I have an egalitarian marriage, and I HATE it

[Anonymous]

We split childcare, cooking, cleaning. Everything is always chaos. Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome. We are bad at this!! Maybe other people can do it better.

To me the ideal arrangement would be that my husband was out of the house more, earning more money, and I had a part time job and had more time with kids and home management. Why do women complain about that arraignment? I really don't get it. I actually hate having other people (DH, nanny) in my kitchen, doing a half-ass job. My poor kids have part time with me, nanny, and daddy, but no one person who really gets to spend extended, quality time, learning about their needs and being there for them. I hate this.

[Anonymous]

Women who have that arrangement complain because —for their family— it doesn’t work in practice the way it is supposed to work in theory. Just like your current arrangement isn’t working in practice for your family.

Though, honestly, you sound like a troll when you write “egalitarian marriage”. Who would want an unequal marriage. Just say that you want to work PT and focus on housework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We split childcare, cooking, cleaning. Everything is always chaos. Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome. We are bad at this!! Maybe other people can do it better.

To me the ideal arrangement would be that my husband was out of the house more, earning more money, and I had a part time job and had more time with kids and home management. Why do women complain about that arraignment? I really don't get it. I actually hate having other people (DH, nanny) in my kitchen, doing a half-ass job. My poor kids have part time with me, nanny, and daddy, but no one person who really gets to spend extended, quality time, learning about their needs and being there for them. I hate this.

My wife has what you want in my marriage - I am out of the house and earn a lot of money. And my wife is now miserable because she feels at age 46 she never had a real career and is resentful of me for having mine.

Not saying that you would feel the same, just answering your question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We split childcare, cooking, cleaning. Everything is always chaos. Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome. We are bad at this!! Maybe other people can do it better.

To me the ideal arrangement would be that my husband was out of the house more, earning more money, and I had a part time job and had more time with kids and home management. Why do women complain about that arraignment? I really don't get it. I actually hate having other people (DH, nanny) in my kitchen, doing a half-ass job. My poor kids have part time with me, nanny, and daddy, but no one person who really gets to spend extended, quality time, learning about their needs and being there for them. I hate this.

My wife has what you want in my marriage - I am out of the house and earn a lot of money. And my wife is now miserable because she feels at age 46 she never had a real career and is resentful of me for having mine.

Not saying that you would feel the same, just answering your question.

Thank you for your response. It is helpful, and maybe I can try to feel some gratitude. My career stresses me out, and makes me feel sad and guilty that I don’t have more quality time with my kids, but I do love it.

I might feel the way your wife feels, and my DH points that out to me, but I tend to disregard the idea when I am having a pity party.

I also have a strong need for a harmonious home with nice smells coming out of a clean kitchen and happy, relaxed family time. I feel this is missing in my life, need to figure out how to have more of it somehow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We split childcare, cooking, cleaning. Everything is always chaos. Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome. We are bad at this!! Maybe other people can do it better.

To me the ideal arrangement would be that my husband was out of the house more, earning more money, and I had a part time job and had more time with kids and home management. Why do women complain about that arraignment? I really don't get it. I actually hate having other people (DH, nanny) in my kitchen, doing a half-ass job. My poor kids have part time with me, nanny, and daddy, but no one person who really gets to spend extended, quality time, learning about their needs and being there for them. I hate this.

If your H is doing a half-ass job, it’s not really egalitarian. If he stepped it up you wouldn’t feel so stressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women who have that arrangement complain because —for their family— it doesn’t work in practice the way it is supposed to work in theory. Just like your current arrangement isn’t working in practice for your family.

Though, honestly, you sound like a troll when you write “egalitarian marriage”. Who would want an unequal marriage. Just say that you want to work PT and focus on housework.

Yes I picked the wrong word, you are right. I don’t think there is a single word to describe the concept of sharing all responsibilities instead of dividing and conquering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We split childcare, cooking, cleaning. Everything is always chaos. Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome. We are bad at this!! Maybe other people can do it better.

To me the ideal arrangement would be that my husband was out of the house more, earning more money, and I had a part time job and had more time with kids and home management. Why do women complain about that arraignment? I really don't get it. I actually hate having other people (DH, nanny) in my kitchen, doing a half-ass job. My poor kids have part time with me, nanny, and daddy, but no one person who really gets to spend extended, quality time, learning about their needs and being there for them. I hate this.

If your H is doing a half-ass job, it’s not really egalitarian. If he stepped it up you wouldn’t feel so stressed.

Well, I am not sure that is the issue. I suspect is is more that when no one is entirely sure what their responsibility is vs someone else’s, then things go to shit. “Tragedy of the commons”

This could in theory be addressed with better communication, but when both people are super busy with work responsibilities it is challenging to do that. This is my experience anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We split childcare, cooking, cleaning. Everything is always chaos. Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome. We are bad at this!! Maybe other people can do it better.

To me the ideal arrangement would be that my husband was out of the house more, earning more money, and I had a part time job and had more time with kids and home management. Why do women complain about that arraignment? I really don't get it. I actually hate having other people (DH, nanny) in my kitchen, doing a half-ass job. My poor kids have part time with me, nanny, and daddy, but no one person who really gets to spend extended, quality time, learning about their needs and being there for them. I hate this.

My wife has what you want in my marriage - I am out of the house and earn a lot of money. And my wife is now miserable because she feels at age 46 she never had a real career and is resentful of me for having mine.

Not saying that you would feel the same, just answering your question.

I wonder if your wife feels the way she feels because she is inherently dissatisfied or more because the cultural tides have turned more aggressively, and she craves the status that being the wife of a successful husband used to confer but now does not.

[Anonymous]

The problem is your husband not doing a good job. That is not an egalitarian marriage. However, we do find it easier if one person is in charge of the kitchen. You could take over the kitchen and your husband could do a fair share made up of other household chores. That reduces the amount of communication needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We split childcare, cooking, cleaning. Everything is always chaos. Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome. We are bad at this!! Maybe other people can do it better.

To me the ideal arrangement would be that my husband was out of the house more, earning more money, and I had a part time job and had more time with kids and home management. Why do women complain about that arraignment? I really don't get it. I actually hate having other people (DH, nanny) in my kitchen, doing a half-ass job. My poor kids have part time with me, nanny, and daddy, but no one person who really gets to spend extended, quality time, learning about their needs and being there for them. I hate this.

If your H is doing a half-ass job, it’s not really egalitarian. If he stepped it up you wouldn’t feel so stressed.

Well, I am not sure that is the issue. I suspect is is more that when no one is entirely sure what their responsibility is vs someone else’s, then things go to shit. “Tragedy of the commons”

This could in theory be addressed with better communication, but when both people are super busy with work responsibilities it is challenging to do that. This is my experience anyway.

Why in earth don’t each of you know what your roles are and have the other person stay out of it? Like, my husband does the laundry. I have nothing to say about how he does the laundry or when he does the laundry. I don’t complain about how he does it, etc. He also handles the yard and cars in the same manner. He sweeps the hardwoods. I have stuff I handle that he stays out of. That isn’t to say we never, ever comment about the other’s role — but is is pretty rare. We both work intense jobs and it works out just fine.

Sounds like you should take over most kitchen stuff.

[Anonymous]

Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome.

If this were my life, I'd be crazy too!

No need for the "little details" to be communicated/negotiated/struggled over all the time. Divide things up. Laundry + dry cleaning is 100% my responsibility. Grocery shopping is 100% his responsibility, though I do note things that we have run out of or that I want on a list in the kitchen. Dusting + vaccuuming are kid chores. Kitchen cleaning is shared by everyone -- we don't really need to talk about, we just do it.

You may need to drop the rope on some of the 'how to do every little thing'. Does it matter if the dishwasher is loaded incorrectly? As long as the dishes get clean, let it go. If the HOW matters more to you, it's your job to do it. If the HOW matters more to him, then it's his job. That way you aren't feeling agitated every day/week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who have that arrangement complain because —for their family— it doesn’t work in practice the way it is supposed to work in theory. Just like your current arrangement isn’t working in practice for your family.

Though, honestly, you sound like a troll when you write “egalitarian marriage”. Who would want an unequal marriage. Just say that you want to work PT and focus on housework.

Yes I picked the wrong word, you are right. I don’t think there is a single word to describe the concept of sharing all responsibilities instead of dividing and conquering.

I actually think you did pick the right word. An an egalitarian marriage is when both parties take on equal responsibility for both paid and unpaid labor. You have a traditional marriage if one party assumes most of the responsibility for paid labor and the other for unpaid labor.

But OP to respond to your question: I think that moms don’t like working part time because they suddenly become the one who has to be flexible and on call with everything. They no longer get the benefit of a nanny or childcare but they still have to work some, so ultimately it winds up being more work, especially if the idea is that DH will have to do less housework.

I agree with PPs that you need a really firm division of labor. Kick your husband out of your kitchen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We split childcare, cooking, cleaning. Everything is always chaos. Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome. We are bad at this!! Maybe other people can do it better.

To me the ideal arrangement would be that my husband was out of the house more, earning more money, and I had a part time job and had more time with kids and home management. Why do women complain about that arraignment? I really don't get it. I actually hate having other people (DH, nanny) in my kitchen, doing a half-ass job. My poor kids have part time with me, nanny, and daddy, but no one person who really gets to spend extended, quality time, learning about their needs and being there for them. I hate this.

My wife has what you want in my marriage - I am out of the house and earn a lot of money. And my wife is now miserable because she feels at age 46 she never had a real career and is resentful of me for having mine.

Not saying that you would feel the same, just answering your question.

I wonder if your wife feels the way she feels because she is inherently dissatisfied or more because the cultural tides have turned more aggressively, and she craves the status that being the wife of a successful husband used to confer but now does not.

I became a SAHM in 2012. Being the wife of a successful person didn’t confer status then and it doesn’t now. I think that the cultural tide is swinging to “all labor is a valuable contribution.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We split childcare, cooking, cleaning. Everything is always chaos. Who has time to work full time plus communicate constantly about every little detail of home management in order to keep things running remotely smoothly? Power struggles about how to do every little thing since there are two people who have to have ultimate responsibility for the outcome. We are bad at this!! Maybe other people can do it better.

To me the ideal arrangement would be that my husband was out of the house more, earning more money, and I had a part time job and had more time with kids and home management. Why do women complain about that arraignment? I really don't get it. I actually hate having other people (DH, nanny) in my kitchen, doing a half-ass job. My poor kids have part time with me, nanny, and daddy, but no one person who really gets to spend extended, quality time, learning about their needs and being there for them. I hate this.

My wife has what you want in my marriage - I am out of the house and earn a lot of money. And my wife is now miserable because she feels at age 46 she never had a real career and is resentful of me for having mine.

Not saying that you would feel the same, just answering your question.

My husband thinks I was resentful of him, when really I was resentful about the lies I was told about being a SAHM (how I was told that part time work was easy to find, how I could just find a job when my kids went to school full time, etc.) that lead to my not having a good career or as much financial security. I kept trying to explain that it was my choice and I get that the consequences are on me and only me but he didn’t believe I was sincere. I stopped expressing my frustrations with him because he took it so personally. But in the end he suggested we get a post-nump so I would stop stressing about it. It worked.

I just say this because I do wonder if you’re taking it too personally like my husband did. Maybe your wife does resent you for something that was her choice, but maybe not.

[Anonymous]

OP your problem isn’t egalitarianism. It’s that you’re bad at communicating and delegating.