How common or rare is it for top kids to get shutout during RD due to yield management?

[Anonymous]

I’m continuing to wonder about this re Michigan this year.

Two of DCs friends were just accepted EA OOS after being deferred ED in December. It’s amazing news for them and for the school!! They’re both great kids - smart, interesting, engaged in the school community, and well-liked by teachers. Exactly the kids we all want to see succeed in this crazy unpredictable process!!

Here’s our question, though. DC loves Michigan but it’s their second choice so they applied EA in October after applying ED to their first choice. They were deferred from the other school ED and are now waiting to hear from Michigan.

Concerned that Michigan will see the situation for what it is - not first chiice. And then what - defer? Reject?

In addition to not applying ED, DC has higher stats and rigor than their two friends who got in earlier this month. 1550+ and more APs, including Calc BC as a junior etc. Worried that Michigan will yield protect because they think DC is pushing for Ivy and using Michigan as a “back up,”, but they’re NOT. It’s just that one ED deferred school.

Any advice? Should DC send Michigan an “update” or LOCI next week, before the 1/31 decisions are made? Or just let it ride?

(I recognize this probably sounds overwrought/neurotic. Because it is. 😢 DC seems fine, but I’m struggling with the uncertainty/opacity of it all.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is impossible to know. Qualified kids are shut out bc of:

- institutional priorities
- DI not shown enough
- why us essay shows student doesn’t truly love or understand the school
- more qualified kids from the same school applied at the same time
- major selected
- yield protection
- mistake in app (telling Yale you can’t wait to go to Princeton)
- mediocre essays
- mediocre letters of rec

Etc

Often its not this, if the same kid gets into more selective/higher ranked schools.
Agree with the others.

I don’t understand this. If the recs are mediocre, why would they get into a MORE selective school and not a less selective school?

Ex. Super high stats. 1550+ 4.0 uw 12APs. Cohesive (and authentic) story and strong ECs. But no national awards or truly unique depth. But assume mediocre recs. Is there a world where they would get into Cornell/Vanderbilt/Northwestern but not Lehigh/Wake/ Lafayette?

I’m not seeing it if poor recs are the problem. If recs keep them out at the latter, I would assume the same would also be true at the former.

I think you are agreeing with the PP?
I agree a bad rec (if sent to all schools), would keep you out of the rest.

Now, to your other question: my kid got into Cornell through RD, was waitlisted at Wake in RD (I think it was yield because the kids from our high school who went had slightly lower stats).

Oops. You’re right. I read the previous post wrong. Did you visit Wake in person? Have it on the Common App list from the beginning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is impossible to know. Qualified kids are shut out bc of:

- institutional priorities
- DI not shown enough
- why us essay shows student doesn’t truly love or understand the school
- more qualified kids from the same school applied at the same time
- major selected
- yield protection
- mistake in app (telling Yale you can’t wait to go to Princeton)
- mediocre essays
- mediocre letters of rec

Etc

Often its not this, if the same kid gets into more selective/higher ranked schools.
Agree with the others.

I don’t understand this. If the recs are mediocre, why would they get into a MORE selective school and not a less selective school?

Ex. Super high stats. 1550+ 4.0 uw 12APs. Cohesive (and authentic) story and strong ECs. But no national awards or truly unique depth. But assume mediocre recs. Is there a world where they would get into Cornell/Vanderbilt/Northwestern but not Lehigh/Wake/ Lafayette?

I’m not seeing it if poor recs are the problem. If recs keep them out at the latter, I would assume the same would also be true at the former.

I think you are agreeing with the PP?
I agree a bad rec (if sent to all schools), would keep you out of the rest.

Now, to your other question: my kid got into Cornell through RD, was waitlisted at Wake in RD (I think it was yield because the kids from our high school who went had slightly lower stats).

Oops. You’re right. I read the previous post wrong. Did you visit Wake in person? Have it on the Common App list from the beginning?

Yes, DC visited Wake in person, met with the rep when at school, etc. No interview, though, bc of the timing of the app. No video. Yes, Wake was on Common App from the summer. Our HS sends 2-4 kids to Wake every year.

The enrollment management data determines which students are likely to matriculate from which high schools, and it is very data-driven. DC ended up with multiple higher-ranked options in RD. Feel like the EM data knew this would happen (I have no idea how) and knew Wake wasn't a top 2 choice (bc didn't ED2).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is impossible to know. Qualified kids are shut out bc of:

- institutional priorities
- DI not shown enough
- why us essay shows student doesn’t truly love or understand the school
- more qualified kids from the same school applied at the same time
- major selected
- yield protection
- mistake in app (telling Yale you can’t wait to go to Princeton)
- mediocre essays
- mediocre letters of rec

Etc

Often its not this, if the same kid gets into more selective/higher ranked schools.
Agree with the others.

I don’t understand this. If the recs are mediocre, why would they get into a MORE selective school and not a less selective school?

Ex. Super high stats. 1550+ 4.0 uw 12APs. Cohesive (and authentic) story and strong ECs. But no national awards or truly unique depth. But assume mediocre recs. Is there a world where they would get into Cornell/Vanderbilt/Northwestern but not Lehigh/Wake/ Lafayette?

I’m not seeing it if poor recs are the problem. If recs keep them out at the latter, I would assume the same would also be true at the former.

I think you are agreeing with the PP?
I agree a bad rec (if sent to all schools), would keep you out of the rest.

Now, to your other question: my kid got into Cornell through RD, was waitlisted at Wake in RD (I think it was yield because the kids from our high school who went had slightly lower stats).

Oops. You’re right. I read the previous post wrong. Did you visit Wake in person? Have it on the Common App list from the beginning?

Yes, DC visited Wake in person, met with the rep when at school, etc. No interview, though, bc of the timing of the app. No video. Yes, Wake was on Common App from the summer. Our HS sends 2-4 kids to Wake every year.

The enrollment management data determines which students are likely to matriculate from which high schools, and it is very data-driven. DC ended up with multiple higher-ranked options in RD. Feel like the EM data knew this would happen (I have no idea how) and knew Wake wasn't a top 2 choice (bc didn't ED2).

Super helpful. Though not encouraging. 😂

One difference is that we’re in the midwest and though Wake sent a rep again this year, few kids at DCs hs tend to apply/go there. Not sure if that’s cuts for or against DC. We’ll see in a few months ….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor thought some of our
DC’s results (class of ‘29), were yield management, in particular getting wait listed by Tulane, Tufts and Carnegie Mellon while getting accepted at 2 Ivies, Williams, Amherst, Rice and others. However, it made sense to us, why wouldn’t a college prioritize students more likely to attend??
Just have a balanced list and if your student truly has an interest in one of the schools that is known for this (it’s called Tufts Syndrome for a reason) they likely need to ED

Carnegie Mellon doesn't really engage in yield management. Amherst, Williams Tufts and Tulane makes me think it was just a bad fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m continuing to wonder about this re Michigan this year.

Two of DCs friends were just accepted EA OOS after being deferred ED in December. It’s amazing news for them and for the school!! They’re both great kids - smart, interesting, engaged in the school community, and well-liked by teachers. Exactly the kids we all want to see succeed in this crazy unpredictable process!!

Here’s our question, though. DC loves Michigan but it’s their second choice so they applied EA in October after applying ED to their first choice. They were deferred from the other school ED and are now waiting to hear from Michigan.

Concerned that Michigan will see the situation for what it is - not first chiice. And then what - defer? Reject?

In addition to not applying ED, DC has higher stats and rigor than their two friends who got in earlier this month. 1550+ and more APs, including Calc BC as a junior etc. Worried that Michigan will yield protect because they think DC is pushing for Ivy and using Michigan as a “back up,”, but they’re NOT. It’s just that one ED deferred school.

Any advice? Should DC send Michigan an “update” or LOCI next week, before the 1/31 decisions are made? Or just let it ride?

(I recognize this probably sounds overwrought/neurotic. Because it is. 😢 DC seems fine, but I’m struggling with the uncertainty/opacity of it all.)

Hard to say as this is the first year that Michigan offered ED, but they already were deferring/postponing many EA applicants in past years. I don’t think an update would make a difference at this point.

It seems that Michigan is rewarding ED applicants by admitting quite a few with lower stats than usual, like 3.5UW to Ross. Their commitment appears to be more important than academic excellence.

Unfortunately for Michigan, some who were willing to commit have now soured on the school, with extra stress and expenses brought on by postponing their acceptance until after winter break/RD deadlines. I have heard of some of these admits now wanting to keep their options open.

[Anonymous]

Expect a postponement for Michigan, and really come up with someone unique and one-of-a-kind (unique to your kid and to MI) for that ECI. It's short.
Many kids do get in after being postponed. And that demonstrated interest shouldn't be short and performative.

[Anonymous]

Bro it's all yield management all the time! That's the entire gig.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools know when you added their app to common app.

If added in late December it will almost always leads to a Rejection or WL at best.

Our counselor sends materials to all “applying to” in SCOIR in October for RD…some my kid didn’t actually add to common app until late Dec. Common app shows October as date for those materials received in portal—so they know they were on the list early even if common app wasn’t started/or added until late Dec.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor thought some of our
DC’s results (class of ‘29), were yield management, in particular getting wait listed by Tulane, Tufts and Carnegie Mellon while getting accepted at 2 Ivies, Williams, Amherst, Rice and others. However, it made sense to us, why wouldn’t a college prioritize students more likely to attend??
Just have a balanced list and if your student truly has an interest in one of the schools that is known for this (it’s called Tufts Syndrome for a reason) they likely need to ED

I don't know if they were yielded for Carnegie Mellon. My DC was accepted to CMU, HYP + few more ivies, Stanford, Williams, Amherst, Rice, Duke and more. Good friend was also accepted to CMU + Harvard, Princeton and others

So many liars (and not good ones) on this board. Most of these are ED schools, how could you have also gained acceptance into so many other schools? I can’t imagine any good CC in this country letting a student who already got acceptance SCEA into Princeton to then also apply to Harvard, Duke, Stanford, Williams, Amherst and “a few more Ivies”. Talk about burning your relationships with college admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools know when you added their app to common app.

If added in late December it will almost always leads to a Rejection or WL at best.

Our counselor sends materials to all “applying to” in SCOIR in October for RD…some my kid didn’t actually add to common app until late Dec. Common app shows October as date for those materials received in portal—so they know they were on the list early even if common app wasn’t started/or added until late Dec.

I’m not sure how that works with the school’s enrollment management software. If you look at the pictures on Slate, it shows the date the student added a college on common app?

Either way I hope it works out for your kid. Please keep us posted.

[Anonymous]

Pretty common for the unhooked who aren't able to perfect reflective, personal essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor thought some of our
DC’s results (class of ‘29), were yield management, in particular getting wait listed by Tulane, Tufts and Carnegie Mellon while getting accepted at 2 Ivies, Williams, Amherst, Rice and others. However, it made sense to us, why wouldn’t a college prioritize students more likely to attend??
Just have a balanced list and if your student truly has an interest in one of the schools that is known for this (it’s called Tufts Syndrome for a reason) they likely need to ED

I don't know if they were yielded for Carnegie Mellon. My DC was accepted to CMU, HYP + few more ivies, Stanford, Williams, Amherst, Rice, Duke and more. Good friend was also accepted to CMU + Harvard, Princeton and others

So many liars (and not good ones) on this board. Most of these are ED schools, how could you have also gained acceptance into so many other schools? I can’t imagine any good CC in this country letting a student who already got acceptance SCEA into Princeton to then also apply to Harvard, Duke, Stanford, Williams, Amherst and “a few more Ivies”. Talk about burning your relationships with college admission.

Public school counselors don’t care if you apply to additional schools in RD even after REA/SCEA acceptance. It’s not against the rules either.

REA/SCEA are restrictive in the school’s favor - Yale literally stated that its purpose is to limit students’ chances. However, these restrictions end once they give a decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor thought some of our
DC’s results (class of ‘29), were yield management, in particular getting wait listed by Tulane, Tufts and Carnegie Mellon while getting accepted at 2 Ivies, Williams, Amherst, Rice and others. However, it made sense to us, why wouldn’t a college prioritize students more likely to attend??
Just have a balanced list and if your student truly has an interest in one of the schools that is known for this (it’s called Tufts Syndrome for a reason) they likely need to ED

I don't know if they were yielded for Carnegie Mellon. My DC was accepted to CMU, HYP + few more ivies, Stanford, Williams, Amherst, Rice, Duke and more. Good friend was also accepted to CMU + Harvard, Princeton and others

So many liars (and not good ones) on this board. Most of these are ED schools, how could you have also gained acceptance into so many other schools? I can’t imagine any good CC in this country letting a student who already got acceptance SCEA into Princeton to then also apply to Harvard, Duke, Stanford, Williams, Amherst and “a few more Ivies”. Talk about burning your relationships with college admission.

Public school counselors don’t care if you apply to additional schools in RD even after REA/SCEA acceptance. It’s not against the rules either.

REA/SCEA are restrictive in the school’s favor - Yale literally stated that its purpose is to limit students’ chances. However, these restrictions end once they give a decision.

It is crazy kids at public schools are allowed to apply widely after an SCEA acceptance. If this was done at our private, the parents would be called in for an in-person meeting immediately to shut it down, and the kid would be ostracized. I am not exaggerating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor thought some of our
DC’s results (class of ‘29), were yield management, in particular getting wait listed by Tulane, Tufts and Carnegie Mellon while getting accepted at 2 Ivies, Williams, Amherst, Rice and others. However, it made sense to us, why wouldn’t a college prioritize students more likely to attend??
Just have a balanced list and if your student truly has an interest in one of the schools that is known for this (it’s called Tufts Syndrome for a reason) they likely need to ED

I don't know if they were yielded for Carnegie Mellon. My DC was accepted to CMU, HYP + few more ivies, Stanford, Williams, Amherst, Rice, Duke and more. Good friend was also accepted to CMU + Harvard, Princeton and others

So many liars (and not good ones) on this board. Most of these are ED schools, how could you have also gained acceptance into so many other schools? I can’t imagine any good CC in this country letting a student who already got acceptance SCEA into Princeton to then also apply to Harvard, Duke, Stanford, Williams, Amherst and “a few more Ivies”. Talk about burning your relationships with college admission.

Public school counselors don’t care if you apply to additional schools in RD even after REA/SCEA acceptance. It’s not against the rules either.

REA/SCEA are restrictive in the school’s favor - Yale literally stated that its purpose is to limit students’ chances. However, these restrictions end once they give a decision.

It is crazy kids at public schools are allowed to apply widely after an SCEA acceptance. If this was done at our private, the parents would be called in for an in-person meeting immediately to shut it down, and the kid would be ostracized. I am not exaggerating.

A lot of private school kids are not concerned about financial aid.

You can negotiate financial aid. I saw a situation where one school was offering lots of financial aid because a selective RD school counted an estranged noncustodial parent's income while the REA school didn't offer ANY financial aid UNTIL they were presented with the financial aid package from the other school.