Daughter and friend play dress up - in hajib

[Anonymous]

My daughter attends a home daycare and the provider is Muslim. She does not wear a hijab but her mother does. My daughter has recently started to play dress up by putting scarves around her head. Its just pretend play and it doesn't bother me at all.

[Anonymous]

OP. I understand your reaction especially when I assume she's never seen you dressed like that. I come from a country that has seen a lot of religious conflicts between christians and moslems. I am Christian and have moslem friends back in my country of origin. Once in a while, I use my scarf to make a hijab when I'm having a bad hair day. If my daughter plays dress up with a hijab to look like mommy, I would not mind. But if she was playing dress up to look like the women she sees on TV (hajib and Caftan ), I would not encourage it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Im a Muslim with many aunts that cover up like the above picture. As much as would love to say my aunts are modest and religious I know for sure that that in not 100% of the reason some of them cover up. Some just do it bc they have gone gray, lost some hair and dont feel like dealing with it anymore. I think since covering up is the social norm in the middle east, they have just gone for it more so than to be modest.

NP here. This kind of brings me to a point I think hasn't been expressly stated here. In our culture, women typically wear much more revealing, form-fitting clothes than men. Look at evening wear and even business clothes-- do you ever see your male colleagues' legs from the knee down? And no one wants the groom in a strapless costume to match the bride's, etc. This "freedom" to show our bodies also puts a lot of pressure on us to conform to the preferences of the male gaze, and I think benefits the males who gaze much more than it ever benefits us.

Sure, we're allowed to select less revealing or restrictive clothing, and it's good to have some measure of choice, but there's a social cost (less "professional" appearance, the dreaded allegation of frump) if we cover up because we don't feel like agonizing over skin smoothness/ flesh firmness/ appropriately augmented pigmentation... and yes, the meticulous covering of grays. It's really so that men won't find anything that disgusts them when they look at us. We need to be on display, but completely sanitized. I've never understood how this is a victory for feminism and think it might actually be better to dress in a way that says, "None of your damn business."

[Anonymous]

Ironically, this is why American women and girls (look at celebrities) dress like whores and gyrate on poles when they're 15.

Oh PUH LEEZ! You have really gone off the deep end here, PP. And to the moron who accused me of not liking women (which wasn't worthy of a reply), here is a real woman hater. PP is calling all American women whores. Lovely.

First, there is no correlation to my statements you quoted and whore/strippers on poles. Second, one a very small percentage of women in this country are prosititues or pole dance, probably about the same percentage of the female population as do in countries such as Saudi Arabia or UAE actually. They have "female entertainment" there, too.

[Anonymous]

This is a Hijab:


Uncomfortable, huh?

This is our G-rated, Disney-approved version of acceptable muslim attire:


Are these extremists on the watch list?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4y9fiSSWn-0/ScpHZXqQuSI/AAAAAAAAAbk/tQtSqPSvsCA/s400/She%27s+in+Vogue.jpg

This is a fun summer fashion accessory:


This is the Virgin Mary:


This is Mother Teresa:


These are immigrants coming into Ellis Island:


Here is a former head of state:


Here is another former head of state. Can you tell which of the two is the Muslim?


A head of state with the Gipper. Can you name which Islamic Republic she presided over? Do you think he felt threatened?
[img]

This is a wedding dress:

[Anonymous]

How do you feel about Orthodox Jews having to cover their heads? Granted, many wear wigs, so does that make it less offensive to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im a Muslim with many aunts that cover up like the above picture. As much as would love to say my aunts are modest and religious I know for sure that that in not 100% of the reason some of them cover up. Some just do it bc they have gone gray, lost some hair and dont feel like dealing with it anymore. I think since covering up is the social norm in the middle east, they have just gone for it more so than to be modest.

NP here. This kind of brings me to a point I think hasn't been expressly stated here. In our culture, women typically wear much more revealing, form-fitting clothes than men. Look at evening wear and even business clothes-- do you ever see your male colleagues' legs from the knee down? And no one wants the groom in a strapless costume to match the bride's, etc. This "freedom" to show our bodies also puts a lot of pressure on us to conform to the preferences of the male gaze, and I think benefits the males who gaze much more than it ever benefits us.

Sure, we're allowed to select less revealing or restrictive clothing, and it's good to have some measure of choice, but there's a social cost (less "professional" appearance, the dreaded allegation of frump) if we cover up because we don't feel like agonizing over skin smoothness/ flesh firmness/ appropriately augmented pigmentation... and yes, the meticulous covering of grays. It's really so that men won't find anything that disgusts them when they look at us. We need to be on display, but completely sanitized. I've never understood how this is a victory for feminism and think it might actually be better to dress in a way that says, "None of your damn business."

Actually, I think Western women do this more to show off to each other than to men. Many Muslim women undergo this same type of grooming too, and spend a fortune on clothes whether Chanel suits for the older set or Juicy Couture for the younger. You just dont see it in public because of their religious garb.

[Anonymous]

13:52 - yours was the most thought provoking comment in this thread. Kudos to you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you feel about Orthodox Jews having to cover their heads? Granted, many wear wigs, so does that make it less offensive to you?

Orthodox Judiaism has many more serious gender relations problems than just who covers their heads. Read Leviticus. Ritual uncleanliness because of menstruation.... child birth.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niddah

Any religious distinction between the sexes that denigrates one, whether through ritual, segregation, or dress, is offensive to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ironically, this is why American women and girls (look at celebrities) dress like whores and gyrate on poles when they're 15.

Oh PUH LEEZ! You have really gone off the deep end here, PP. And to the moron who accused me of not liking women (which wasn't worthy of a reply), here is a real woman hater. PP is calling all American women whores. Lovely.

First, there is no correlation to my statements you quoted and whore/strippers on poles. Second, one a very small percentage of women in this country are prosititues or pole dance, probably about the same percentage of the female population as do in countries such as Saudi Arabia or UAE actually. They have "female entertainment" there, too.

You questioned a woman's ability to think for herself. The PP denigrated a woman's right to express her sexuality as she chooses. I think your insult is worse.

[Anonymous]

To the poster who gave us all the love photos and pictures: This is an artist's image of what the Virgin Mary wore and looked like. Sister Theresa was a nun, in a religious order, and dressed as a member of that order. Margaret Thatcher was preserving her Coiffure and would have taken the scraf off the minute she was inside. Of course I know who both Benazir Bhutto (Pakistani) and Indira Ghandi (India) were and they are both dressed appropriately for their culture/country and age at the time. jasmine from Alladin's lamp is most certainly NOT America's version of a Muslim woman, it is Walt Disney's version of a Arabian Princess whicu is difefrent and a cartyoon character in a fairy tale story with a magic genii for goodness sake. The model in the Hijab has a pretty face with a bit too much make-up for my taste but where the hell is her hair and why does she have such "Western" features?? The model in the summer accessory hair twist is actually showing quite a lot of her hair and nothing about the way she is attired would be considered appropriate by the Islamic religious police. Lastly, the most immigrants that went though Ellis Island were peasants and this was the style at the time, not a form of oppression or masking of feminine wiles. Likely it was also a way to decrease the liklihood of lice infestation during the long trip here. Ellis Island operated from 1892 to about 1924, with 1907 being the peak year. Quite a while ago and fashions change, PP.

Not a single photographic or artistic image you provided proves anything other than that you like clip art.

[Anonymous]

I was in a nativity play when I was a kid and went on to dress up like the Virgin Mary for the next several months. I think there was something about having a blanket on my head that was comforting and it was fun to parade around in a flowing robe. I'm dating myself here but lots of my friends also loved dressing up as Genie as in "I dream of Genie".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who gave us all the love photos and pictures: This is an artist's image of what the Virgin Mary wore and looked like. Sister Theresa was a nun, in a religious order, and dressed as a member of that order. Margaret Thatcher was preserving her Coiffure and would have taken the scraf off the minute she was inside. Of course I know who both Benazir Bhutto (Pakistani) and Indira Ghandi (India) were and they are both dressed appropriately for their culture/country and age at the time. jasmine from Alladin's lamp is most certainly NOT America's version of a Muslim woman, it is Walt Disney's version of a Arabian Princess whicu is difefrent and a cartyoon character in a fairy tale story with a magic genii for goodness sake. The model in the Hijab has a pretty face with a bit too much make-up for my taste but where the hell is her hair and why does she have such "Western" features?? The model in the summer accessory hair twist is actually showing quite a lot of her hair and nothing about the way she is attired would be considered appropriate by the Islamic religious police. Lastly, the most immigrants that went though Ellis Island were peasants and this was the style at the time, not a form of oppression or masking of feminine wiles. Likely it was also a way to decrease the liklihood of lice infestation during the long trip here. Ellis Island operated from 1892 to about 1924, with 1907 being the peak year. Quite a while ago and fashions change, PP.

Not a single photographic or artistic image you provided proves anything other than that you like clip art.

I'm not 13:52, but what is wrong with being covered, and having American features? I'm an American- Muslim, originally from California. I have NEVER lived anywhere but the U.S. Every Muslim woman I know takes off her hijab when she is inside her home too.
My family isn't from the Middle East. My husband is a black man, who's family has only lived in DC. He doesn't force me to wear hijab. He doesn't force me to dress modestly.
@13:52 Thank you.

[Anonymous]

I resent anyone calling me a second class citizen because I wear hijab. I wish someone would say that to my face. This second class citizen would have a few choice words for them ( possibly a hand gesture too)

[Anonymous]

Very nice pictoral lesson, 13:52!

(And 14:20, you just reinforced the point that there are lots of reasons why people might wear scarves over their heads, from avoiding lice to protecting their hairdo to religious reasons. Thus, it's incorrect to assume that any woman with a head covering is the victim of an oppressive, sexist culture or religion.)