Is Dark Matter Where the Seven Heavens Lie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And we explained countless times that our belief is not based on science.

We are not discussing whether heaven exists. But this is what you atheists repeatedly try to discuss with us.

So there is no discussion. No believer is interested in engaging a cyclical argument over whether God or heaven exists. We know it does. Not up for discussion. Its foolish to keep revisiting this since we are not likely to change our belief system.

Atheists know full well that religious belief is not based on science. If you don't like what atheists say here, I suggest that you do not engage with them, instead of trying to throw them off the thread.

I'm not sure I buy OP's theory about dark matter, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy into there being seven heavens. I am religious, however.

But, the issue here is that some atheists are actively trying to derail OP's thread, while others might be well-intentioned but they're still effectively derailing instead of engaging OP.

Which is how it goes any time someone tries to discuss faith: ask a serious question about faith and a bunch of atheist scolds come on to tell us we shouldn't believe anything in the first place, and now we should all discuss baseline questions like whether heaven or God exists. Which is why so few people of faith engage on this forum.

Can we change this? Probably not. For a few (not all!) atheists, it's just too much fun (and their lives are clearly so devoid of family and hobbies) to derail with annoying nonsense. For the well-intentioned atheists, why is it too much to ask you to stop derailing threads like this one, and to start your own threads on the baseline questions about heaven's existence? If it intrigues you so much, why not hit "new topic" and go for it? I don't care about this particular thread that much, but I'd love to see this dynamic play out differently on threads I do care about.

"Clearly"? How could you possibly know this? And what is derailing -- disagreeing? offering another point of view?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And we explained countless times that our belief is not based on science.

We are not discussing whether heaven exists. But this is what you atheists repeatedly try to discuss with us.

So there is no discussion. No believer is interested in engaging a cyclical argument over whether God or heaven exists. We know it does. Not up for discussion. Its foolish to keep revisiting this since we are not likely to change our belief system.

Atheists know full well that religious belief is not based on science. If you don't like what atheists say here, I suggest that you do not engage with them, instead of trying to throw them off the thread.

I'm not sure I buy OP's theory about dark matter, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy into there being seven heavens. I am religious, however.

But, the issue here is that some atheists are actively trying to derail OP's thread, while others might be well-intentioned but they're still effectively derailing instead of engaging OP.

Which is how it goes any time someone tries to discuss faith: ask a serious question about faith and a bunch of atheist scolds come on to tell us we shouldn't believe anything in the first place, and now we should all discuss baseline questions like whether heaven or God exists. Which is why so few people of faith engage on this forum.

Can we change this? Probably not. For a few (not all!) atheists, it's just too much fun (and their lives are clearly so devoid of family and hobbies) to derail with annoying nonsense. For the well-intentioned atheists, why is it too much to ask you to stop derailing threads like this one, and to start your own threads on the baseline questions about heaven's existence? If it intrigues you so much, why not hit "new topic" and go for it? I don't care about this particular thread that much, but I'd love to see this dynamic play out differently on threads I do care about.

Or is that just how you take it when someone says something that challenges your beliefs instead of affirming them? I don't recall atheists telling believers they "shouldn't believe in anything" but rather saying they don't believe and giving reasons for it. That's quite different from telling people not to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And we explained countless times that our belief is not based on science.

We are not discussing whether heaven exists. But this is what you atheists repeatedly try to discuss with us.

So there is no discussion. No believer is interested in engaging a cyclical argument over whether God or heaven exists. We know it does. Not up for discussion. Its foolish to keep revisiting this since we are not likely to change our belief system.

Atheists know full well that religious belief is not based on science. If you don't like what atheists say here, I suggest that you do not engage with them, instead of trying to throw them off the thread.

I'm not sure I buy OP's theory about dark matter, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy into there being seven heavens. I am religious, however.

But, the issue here is that some atheists are actively trying to derail OP's thread, while others might be well-intentioned but they're still effectively derailing instead of engaging OP.

Which is how it goes any time someone tries to discuss faith: ask a serious question about faith and a bunch of atheist scolds come on to tell us we shouldn't believe anything in the first place, and now we should all discuss baseline questions like whether heaven or God exists. Which is why so few people of faith engage on this forum.

Can we change this? Probably not. For a few (not all!) atheists, it's just too much fun (and their lives are clearly so devoid of family and hobbies) to derail with annoying nonsense. For the well-intentioned atheists, why is it too much to ask you to stop derailing threads like this one, and to start your own threads on the baseline questions about heaven's existence? If it intrigues you so much, why not hit "new topic" and go for it? I don't care about this particular thread that much, but I'd love to see this dynamic play out differently on threads I do care about.

Or is that just how you take it when someone says something that challenges your beliefs instead of affirming them? I don't recall atheists telling believers they "shouldn't believe in anything" but rather saying they don't believe and giving reasons for it. That's quite different from telling people not to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And we explained countless times that our belief is not based on science.

We are not discussing whether heaven exists. But this is what you atheists repeatedly try to discuss with us.

So there is no discussion. No believer is interested in engaging a cyclical argument over whether God or heaven exists. We know it does. Not up for discussion. Its foolish to keep revisiting this since we are not likely to change our belief system.

Atheists know full well that religious belief is not based on science. If you don't like what atheists say here, I suggest that you do not engage with them, instead of trying to throw them off the thread.

I'm not sure I buy OP's theory about dark matter, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy into there being seven heavens. I am religious, however.

But, the issue here is that some atheists are actively trying to derail OP's thread, while others might be well-intentioned but they're still effectively derailing instead of engaging OP.

Which is how it goes any time someone tries to discuss faith: ask a serious question about faith and a bunch of atheist scolds come on to tell us we shouldn't believe anything in the first place, and now we should all discuss baseline questions like whether heaven or God exists. Which is why so few people of faith engage on this forum.

Can we change this? Probably not. For a few (not all!) atheists, it's just too much fun (and their lives are clearly so devoid of family and hobbies) to derail with annoying nonsense. For the well-intentioned atheists, why is it too much to ask you to stop derailing threads like this one, and to start your own threads on the baseline questions about heaven's existence? If it intrigues you so much, why not hit "new topic" and go for it? I don't care about this particular thread that much, but I'd love to see this dynamic play out differently on threads I do care about.

Or is that just how you take it when someone says something that challenges your beliefs instead of affirming them? I don't recall atheists telling believers they "shouldn't believe in anything" but rather saying they don't believe and giving reasons for it. That's quite different from telling people not to believe.

Don't pretend you aren't aware of the mockery at 21:52 on the first page of this thread, just for starters. Maybe that was you. Honesty, please!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And we explained countless times that our belief is not based on science.

We are not discussing whether heaven exists. But this is what you atheists repeatedly try to discuss with us.

So there is no discussion. No believer is interested in engaging a cyclical argument over whether God or heaven exists. We know it does. Not up for discussion. Its foolish to keep revisiting this since we are not likely to change our belief system.

Atheists know full well that religious belief is not based on science. If you don't like what atheists say here, I suggest that you do not engage with them, instead of trying to throw them off the thread.

I'm not sure I buy OP's theory about dark matter, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy into there being seven heavens. I am religious, however.

But, the issue here is that some atheists are actively trying to derail OP's thread, while others might be well-intentioned but they're still effectively derailing instead of engaging OP.

Which is how it goes any time someone tries to discuss faith: ask a serious question about faith and a bunch of atheist scolds come on to tell us we shouldn't believe anything in the first place, and now we should all discuss baseline questions like whether heaven or God exists. Which is why so few people of faith engage on this forum.

Can we change this? Probably not. For a few (not all!) atheists, it's just too much fun (and their lives are clearly so devoid of family and hobbies) to derail with annoying nonsense. For the well-intentioned atheists, why is it too much to ask you to stop derailing threads like this one, and to start your own threads on the baseline questions about heaven's existence? If it intrigues you so much, why not hit "new topic" and go for it? I don't care about this particular thread that much, but I'd love to see this dynamic play out differently on threads I do care about.

Or is that just how you take it when someone says something that challenges your beliefs instead of affirming them? I don't recall atheists telling believers they "shouldn't believe in anything" but rather saying they don't believe and giving reasons for it. That's quite different from telling people not to believe.

So you just want us to know you don't believe heaven is in dark matter? We got it. Now let others who do believe it discuss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It's just absurd for atheists to say because a topic of science is being discussed in relation to heaven, they have something relevant to add to this discourse. This topic is not about dark matter. It's about the possibility of heaven existing there. If one does not believe in heaven, why would you even post? It's the premise of the thread for goodness sake. If dark matter interests you, by all means click on new topic and start a purely scientific discussion on dark matter. The agenda of mostly atheists here is to feign interest in science to sabotage the threads. That much is clear to me and now to others. In fact, I'm seeing a pattern in other religious threads too where atheists come to mock and derail topics even when it has nothing to do with science. I can only imagine they are bored in their lives and hate the feeling of being left out. Christmas, Thanksgiving, Hanukah, Easter, Eid, whatever your religious holidays are, must be lonely times for these atheists. So rather than create their own group, they work to try to break down our religious groups. It doesn't work to minimize our faith. All it does is make atheists a pain in the tush. We just have to learn to ignore them and continue to have conversations about religion.

FYI - thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. Also, many atheists (like many religious people) celebrate the cultural aspects of religious holidays, without any religious observance. There are practicing Christians who don't go to church on Christmas because they prefer spending time opening presents with their families under the Christmas tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And we explained countless times that our belief is not based on science.

We are not discussing whether heaven exists. But this is what you atheists repeatedly try to discuss with us.

So there is no discussion. No believer is interested in engaging a cyclical argument over whether God or heaven exists. We know it does. Not up for discussion. Its foolish to keep revisiting this since we are not likely to change our belief system.

Atheists know full well that religious belief is not based on science. If you don't like what atheists say here, I suggest that you do not engage with them, instead of trying to throw them off the thread.

I'm not sure I buy OP's theory about dark matter, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy into there being seven heavens. I am religious, however.

But, the issue here is that some atheists are actively trying to derail OP's thread, while others might be well-intentioned but they're still effectively derailing instead of engaging OP.

Which is how it goes any time someone tries to discuss faith: ask a serious question about faith and a bunch of atheist scolds come on to tell us we shouldn't believe anything in the first place, and now we should all discuss baseline questions like whether heaven or God exists. Which is why so few people of faith engage on this forum.

Can we change this? Probably not. For a few (not all!) atheists, it's just too much fun (and their lives are clearly so devoid of family and hobbies) to derail with annoying nonsense. For the well-intentioned atheists, why is it too much to ask you to stop derailing threads like this one, and to start your own threads on the baseline questions about heaven's existence? If it intrigues you so much, why not hit "new topic" and go for it? I don't care about this particular thread that much, but I'd love to see this dynamic play out differently on threads I do care about.

Or is that just how you take it when someone says something that challenges your beliefs instead of affirming them? I don't recall atheists telling believers they "shouldn't believe in anything" but rather saying they don't believe and giving reasons for it. That's quite different from telling people not to believe.

So you just want us to know you don't believe heaven is in dark matter? We got it. Now let others who do believe it discuss.

So go ahead and discuss - just ignore posts you don't like

[Anonymous]

Message to atheists:

We know you don't believe in God or heaven or the afterlife. No need to restate the obvious. We aren't interested in engaging with you. We do not need science or any proof to believe. If we discuss science and its relation to religion, we do not need or want your input. Thus, your messages will be ignored from now on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And we explained countless times that our belief is not based on science.

We are not discussing whether heaven exists. But this is what you atheists repeatedly try to discuss with us.

So there is no discussion. No believer is interested in engaging a cyclical argument over whether God or heaven exists. We know it does. Not up for discussion. Its foolish to keep revisiting this since we are not likely to change our belief system.

Atheists know full well that religious belief is not based on science. If you don't like what atheists say here, I suggest that you do not engage with them, instead of trying to throw them off the thread.

I'm not sure I buy OP's theory about dark matter, and I'm pretty sure I don't buy into there being seven heavens. I am religious, however.

But, the issue here is that some atheists are actively trying to derail OP's thread, while others might be well-intentioned but they're still effectively derailing instead of engaging OP.

Which is how it goes any time someone tries to discuss faith: ask a serious question about faith and a bunch of atheist scolds come on to tell us we shouldn't believe anything in the first place, and now we should all discuss baseline questions like whether heaven or God exists. Which is why so few people of faith engage on this forum.

Can we change this? Probably not. For a few (not all!) atheists, it's just too much fun (and their lives are clearly so devoid of family and hobbies) to derail with annoying nonsense. For the well-intentioned atheists, why is it too much to ask you to stop derailing threads like this one, and to start your own threads on the baseline questions about heaven's existence? If it intrigues you so much, why not hit "new topic" and go for it? I don't care about this particular thread that much, but I'd love to see this dynamic play out differently on threads I do care about.

Or is that just how you take it when someone says something that challenges your beliefs instead of affirming them? I don't recall atheists telling believers they "shouldn't believe in anything" but rather saying they don't believe and giving reasons for it. That's quite different from telling people not to believe.

Don't pretend you aren't aware of the mockery at 21:52 on the first page of this thread, just for starters. Maybe that was you. Honesty, please!

Wasn't me, but perhaps you are a little oversensitive if you think saying "haha" with a smiley face is serious mockery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Message to atheists:

We know you don't believe in God or heaven or the afterlife. No need to restate the obvious. We aren't interested in engaging with you. We do not need science or any proof to believe. If we discuss science and its relation to religion, we do not need or want your input. Thus, your messages will be ignored from now on.

Good idea -- just ignore. I do wonder who "we" is, though -- if there a group of believers undersigning this or it just one person. Also, could be that there are a lot of believers already ignoring atheist posts (or other posts they disagree with) without making a blanket statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sorry we believers can not live up to your intellectual standard.

Is anyone in the religious forum wondering the same thing I am? Why are atheists on our threads that discuss religious questions? Are these threads inviting the atheist perspective if the question is about God or afterlife or Heaven? I would think not. So, why do atheists feel their view here is relevant to the topic??

I'm the pp, the above poster was referring to. I've already explained that I am religious, not an atheist. Yet, it seems it doesn't matter if someone has a religion or not. If it's not your religion or if it doesn't fit in with your beliefs then we shouldn't be posting.

So no other religions, no atheists, and no one that doesn't believe in your vision of heaven. Got it, but then this really should not be called the Religion forum. The Dogma forum for non-questioners seems more appropriate.

The Dogma forum for non-questioners -- brilliant. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

"So go ahead and discuss - just ignore posts you don't like"

You and the other atheists inundate the threads with your mocking posts or posts that take thread off track. It makes it harder to have a discussion. This is your intent, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sorry we believers can not live up to your intellectual standard.

Is anyone in the religious forum wondering the same thing I am? Why are atheists on our threads that discuss religious questions? Are these threads inviting the atheist perspective if the question is about God or afterlife or Heaven? I would think not. So, why do atheists feel their view here is relevant to the topic??

I'm the pp, the above poster was referring to. I've already explained that I am religious, not an atheist. Yet, it seems it doesn't matter if someone has a religion or not. If it's not your religion or if it doesn't fit in with your beliefs then we shouldn't be posting.

So no other religions, no atheists, and no one that doesn't believe in your vision of heaven. Got it, but then this really should not be called the Religion forum. The Dogma forum for non-questioners seems more appropriate.

The Dogma forum for non-questioners -- brilliant. Thanks.

Nah. Plenty of ppl can disagree for any reason. They can say they don't think heaven is in dark matter. They can say where they think heaven is. But this forum is not the place to say heaven doesn't exist or science doesn't support God. The thread presumes the existence of God and Heaven as evidenced by the title. You knew that. This is why religious folks are getting upset with the atheists now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's just absurd for atheists to say because a topic of science is being discussed in relation to heaven, they have something relevant to add to this discourse. This topic is not about dark matter. It's about the possibility of heaven existing there. If one does not believe in heaven, why would you even post? It's the premise of the thread for goodness sake. If dark matter interests you, by all means click on new topic and start a purely scientific discussion on dark matter. The agenda of mostly atheists here is to feign interest in science to sabotage the threads. That much is clear to me and now to others. In fact, I'm seeing a pattern in other religious threads too where atheists come to mock and derail topics even when it has nothing to do with science. I can only imagine they are bored in their lives and hate the feeling of being left out. Christmas, Thanksgiving, Hanukah, Easter, Eid, whatever your religious holidays are, must be lonely times for these atheists. So rather than create their own group, they work to try to break down our religious groups. It doesn't work to minimize our faith. All it does is make atheists a pain in the tush. We just have to learn to ignore them and continue to have conversations about religion.

FYI - thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. Also, many atheists (like many religious people) celebrate the cultural aspects of religious holidays, without any religious observance. There are practicing Christians who don't go to church on Christmas because they prefer spending time opening presents with their families under the Christmas tree.

Dunno how you convinced yourself that Christmas is purely a cultural holiday when the tree, exchanging of presents, everything about it except maybe the eggnog is based on christianity. But okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So sorry we believers can not live up to your intellectual standard.

Is anyone in the religious forum wondering the same thing I am? Why are atheists on our threads that discuss religious questions? Are these threads inviting the atheist perspective if the question is about God or afterlife or Heaven? I would think not. So, why do atheists feel their view here is relevant to the topic??

I'm the pp, the above poster was referring to. I've already explained that I am religious, not an atheist. Yet, it seems it doesn't matter if someone has a religion or not. If it's not your religion or if it doesn't fit in with your beliefs then we shouldn't be posting.

So no other religions, no atheists, and no one that doesn't believe in your vision of heaven. Got it, but then this really should not be called the Religion forum. The Dogma forum for non-questioners seems more appropriate.

The Dogma forum for non-questioners -- brilliant. Thanks.

Nah. Plenty of ppl can disagree for any reason. They can say they don't think heaven is in dark matter. They can say where they think heaven is. But this forum is not the place to say heaven doesn't exist or science doesn't support God. The thread presumes the existence of God and Heaven as evidenced by the title. You knew that. This is why religious folks are getting upset with the atheists now.

It was a religious person above who said this: "We do not need science or any proof to believe."

Also, on other forums, people disagree with each other a lot and not just about facts/beliefs but about opinions/analyses with little to go on. when "getting upset" with a group of people results in asking them to leave, or expecting them not to comment because they "knew" their comments would not be welcome, then it's no longer a forum.