And that's why middle and working class families often choose a division of labor that seems non-egalitarian compared to UMC professionals. I think the assumption is that it's a political choice, that they are just old fashioned about gender roles. But I think more often it's just much, much more efficient, if you have to take care of all this stuff yourself, to have one person doing paid labor and one person doing most of the unpaid labor. Yes, there are consequences to this that are bad for women. But there are tons of benefits to the family. So when rich people tell middle class people "you just need to get your husband to do more" without acknowledging that they use this handy third option (hire someone to do it) that might not be available to everyone, I get annoyed. The equality of UMC professional marriages is not always possible at a lower HHI.
Great points! Sometimes I love DCUM bc people have thoughtful insightful perspectives.
Disagree. There is NO reason why women are “better” or “more efficient” at this stuff. Anyone who’s done it for a week knows it’s a huge grind. Guys can grind it out too. FWIW in my house we do not outsource a lot and dad is doing everything as efficiently as mom, whether it’s mornings with the kids, packing lunches, dishes, laundry, restocking cleaning supplies, or what have you. Absolutely no estrogen required. What do you think gay couples do?
Ehhh, I think there’s some truth to some of these things, at least for, say, GenX and older couples. Most of us GenXers were still socialized with women cooking and men doing yard/handy work. So that’s how DH and I divide things up. Can he cook? Sure. Can I fix stuff? Sure. But we’re both specialized enough in those tasks now that yes, it’s far more efficient for me to do most of the cooking and food and him to fix everything that breaks. We’re UMC but this is the division of labor that works well for our family. He does his own laundry and more cleaning than I do (our regular cleaning person isn’t vaxxed, so DH is scrubbing bathrooms and such). It works.
Homosexual couples are likely often far more intentional about division of labor than most heterosexual couples, which is probably a good thing.
It’s socialization and, importantly, it’s really not about doing. It’s the managing, organizing, anticipating. The problem is that, in general (obviously there are exceptions), women are raised to think about what other people need far more than men are. And that’s where men struggle. It’s not that they can’t do the actual component tasks. It’s that they often lack the empathy and thoughtfulness to anticipate what needs to be done and do it. No one has ever really expected them to do this. So women do it.
It has nothing to do with natural ability or genetic predisposition. But by the time people marry and have kids, men are far behind the curve.
Oh please, this so let's men off the hook. I see it again and again on DCUM and real life. How come they can do all this anticipating and organizing and managing in the workplace? Where many of these DHs are managers and in leadership positions and running orgs?
No one wants to do this stuff at home if someone else is doing it for them.
Listen, I don’t want to let men off the hook. But it is fantasy some people have that if you simply demand they do their fair share and refuse to pick up the slack, then they will step up. Maybe they step up more than they were, which is nice. But I have known dozens of women with this problem and not one of their husbands actually stepped up to do what most women I know do.
Scratch that, I just remembered. I worked with a guy once who took a step back in his career to be primary parent to his kids while his wife had the big career. He genuinely did it as well or better than most women I know. And the interesting thing is that half the people in the office thought he was done kind of saint (for doing what most mothers wind up doing as a matter of course), and the other half though we was in sufficiently ambitious (so they treated him just like they would have treated a mom in the same situation— progressive?). Anyway. So one man out of the dozens I’ve known over 30 years.
Most women can’t wait it out to see if their DH is that guy. Some choose to divorce and force the issue through shared custody. But most just accept this is how it is. They aren’t “letting men off the hook.” Society already did that. They are just trying to have a functional life and make sure their kids get what they need.
This is ridiculous. Yes, I married a man who cooks… but so did 90% of my friends. None of the guys I know in my generation have any issue whatsoever cooking, cleaning up, parenting, doing laundry, or shopping. This is life stuff. And when we were dating I told my husband my career was important to me and he was not only cool with it but indicated that he understood what it would take because his mom had a serious career. My husband makes twice as much as I do but I’ve never felt like he couldn’t pull his weight. Did we have lots of talks? Yes. Do I occasionally take on more mental load? Yes, but he compensates by doing other things. We are a team. The vast majority of my friends — who are doctors, teachers, lawyers, etc. — have a partner at home who can do it all.
Are are you all in the aforementioned group if UMC professionals who can outsource enough that it’s not so hard to split up what is left. Is your husband “doing it all” or do you guys have a nanny, a house cleaner, get groceries delivered or use meal kits, etc.
That’s how all the lawyers, doctors, etc. I know deal with this. They hire people to do half, and then they and their partner each do 25%, and then some of them look down their noses at women who can’t afford to outsource and say “ugh just get your husband to step up like I did.”
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}