How common or rare is it for top kids to get shutout during RD due to yield management?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our HS, two students who got in RD were the ones who applied ED and got deferred.

This is at Penn.

[Anonymous]

Op, yield protection of a high stats applicant would be happening beyond T30. Yield management, which is broader, applies to all schools. At T30, high stats do not signal that the applicant might prefer to enroll at a more prestigious school - admission is competitive at all of them.

Apply to targets and safeties, all of.which would be beyond T30. T30s are still reaches for high stats applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My unhooked wanted Yale or Brown. Applied Yale SCEA due to wanting to see all options in March including merit offers elsewhere. They were deferred and eventually rejected at Yale. Got into Brown during RD amongst other top schools.

Adding, not yield management, it's a "lottery" reach for all competitive candidates. Mine chose the apply to many without sacrificing quality approach. Targets and safeties were done in EA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My unhooked wanted Yale or Brown. Applied Yale SCEA due to wanting to see all options in March including merit offers elsewhere. They were deferred and eventually rejected at Yale. Got into Brown during RD amongst other top schools.

Major?
Male or Female?

[Anonymous]

Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

The 6 cliche and overly common activities were these (they are not unique and not compelling):
- Sports (including club) if not recruited
- Summer programs (vast majority are a waste), and other than a handful, none are elite
- Music (at a non-exceptional level), especially if not relevant to your academic hook
- Service (including tutoring)
- STEM activities (including robotics)
- Business (DECA, FBLA, business clubs/competitions, and summer programs)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

The 6 cliche and overly common activities were these (they are not unique and not compelling):
- Sports (including club) if not recruited
- Summer programs (vast majority are a waste), and other than a handful, none are elite
- Music (at a non-exceptional level), especially if not relevant to your academic hook
- Service (including tutoring)
- STEM activities (including robotics)
- Business (DECA, FBLA, business clubs/competitions, and summer programs)

Good thing they didn't mention research, and passion projects.

I went to listen to that episode, the take away is that for the above 6 cliche, you either take it to a very high level (recruit, professional), or you somehow connect them to a hook/common theme/passion. So there is nothing new here, we all know about this.

In other words, you need to build a spike. and that's the hard part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

The 6 cliche and overly common activities were these (they are not unique and not compelling):
- Sports (including club) if not recruited
- Summer programs (vast majority are a waste), and other than a handful, none are elite
- Music (at a non-exceptional level), especially if not relevant to your academic hook
- Service (including tutoring)
- STEM activities (including robotics)
- Business (DECA, FBLA, business clubs/competitions, and summer programs)

This guy is just following Charlie Munger who he quotes often:

Once Charlie Munger was in Minnesota and he was buying a fishing lure. And he looked at it and he said, My god, it's pink and green and do fish really take this lure? And the old-timer behind the counter said, "Well Mister, I don't sell to fish".

The anecdote illustrates a key business principle: you need to market and sell a product based on what the customer wants, not necessarily what the end-user (the fish, in this case) might prefer, or what you, as the seller, might think makes logical sense.

So this guy is just selling to parents who are desperate for a formula that gets their kid into Ivies.

DC is at a HYPSM, and is more a well rounded kid who excelled in academics and played a sport for 2 seasons, instrument for 2 seasons and bit of this and that. Over represented minority from a public HS in a popular major.

The few of DC's suite mates and most friends that we know of are all well rounded. All UMC, some public and some private HS's. A sample size of around 10 but it seems so different from what this guy keeps talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

The 6 cliche and overly common activities were these (they are not unique and not compelling):
- Sports (including club) if not recruited
- Summer programs (vast majority are a waste), and other than a handful, none are elite
- Music (at a non-exceptional level), especially if not relevant to your academic hook
- Service (including tutoring)
- STEM activities (including robotics)
- Business (DECA, FBLA, business clubs/competitions, and summer programs)

This guy is just following Charlie Munger who he quotes often:

Once Charlie Munger was in Minnesota and he was buying a fishing lure. And he looked at it and he said, My god, it's pink and green and do fish really take this lure? And the old-timer behind the counter said, "Well Mister, I don't sell to fish".

The anecdote illustrates a key business principle: you need to market and sell a product based on what the customer wants, not necessarily what the end-user (the fish, in this case) might prefer, or what you, as the seller, might think makes logical sense.

So this guy is just selling to parents who are desperate for a formula that gets their kid into Ivies.

DC is at a HYPSM, and is more a well rounded kid who excelled in academics and played a sport for 2 seasons, instrument for 2 seasons and bit of this and that. Over represented minority from a public HS in a popular major.

The few of DC's suite mates and most friends that we know of are all well rounded. All UMC, some public and some private HS's. A sample size of around 10 but it seems so different from what this guy keeps talking about.

What state?
Yes, that is unusual.

[Anonymous]

Agree with others it’s not yield protection that results in top stats getting shut out of T20- except for UChicago if you don’t apply ED (though they will waitlist rather than deny). The schools that shut those kids out due to yield are ones like Tufts, Tulane.
But that doesn’t RD will work out. My DC did great in RD (Ivies and several other T20’s). I do think there is some advantage over those who were deferred from being “fresh” but still have to stand out from other excellent applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

The 6 cliche and overly common activities were these (they are not unique and not compelling):
- Sports (including club) if not recruited
- Summer programs (vast majority are a waste), and other than a handful, none are elite
- Music (at a non-exceptional level), especially if not relevant to your academic hook
- Service (including tutoring)
- STEM activities (including robotics)
- Business (DECA, FBLA, business clubs/competitions, and summer programs)

This guy is just following Charlie Munger who he quotes often:

Once Charlie Munger was in Minnesota and he was buying a fishing lure. And he looked at it and he said, My god, it's pink and green and do fish really take this lure? And the old-timer behind the counter said, "Well Mister, I don't sell to fish".

The anecdote illustrates a key business principle: you need to market and sell a product based on what the customer wants, not necessarily what the end-user (the fish, in this case) might prefer, or what you, as the seller, might think makes logical sense.

So this guy is just selling to parents who are desperate for a formula that gets their kid into Ivies.

DC is at a HYPSM, and is more a well rounded kid who excelled in academics and played a sport for 2 seasons, instrument for 2 seasons and bit of this and that. Over represented minority from a public HS in a popular major.

The few of DC's suite mates and most friends that we know of are all well rounded. All UMC, some public and some private HS's. A sample size of around 10 but it seems so different from what this guy keeps talking about.

What state?
Yes, that is unusual.

It's unreal. If it's real, do you think "suite mates and most friends" would brag about their spikes in college admissions? It's something only AOs care about. It's weird a young adult at an elite college would discuss this kind of stuff. It's even more weird a mom would know DC's 10 friends' spikes, or absence thereof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Op. I realized my question wasn't clear - sorry. What I meant is if a top student follows CC advice to go for a T10 during SCEA, if she doesn't get in and applies more broadly during RD, what are the change that this applicant would get shutout by other T30 colleges due to yield management? The ones she would apply in RD include schools like Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Rice, Pitt, GA Tech, Brown, Lehigh. This is a science major. The ones she really wants would be HM and Brown. Thx

Very high chances of being shut out.

It is really the tippy top kids (both academics and EC's) who have a strong shot at HYPSM (30-50% chance) who can afford to SCEA to HYPSM.

For everyone else, there is a strong chance of being shut out in RD from T20.

No chance this kid is shutout from a list that includes Pitt and Lehigh. The doom and gloom on this board is ridiculous.

I agree that it is extremely unlikely. But if she needs to either apply to Pitt extremely early or apply to an actual safety school.

[Anonymous]

More common for girls than boys because stronger applicant pool. More likely to only get safeties and not target or reaches. OP’s kid has no safeties unless she is talking about next year because very late to apply to Pitt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

The 6 cliche and overly common activities were these (they are not unique and not compelling):
- Sports (including club) if not recruited
- Summer programs (vast majority are a waste), and other than a handful, none are elite
- Music (at a non-exceptional level), especially if not relevant to your academic hook
- Service (including tutoring)
- STEM activities (including robotics)
- Business (DECA, FBLA, business clubs/competitions, and summer programs)

This guy is just following Charlie Munger who he quotes often:

Once Charlie Munger was in Minnesota and he was buying a fishing lure. And he looked at it and he said, My god, it's pink and green and do fish really take this lure? And the old-timer behind the counter said, "Well Mister, I don't sell to fish".

The anecdote illustrates a key business principle: you need to market and sell a product based on what the customer wants, not necessarily what the end-user (the fish, in this case) might prefer, or what you, as the seller, might think makes logical sense.

So this guy is just selling to parents who are desperate for a formula that gets their kid into Ivies.

DC is at a HYPSM, and is more a well rounded kid who excelled in academics and played a sport for 2 seasons, instrument for 2 seasons and bit of this and that. Over represented minority from a public HS in a popular major.

The few of DC's suite mates and most friends that we know of are all well rounded. All UMC, some public and some private HS's. A sample size of around 10 but it seems so different from what this guy keeps talking about.

Because you are not local, and this is a dc centric board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

The 6 cliche and overly common activities were these (they are not unique and not compelling):
- Sports (including club) if not recruited
- Summer programs (vast majority are a waste), and other than a handful, none are elite
- Music (at a non-exceptional level), especially if not relevant to your academic hook
- Service (including tutoring)
- STEM activities (including robotics)
- Business (DECA, FBLA, business clubs/competitions, and summer programs)

This guy is just following Charlie Munger who he quotes often:

Once Charlie Munger was in Minnesota and he was buying a fishing lure. And he looked at it and he said, My god, it's pink and green and do fish really take this lure? And the old-timer behind the counter said, "Well Mister, I don't sell to fish".

The anecdote illustrates a key business principle: you need to market and sell a product based on what the customer wants, not necessarily what the end-user (the fish, in this case) might prefer, or what you, as the seller, might think makes logical sense.

So this guy is just selling to parents who are desperate for a formula that gets their kid into Ivies.

DC is at a HYPSM, and is more a well rounded kid who excelled in academics and played a sport for 2 seasons, instrument for 2 seasons and bit of this and that. Over represented minority from a public HS in a popular major.

The few of DC's suite mates and most friends that we know of are all well rounded. All UMC, some public and some private HS's. A sample size of around 10 but it seems so different from what this guy keeps talking about.

What state?
Yes, that is unusual.

It's unreal. If it's real, do you think "suite mates and most friends" would brag about their spikes in college admissions? It's something only AOs care about. It's weird a young adult at an elite college would discuss this kind of stuff. It's even more weird a mom would know DC's 10 friends' spikes, or absence thereof.

LOL Do you talk to you kids at all?

The kids were still pretty excited and happy (I cannot believe I got into this college phase). We had a parent reception and dinner. Most of the suitemates familes who came sat at the same table or close by. One brought a sibling who is applying this year and all the other suitemates were encouraging her and giving her tips. No you dont need that, this is what I did, this is the what I have, etc. It is entertaining and informative.

I am in the DC metro area.