Is Dark Matter Where the Seven Heavens Lie?
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Anonymous
Right -- it only strengthens your faith. Meanwhile, people are leaving religion in droves, so something is causing that to happen. Also, you're not in position to know that most of the people here are believers -- all the while complaining about atheists! |
Anonymous
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The only reason for an atheist to come and intrude into a religious discussion among believers is to try to weaken people's faith. If people were leaving religion in droves, why would you need to be here?
You keep telling yourself whatever helps you to sleep at night, dear. Regardless of people leaving religion, they are not leaving belief in God or an afterlife. Like I said, find your own buddy group so you can find some solace in your life too. |
Anonymous
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FruminousBandersnatch
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As an atheist, I can say unequivocally that I am not trying to weaken anyone's faith in their deity of choice. You have the unfettered right to believe whatever you choose, and I support your right to do so. I came into this conversation because it was a discussion of a scientific topic, attempting to apply aspects of a cosmological hypothesis to religion, and I attempted to explain why trying to link the supernatural/spiritual does not make sense. |
Anonymous
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And we explained countless times that our belief is not based on science.
We are not discussing whether heaven exists. But this is what you atheists repeatedly try to discuss with us. So there is no discussion. No believer is interested in engaging a cyclical argument over whether God or heaven exists. We know it does. Not up for discussion. Its foolish to keep revisiting this since we are not likely to change our belief system. |
Anonymous
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This is a repetition and expansion of something I wrote earlier. Rather than asking whether the seven heavens lie, I thnk the question should be whether it is God that is spread throughout the universe, providing the Force that keeps everything in order.
I would further suggest that both heaven and hell consist of our souls residing within God, being rewarded for our goodness and cleansed of our sins. And to those offended by an atheist intruding in the discussion, I apologize. I am not being sarcastic, but trying to put myself in a believer's frame of mind and to treat the question seriously. |
FruminousBandersnatch
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I never said it was. However, this thread is about whether Heaven (or the Seven Heavens) is in dark matter. I attempted to explain why that hypothesis is unlikely to be correct, and some of the consequences if it is.
Nope. I said I disagree with you, but that I'm not going to argue about the existence of Heaven (or the Seven Heavens).
And, I specifically said that I'm not trying to change your belief system. This thread is about applying a real world cosmological hypothesis (the existence of dark matter) to a theological concept in terms of asking the question about whether Heaven (or the Seven Heavens) could be in dark matter. All I've tried to do is explain the consequences and questions raised by that application. If you still want to believe in it, that's fine with me - you have every right to believe whatever you choose. |
Anonymous
| 10:27 again. Since I'm in apoloqizing mode, let me add an apology to Fruminous for my earlier comment about the Fruminous theory of angels. That time my tongue was firmly in my cheek. Of course, it would not surprise me if the same were true of the Fruminous response to that note. |
Anonymous
Many atheists do have "buddy groups" especially in towns as large as DC. In many cases, the aim of atheists expressing their views is not to convert, but to inform and converse. though I guess it's possible, I haven't heard of atheists who were converted by another person (as often happens in religious conversions). Instead, they usually read and think and research and eventually leave their supernatural beliefs behind. Also , Some atheists seem to be "born" that way -- impervious to religion, even though they are taught it as a child. |
FruminousBandersnatch
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No apology necessary or merited! I thought your comment was funny! |
Anonymous
In your opinion. There are sometimes religious people on atheist threads. If your faith can we weakened by an atheist, then perhaps it isn't very strong or perhaps you're open to outside information. People often move from one religion to another, or from religion to no religion. It seems like a pretty human, natural thing to do. People change their minds about all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. According to some brands of Christianity, doubt and questioning and outside attacks on their religion only makes faith stronger. If that's the case, then atheists are doing believers a favor by presenting a different point of view which you can then reject. |
Anonymous
Atheists know full well that religious belief is not based on science. If you don't like what atheists say here, I suggest that you do not engage with them, instead of trying to throw them off the thread. |
Anonymous
I'm not sure I buy OP's theory about dark matter, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy into there being seven heavens. I am religious, however. But, the issue here is that some atheists are actively trying to derail OP's thread, while others might be well-intentioned but they're still effectively derailing instead of engaging OP. Which is how it goes any time someone tries to discuss faith: ask a serious question about faith and a bunch of atheist scolds come on to tell us we shouldn't believe anything in the first place, and now we should all discuss baseline questions like whether heaven or God exists. Which is why so few people of faith engage on this forum. Can we change this? Probably not. For a few (not all!) atheists, it's just too much fun (and their lives are clearly so devoid of family and hobbies) to derail with annoying nonsense. For the well-intentioned atheists, why is it too much to ask you to stop derailing threads like this one, and to start your own threads on the baseline questions about heaven's existence? If it intrigues you so much, why not hit "new topic" and go for it? I don't care about this particular thread that much, but I'd love to see this dynamic play out differently on threads I do care about. |
Anonymous
I'm the pp, the above poster was referring to. I've already explained that I am religious, not an atheist. Yet, it seems it doesn't matter if someone has a religion or not. If it's not your religion or if it doesn't fit in with your beliefs then we shouldn't be posting. So no other religions, no atheists, and no one that doesn't believe in your vision of heaven. Got it, but then this really should not be called the Religion forum. The Dogma forum for non-questioners seems more appropriate. |
Anonymous
It's just absurd for atheists to say because a topic of science is being discussed in relation to heaven, they have something relevant to add to this discourse. This topic is not about dark matter. It's about the possibility of heaven existing there. If one does not believe in heaven, why would you even post? It's the premise of the thread for goodness sake. If dark matter interests you, by all means click on new topic and start a purely scientific discussion on dark matter. The agenda of mostly atheists here is to feign interest in science to sabotage the threads. That much is clear to me and now to others. In fact, I'm seeing a pattern in other religious threads too where atheists come to mock and derail topics even when it has nothing to do with science. I can only imagine they are bored in their lives and hate the feeling of being left out. Christmas, Thanksgiving, Hanukah, Easter, Eid, whatever your religious holidays are, must be lonely times for these atheists. So rather than create their own group, they work to try to break down our religious groups. It doesn't work to minimize our faith. All it does is make atheists a pain in the tush. We just have to learn to ignore them and continue to have conversations about religion. |