quotas make sense.

But if there’s no test, there is nothing to prep for so no prep classes. Why we still need quotas?

Maybe because many of the kids were already prepping and had been for years?

Maybe because 300 years of oppression and discrimination isn’t overcome by dropping a test and some under-performing children have a huge amount of untapped intelligence?

Doubtful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What we don't know is how Curie got the secured materials to be able to transmit to their students.

The most obvious answer - and the prevailing theory among most who are aware of this issue - is that former students who had taken the Quant-Q had memorized some of the questions and had brought them back to Curie after the exam.

This is the simplest explanation, and also pretty much eliminates the possibility of an investigation because there is no way to know which students brought the materials back inappropriately. Indeed, it could have easily been students who were not admitted.

But it's easy to understand why they might have done it - many TJ applicants have younger siblings who would benefit from Curie having this information in sizeable quantities.

A couple of pieces of corroborating evidence:

1) Curie publicly claimed ~50 TJ admits in the Class of 2022, ~95 in the Class of 2023, and 133 in the Class of 2024. Because they published first and last names of the admits, it is a matter of public record that substantially ALL of those admits are of South Asian descent, as are the owners and most of the faculty.
2) After reaching a record high of 74.9% in the Class of 2021 with over a decade of steady gains, Asian students comprised only 65.2% of admits in the Class of 2022 (the first year of the Quant-Q) before returning to 72% in 2023 and 73% in 2024.

The pieces of evidence and testimony fit together too perfectly for there to not be a story here. It's hard to understand how one could look at all of that evidence and not conclude that something was going on. Not something illegal, but ABSOLUTELY something that compromised the admissions process in ways that were problematic.

But they also pretty much preclude the possibility of any investigation, and there's really no need for one because the problem has been addressed moving forward.

Completely new poster to this topic. If this is true, this is the problem! Don’t hate the player. Hate the game. But then the player can’t get upset when the game is changed. Ha ha!

The bolded is absolutely ridiculous.

If URMs aren’t proportionately represented in public school programs you’ve got yourselves a system that isn’t working. The bolder is obviously the reason why.

Here we go again. You are advocating for racial quotas with your "proportionately represented" stance. Those have been outlawed as Un-Constitutional for a very long time. As for as the "obvious reason why" - most experts would disagree with you and say the gap in outcomes can be trace back to early childhood in the home and then the elementary schools.

Slow your roll. I didn’t say quota. Don’t change the argument to that. If 133 admitted kids did so by paying for expensive prep—and these are the Asian American children who disproportionately make up the admitted class, then that’s easy enough to change.

You see? It was a system that was being taken advantage of. Fix it.

As far as gaps in outcomes I agree with that as well. Experts are addressing this with other reforms.

Why are we assuming all Asians test prep? I know a asians that got into TJ without prep. Yes there are some asians and whites that prep and others that have extra money but is there data that shows how many actually text prep. Are we just speculating? Stereotype?

Nobody has EVER said all Asians test prep.

And honestly, no one is saying those who do test prep cannot succeed at TJ.

The status quo for years has been a system of academic inequity in which the families with advantages are able to give their children more advantages paid for by the public. The movement to address this issue isn’t an attack on Asians. It would be an attempt at giving equal opportunity to all students. The child with two involved parents and goes to weekend school and math enrichment should be on equal footing with a child who doesn’t.

TJ admission has become an extremely warped thing. It is not the bastion of academic meritocracy some of you want to believe it is. It also was never meant to be. It was never meant to be a prize. It was never meant to be another advantage for already advantaged children. And if officials cannot figure this out we are going to lose schools like this entirely.