Daughter and friend play dress up - in hajib

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[Post New]10/28/2010 09:41
Anonymous
LOL! I loved dressing up like that as a child! I used to pretend I was some princess of the desert It seemed so beautiful and mysterious to me at that time.... It is just pretend play OP.
[Post New]10/28/2010 09:42
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why would wearing a hijab/burqua offend your feminist sensibilities?


The only post I see that would start flames are ones like your's, PP. You are just begging for it so here goes...

Because they are demeaning to women. They make women second class citizens. They make it seem as if women have something to hide or be ashamed of that men do not. They are a means of keeping women oppressed andc controlled. They assist in keeping women physically inferior to men by diminshing natural physical abilities such as running. They allow abusive men to hide their crime. They create an over sexed and chauvanistic mentality toward all women by hiding the natural face and form of women.

Few Islamists made their wives and daughters wear these garments 50 (and more) years ago. Its a reflection of a growing fundamentalism in the Muslim world and demonstrates how humans, when confronted with certain external stresses, will turn on the most vulnerable populations to among them to make them feel more in control.


The hijab in itself shouldn't offend anyone, which is what I thought the PP was pointing out. You, on the other hand, only see one aspect of hijab's place in any particular culture. Yes, in some cultures, women are forced to wear it (Saudi, Afghanistan). In many, women have complete freedom to choose.
[Post New]10/28/2010 09:46
Anonymous
I view it as the Muslim equivalent of the WWJD bracelet or purity ring -- there might be some kids getting leaned on to do it, but it's essentially harmless. Probably more harm done by hassling hijab-wearers than by leaving it alone.

I do think for public documents like the driver's license you should have to reveal your face -- it shouldn't be a problem to have a woman photographer click the camera at the DMV, etc.

I guess we're just more comfortable with parents who lead similarly conservative Christian lives because we all know a few. They're also better behaved because Christianity is the "top dog" in this country.
[Post New]10/28/2010 09:49
zumbamama
Site Admin Offline
Didn't the Virgin Mary wear one too?
[Post New]10/28/2010 09:56
Anonymous
If it's only once or twice, OP, I wouldn't say anything. If it's many times that your DD is doing this, then I would gently steer her away from this. Muslim women who wear those are often told by their husbands to cover themselves and to wear very lose clothing. It's a form of control. If you are Muslim yourself, OP, and you think it's ok, then fine. But if you aren't Muslim then of course steer her away from this if she plays that many times.
[Post New]10/28/2010 10:02
Anonymous
My son dresses up like a stormtrooper. Should I be worried that he might invade a galaxy that is far, far, away?
[Post New]10/28/2010 10:03
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


The only post I see that would start flames are ones like your's, PP. You are just begging for it so here goes...

Because they are demeaning to women. They make women second class citizens. They make it seem as if women have something to hide or be ashamed of that men do not. They are a means of keeping women oppressed andc controlled. They assist in keeping women physically inferior to men by diminshing natural physical abilities such as running. They allow abusive men to hide their crime. They create an over sexed and chauvanistic mentality toward all women by hiding the natural face and form of women.

Few Islamists made their wives and daughters wear these garments 50 (and more) years ago. Its a reflection of a growing fundamentalism in the Muslim world and demonstrates how humans, when confronted with certain external stresses, will turn on the most vulnerable populations to among them to make them feel more in control.


Yes, thank you!
[Post New]10/28/2010 10:16
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:My son dresses up like a stormtrooper. Should I be worried that he might invade a galaxy that is far, far, away?


The difference is, your son is dressing up as something he sees on TV. Most kids over a certain age/maturity level understand the difference between cartoon/TV characters and real life.
[Post New]10/28/2010 10:24
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why would wearing a hijab/burqua offend your feminist sensibilities?


The only post I see that would start flames are ones like your's, PP. You are just begging for it so here goes...

Because they are demeaning to women. They make women second class citizens. They make it seem as if women have something to hide or be ashamed of that men do not. They are a means of keeping women oppressed andc controlled. They assist in keeping women physically inferior to men by diminshing natural physical abilities such as running. They allow abusive men to hide their crime. They create an over sexed and chauvanistic mentality toward all women by hiding the natural face and form of women.

Few Islamists made their wives and daughters wear these garments 50 (and more) years ago. Its a reflection of a growing fundamentalism in the Muslim world and demonstrates how humans, when confronted with certain external stresses, will turn on the most vulnerable populations to among them to make them feel more in control.


The hijab in itself shouldn't offend anyone, which is what I thought the PP was pointing out. You, on the other hand, only see one aspect of hijab's place in any particular culture. Yes, in some cultures, women are forced to wear it (Saudi, Afghanistan). In many, women have complete freedom to choose.


Yes, that is what they like to tell themsleves and supposed "ignorant bigots" like me. But, it is a choice compelled by messages and beliefs that men have created and crafted. The very basis of the idea that women (and only women) should hide their figure and/or face from others is steeped in chauvanistic and controlling male attitudes. It is based on the belief that women need "help" to be chaste, that one can only be a "good" woman if she is chaste and completely lacking any sign of her sex. That the "sex" of the female gender is to blame for men's bad behavior. That somehow, women are to blame for men's lack of control. That just by looking the way she was created she encourages men's baser nature. You find the same "male controll and blame of women" in the story of Adam and Eve and in the purification rituals of CLS (Mormons) and orthodox Jews.
[Post New]10/28/2010 10:27
Anonymous
Are you sure they really meant to wear hijab vs. just draping themselves in scarves? Either way, I don't see any concern. Dress-up is a great time for kids to explore other ways to be. It doesn't mean they will actually choose to be them in real life.
[Post New]10/28/2010 10:28
Anonymous
zumbamama wrote:Didn't the Virgin Mary wear one too?


Yes, she made a habit of it.
[Post New]10/28/2010 10:33
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why would wearing a hijab/burqua offend your feminist sensibilities?


The only post I see that would start flames are ones like your's, PP. You are just begging for it so here goes...

Because they are demeaning to women. They make women second class citizens. They make it seem as if women have something to hide or be ashamed of that men do not. They are a means of keeping women oppressed andc controlled. They assist in keeping women physically inferior to men by diminshing natural physical abilities such as running. They allow abusive men to hide their crime. They create an over sexed and chauvanistic mentality toward all women by hiding the natural face and form of women.

Few Islamists made their wives and daughters wear these garments 50 (and more) years ago. Its a reflection of a growing fundamentalism in the Muslim world and demonstrates how humans, when confronted with certain external stresses, will turn on the most vulnerable populations to among them to make them feel more in control.


The comment above is very typical of contemporary, non-Muslim, feminists in North America and Western Europe who cannot understand why many women might willingly take up the hijab.

I'm a professor of religion, a mother, and a feminist-- I would strongly suggest that you read Saba Mahmood, The Politics of Piety. It's an academic text, so a bit rough on the reading, but it provides a more nuanced understanding of why Muslim women wear the hijab and take up practices of modesty. More importantly, the author, who started off with notions of Muslim women like the PP, helps the reader to see her own preconceptions about women's agency, progressive politics, and Islam.
[Post New]10/28/2010 10:36
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why would wearing a hijab/burqua offend your feminist sensibilities?


The only post I see that would start flames are ones like your's, PP. You are just begging for it so here goes...

Because they are demeaning to women. They make women second class citizens. They make it seem as if women have something to hide or be ashamed of that men do not. They are a means of keeping women oppressed andc controlled. They assist in keeping women physically inferior to men by diminshing natural physical abilities such as running. They allow abusive men to hide their crime. They create an over sexed and chauvanistic mentality toward all women by hiding the natural face and form of women.

Few Islamists made their wives and daughters wear these garments 50 (and more) years ago. Its a reflection of a growing fundamentalism in the Muslim world and demonstrates how humans, when confronted with certain external stresses, will turn on the most vulnerable populations to among them to make them feel more in control.


Your argument fails in that you are lumping all Muslims together. Just as in Christianity there is a huge variety. I know and work with a lot of Muslims. Also, there are some countries where the men cover their hair and wear the loose fitting garments. Things aren't nearly as cut and dry as some people would like to believe.
[Post New]10/28/2010 10:38
Anonymous
"But, it is a choice compelled by messages and beliefs that men have created and crafted. The very basis of the idea that women (and only women) should hide their figure and/or face from others is steeped in chauvanistic and controlling male attitudes."

This is false. Do you know any Muslims?

[Post New]10/28/2010 10:38
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Are you sure they really meant to wear hijab vs. just draping themselves in scarves? Either way, I don't see any concern. Dress-up is a great time for kids to explore other ways to be. It doesn't mean they will actually choose to be them in real life.


OP here. Yes, I am sure. And I know that dressing up as anything doesn't mean one will become that thing/person. Just that she would so innocently slip on what to me is a symbol of female oppression, as another poster articulated so well. It was a cringe worthy moment for me. I kept my mouth shut and my prejudice to myself, however. I recognize that my visceral reaction is not one to be proud of.

You have to understand, in my house when we talk about God, we use the pronoun, "She". I am not a Christian.

I also do cringe at the whole Cinderella/Snow White/Disney thing. I'm very relieved that my child is becoming more interested in books than TV and I'm giving her lots of "girl power" stuff to read.
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