How common or rare is it for top kids to get shutout during RD due to yield management?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Op. I realized my question wasn't clear - sorry. What I meant is if a top student follows CC advice to go for a T10 during SCEA, if she doesn't get in and applies more broadly during RD, what are the change that this applicant would get shutout by other T30 colleges due to yield management? The ones she would apply in RD include schools like Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Rice, Pitt, GA Tech, Brown, Lehigh. This is a science major. The ones she really wants would be HM and Brown. Thx

How would a student know if they got shut out due to “yield management” rather than simply not being competitive in an applicant pool? It’s not like rejection letters specify the reason for rejection.

What’s the major? What distinguishing ECs/awards? Thst will matter for a girl in RD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Op. I realized my question wasn't clear - sorry. What I meant is if a top student follows CC advice to go for a T10 during SCEA, if she doesn't get in and applies more broadly during RD, what are the change that this applicant would get shutout by other T30 colleges due to yield management? The ones she would apply in RD include schools like Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Rice, Pitt, GA Tech, Brown, Lehigh. This is a science major. The ones she really wants would be HM and Brown. Thx

How would a student know if they got shut out due to “yield management” rather than simply not being competitive in an applicant pool? It’s not like rejection letters specify the reason for rejection.

What’s the major? What distinguishing ECs/awards? Thst will matter for a girl in RD.

You are not answering the poster’s question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Op. I realized my question wasn't clear - sorry. What I meant is if a top student follows CC advice to go for a T10 during SCEA, if she doesn't get in and applies more broadly during RD, what are the change that this applicant would get shutout by other T30 colleges due to yield management? The ones she would apply in RD include schools like Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Rice, Pitt, GA Tech, Brown, Lehigh. This is a science major. The ones she really wants would be HM and Brown. Thx

How would a student know if they got shut out due to “yield management” rather than simply not being competitive in an applicant pool? It’s not like rejection letters specify the reason for rejection.

What’s the major? What distinguishing ECs/awards? Thst will matter for a girl in RD.

You are not answering the poster’s question.

They sort of are. If you are overqualified for your major, then yield management might be why you didn't get accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

The 6 cliche and overly common activities were these (they are not unique and not compelling):
- Sports (including club) if not recruited
- Summer programs (vast majority are a waste), and other than a handful, none are elite
- Music (at a non-exceptional level), especially if not relevant to your academic hook
- Service (including tutoring)
- STEM activities (including robotics)
- Business (DECA, FBLA, business clubs/competitions, and summer programs)

This guy is just following Charlie Munger who he quotes often:

Once Charlie Munger was in Minnesota and he was buying a fishing lure. And he looked at it and he said, My god, it's pink and green and do fish really take this lure? And the old-timer behind the counter said, "Well Mister, I don't sell to fish".

The anecdote illustrates a key business principle: you need to market and sell a product based on what the customer wants, not necessarily what the end-user (the fish, in this case) might prefer, or what you, as the seller, might think makes logical sense.

So this guy is just selling to parents who are desperate for a formula that gets their kid into Ivies.

DC is at a HYPSM, and is more a well rounded kid who excelled in academics and played a sport for 2 seasons, instrument for 2 seasons and bit of this and that. Over represented minority from a public HS in a popular major.

The few of DC's suite mates and most friends that we know of are all well rounded. All UMC, some public and some private HS's. A sample size of around 10 but it seems so different from what this guy keeps talking about.

Sure, college consultants profit from the anxiety of the of neurotic parents but there is no shortage of that anxiety that anyone would need to increase it.

Any parent that thinks there is a secret formula to getting into college is going to feel frustrated and disappointed with the process.

However, when you say "excelled in academics" are we talking about straight A's at a base school, AIME, editor of the newspaper and a 1520 on the SATs or straight A's at TJ, 1580 SAT, USAMO, and president of the math club?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Op. I realized my question wasn't clear - sorry. What I meant is if a top student follows CC advice to go for a T10 during SCEA, if she doesn't get in and applies more broadly during RD, what are the change that this applicant would get shutout by other T30 colleges due to yield management? The ones she would apply in RD include schools like Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Rice, Pitt, GA Tech, Brown, Lehigh. This is a science major. The ones she really wants would be HM and Brown. Thx

How would a student know if they got shut out due to “yield management” rather than simply not being competitive in an applicant pool? It’s not like rejection letters specify the reason for rejection.

What’s the major? What distinguishing ECs/awards? Thst will matter for a girl in RD.

You are not answering the poster’s question.

They sort of are. If you are overqualified for your major, then yield management might be why you didn't get accepted.

This is all guessing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting episode today on The Game podcast - and why the stats (GPA/test scores) are ceiling and generally not dispositive of how T10/T20 will determine admission. Esp for a large public HS. Those metrics won't determine admission. He talks about the most common/cliché activities in elite admissions, which basically don't make a difference.

So yes, a high stats kid could ABSOLUTELY get shut out in RD - and its not yield management - it's that nothing stood out other than stats.

This is why the major is important - esp if the profile (resume, ECs, awards, optional electives) can be as important as stats in determining admission to T20 in RD.

Something needs to be fundamentally different (or uncommon) about your kid in RD to have an exceptional RD run.

This was our experience last cycle, where my very unique kid (niche academic interests, niche ECs) had an exceptional RD run.

Back here now for my junior, who is not so unique and differentiated. Definitely a concern.

The 6 cliche and overly common activities were these (they are not unique and not compelling):
- Sports (including club) if not recruited
- Summer programs (vast majority are a waste), and other than a handful, none are elite
- Music (at a non-exceptional level), especially if not relevant to your academic hook
- Service (including tutoring)
- STEM activities (including robotics)
- Business (DECA, FBLA, business clubs/competitions, and summer programs)

This guy is just following Charlie Munger who he quotes often:

Once Charlie Munger was in Minnesota and he was buying a fishing lure. And he looked at it and he said, My god, it's pink and green and do fish really take this lure? And the old-timer behind the counter said, "Well Mister, I don't sell to fish".

The anecdote illustrates a key business principle: you need to market and sell a product based on what the customer wants, not necessarily what the end-user (the fish, in this case) might prefer, or what you, as the seller, might think makes logical sense.

So this guy is just selling to parents who are desperate for a formula that gets their kid into Ivies.

DC is at a HYPSM, and is more a well rounded kid who excelled in academics and played a sport for 2 seasons, instrument for 2 seasons and bit of this and that. Over represented minority from a public HS in a popular major.

The few of DC's suite mates and most friends that we know of are all well rounded. All UMC, some public and some private HS's. A sample size of around 10 but it seems so different from what this guy keeps talking about.

What state?
Yes, that is unusual.

It's unreal. If it's real, do you think "suite mates and most friends" would brag about their spikes in college admissions? It's something only AOs care about. It's weird a young adult at an elite college would discuss this kind of stuff. It's even more weird a mom would know DC's 10 friends' spikes, or absence thereof.

DP

TO be fair, I can tell you what the spike is for any of my kid's friends. It's hard to have an actual spike and keep it low key.

[Anonymous]

Our counselor thought some of our
DC’s results (class of ‘29), were yield management, in particular getting wait listed by Tulane, Tufts and Carnegie Mellon while getting accepted at 2 Ivies, Williams, Amherst, Rice and others. However, it made sense to us, why wouldn’t a college prioritize students more likely to attend??
Just have a balanced list and if your student truly has an interest in one of the schools that is known for this (it’s called Tufts Syndrome for a reason) they likely need to ED

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our counselor thought some of our
DC’s results (class of ‘29), were yield management, in particular getting wait listed by Tulane, Tufts and Carnegie Mellon while getting accepted at 2 Ivies, Williams, Amherst, Rice and others. However, it made sense to us, why wouldn’t a college prioritize students more likely to attend??
Just have a balanced list and if your student truly has an interest in one of the schools that is known for this (it’s called Tufts Syndrome for a reason) they likely need to ED

I don't know if they were yielded for Carnegie Mellon. My DC was accepted to CMU, HYP + few more ivies, Stanford, Williams, Amherst, Rice, Duke and more. Good friend was also accepted to CMU + Harvard, Princeton and others

[Anonymous]

For those who suspect their kids were denied due to yield management, did they visit the school in person? Register for and attend any on-line events? Meet with the campus rep when they visited their high school?

I’m asking only because we’re a little worried about this for DC with a few schools. Hoping the in person visit + multiple efforts to engage will help offset any risk?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those who suspect their kids were denied due to yield management, did they visit the school in person? Register for and attend any on-line events? Meet with the campus rep when they visited their high school?

I’m asking only because we’re a little worried about this for DC with a few schools. Hoping the in person visit + multiple efforts to engage will help offset any risk?

Of the ones DC was waitlisted at only visited Tufts in person but DC did online tours/info sessions/followed their social media and opened emails from all colleges applied to (high school counselor said DI matters to some extent at all school)

[Anonymous]

A brutally balanced realistic list is the remedy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm Op. I realized my question wasn't clear - sorry. What I meant is if a top student follows CC advice to go for a T10 during SCEA, if she doesn't get in and applies more broadly during RD, what are the change that this applicant would get shutout by other T30 colleges due to yield management? The ones she would apply in RD include schools like Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, Rice, Pitt, GA Tech, Brown, Lehigh. This is a science major. The ones she really wants would be HM and Brown. Thx

How would a student know if they got shut out due to “yield management” rather than simply not being competitive in an applicant pool? It’s not like rejection letters specify the reason for rejection.

What’s the major? What distinguishing ECs/awards? Thst will matter for a girl in RD.

Stem for boys in RD will be tough. Strong but not compelling will be rejected or WL in RD. The stem slots are often filled early.

Is that YM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A brutally balanced realistic list is the remedy

I suspect that back when OP posted, which was the week before ED deadlines, they were thinking that maybe aiming a little lower in that early round might be the remedy.

It’s the perennial question that this system poses to high-fliers: do you lock in a target via ED, or shoot for a reach at the risk of falling to an even lower tier in RD.

[Anonymous]

When your kid doesn't get into a selective school, it's because the process isn't competitive. It's not because your kid is "too good." That's a coping mechanism.

They didn't get in because their application didn't stand out in a really competitive process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When your kid doesn't get into a selective school, it's because the process isn't competitive. It's not because your kid is "too good." That's a coping mechanism.

They didn't get in because their application didn't stand out in a really competitive process.

No, there are definitely schools that yield protect in RD.

Boston College comes to mind. From our private they commonly enroll kids with up to a 3.7, including 4 or so from ED last year.
Then kids with a 3.9 are deferred RD. Boston College knows kids with a 3.9 are not going to matriculate at BC from this high school. They never have and they never will.

And so BC defers them. And like clockwork, the 3.9 kids get into Ivies and other top15 schools and that's where they go.